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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read some other say they bought the Omni S12 recently at Tweeter. I saw it today and heard it briefly. I must say I was impressed, but I've been reading so much about the SVS PB10. I have no more than $400 to spend, and at Tweeter I can actually walk out (I think) with the Omni for $360, no tax. I've never heard the SVS.


My room is 14'x21'x7'6, with a stairway to the 1st floor providing a bit larger space.


Once I am already spending basically $400, is it foolish not to get the much acclaimed SVS PB10?
 

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Well I got the Mirage, haven't heard the SVS so I can not compare it but in a family room about the same size as your room on the ground floor of a split level the Mirage rocks. I mean I have to go upstairs soon and re-secure everything to the walls, it sounds so nice. I picked it up the other day for 499 but since it went on sale I went back and they price matched down to the same price as you can get. I really thing the Mirage is a great deal at less than $400. Of course you are the only one who can determine what sounds best to your ears in your room. Tweeter has a 30 day return policy with no restocking fee, don't know about SVS. I would say if you liked the sub at the store, try it out at home, maybe if SVS has an easy return policy order that one too and try it out. Best of luck to you!!!
 

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I own an Omni S-12. The only way you will regret buying the Omni is if you later also buy an SVS, use it in your system and decide that it is a better product than the Omni.


I was debating buying an SVS, but since the first moment I listened to the Omni in my HT system, I have not had a second thought about it. Very good sub, especially for the price at Tweeter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well I bought the Omni S12 from Tweeter - $359.99 out the door!

(they are having a customer appreication sale, 20% off for this item, plus I had a new mover coupon for 10% off, plus no tax weekend!)


I have to say so far I am impressed.


However, I will say that on the Darla taps the glass scene in Finding Nemo, the sub just can't do it. It sounds horrible. The Velodyne DLS sub they had at Tweeter on the same scene sounded much more controlled.

BUT, the SVS would have been 31% more $, and frankly I don't think I would get 31% more enjoyment out of it. Theres always going to be better stuff out there, I've got to stop somewhere or I will be broke!


Also, I figured if for some reason it completely disappoints, Tweeter has a 30 day return policy, so I figured why not.
 

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I do not think the SVS is a better sub based on casual listening to the PB10. I would choose the S12 just due to form factor for my needs, even thought it costs more where I live.


However, if you intend to upgrade, the SVS might be easier to resell based on the popularity of them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive
I do not think the SVS is a better sub based on casual listening to the PB10. I would choose the S12 just due to form factor for my needs, even thought it costs more where I live.


However, if you intend to upgrade, the SVS might be easier to resell based on the popularity of them.
Hey sorry for bringing this up from the dead, but did anyone else have trouble w/ the "darla taps" scene from Finding Nemo w/ the Mirage S12?
 

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Im thinking its a setup/placement issue strictly because my 10" velo doesn't struggle in this scene although i never listen at reference level... It was pretty loud though. Wouldn't be able to tell you what level of gain it was at because of the digital poopy volume control :p If anyone else has trouble with this scene, please elaborate. Did it sound distorted?
 

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That scene shouldn't be a struggle for any sub that will do 25hz cleanly. I've listened to it quite a bit, with the Velo, Cadence, PB10, 20-39+ and a DIY Tempest 15. They each got everything, the only difference being definition on the more expensive subs.
 

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I just did that scene with my Velodyne CHT-10 that is only rated down to 28hz. At reference level, I was able to get about 95db. It sounded pretty good but I think I was missing a bit being it only goes down to 28hz.

I have a S12 on the way from Vann's and I am expecting to get much more out of that then the CHT-10
 

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OK, that's very reassuring. I was thrown off a bit by lsp79 saying that scene sounded "horrible" on the Mirage S12.


I'm leaning heavily towards the Mirage S12 + BFD for $500 now. I figure I can get more enjoyment that way rather than buying the more expensive PB10 and no PEQ for almost the same price.
 

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I have a Mirage S12, hooked up to an HK 635, with Ascend 340s on the front. I just popped the Dorla scene in. I think it sounds pretty good (I have a 9800cu ft room). I wouldn't say it shakes the room, but then again, I only have the sub vol at about a 1\\4, and I don't want the bass to overpower everything else (not to mention, i haven't tweaked my system yet, to find the best placement for the sub). I am also not an audiophile, nor do I play one on TV, so take my comments with a grain of salt... If you are happy with it, that is all that matters...
 

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I'm having a really hard time deciding between these two...I was all set to get the PB10 but after read this and a few other threads regarding the two I'm still undecided.


S12 vs. PB10

Saw the S12 yesterday at Tweeter.com for $369 free shipping..now it's out of stock.. :mad: ...rep doesn't know if it'll be back in stock or not. I kinda get the idea that this model is being discontinued??? Anyone know if that's true? That's a definite negative for me if it is because it makes the item that much more obscure later on..

I like the fact that it has more connection options and has the crossover pot on it which the PB10 doesn't have plus the level, phase and crossover controls are on the front for easy access. Other plusses are that it's listed at half off and that it might be slightly better for music than the PB10 which I'll be using it more for...70% music vs 30% movies. I've heard the PB10 can be a little muddy for music due to it's super low tuning response??

The plusses for the PB10 are the very high number of satisfied customers and it's popularity and SVS's track record as one of the top of the line sub manufacturers in the US...I believe Mirage is Canadian which is no biggie unless a warranty issue came up..then it might be more of a hassle?

Anyway, I'm a complete noob at all of this so any help pushing me one way or the other would be appreciated as I really want to order one or the other this weekend.
 

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If a sub like the S12 sounds bad, boomy, distorted, or anything else, it's time to spring for Avia and an SPL meter (hooked to a camera tripod on the couch) and spend a Saturday readiing up online and calibrating the speakers, sub, getting the placement and phase of the sub down, balancing levels across all speakers, etc. (And you can spend the next day using Avia to calibrate your display as well).


If you have a nice sub like the S12 and care about how it sounds enough to be on AVS, there's no reason to not have a meter and Avia.
 

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I wrote a long, detailed response, cold_fusion, then managed to zap it. :eek:


I'm not up to starting over, so I'll just give you the bottom line: you won't go wrong with either. Both are excellent products. Both have well satisfied owners.


I'm a very happy SVS customer (16-46 PC+), but at it's current price, the Mirage is a great value, and I have a friend who is extremely pleased with his. It's the way to go if you are using a stereo receiver, as the PB10 is designed to work with HT receivers. Otherwise it's a matter of taste.


While the Mirage has a reputation as "musical," my SVS (tuned to 12 Hz!) does an excellent job on music, so I'm confident you'll like the SVS's performance. The SVS may go a bit deeper, the Mirage a little louder. The differences are small.


Price could be the determining factor, but SVS has some B-Stock PB10's right now, so that narrows the difference. SVS has customer service that is nearly unbelievable in this era, if that is important to you. It made a difference to me.


As I said, though, you can't go wrong. If all else fails, maybe you should flip a coin. ;)
 

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I hope someone from the Bay Area picks one of these S12s up. I've heard the PB10 and find it an unbelievable sub for HT, as well as, music. If the Mirage is that close, I want to hear it.
 

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Macfan, dang sorry you zapped your post..I bet it was full of juicy info that would be helpful but thanks for the abrieviated version. Your advise is quite sound...if it comes down to the deeper lows vs louder thing, I'd have to choose the PB10 for the extra lows as I would think that louder would just overpower my other speakers with too much bass...my main goal is to acheive well intergated bass that's tight, fast, and clean sounding on music and also give that subsonic punch in movies which I'm sure both will do quite adequately.

I have a Panny XR55 that has Xover settings for 80,100, 120, and 150 so I can set the xover with the reciever but I'd still like to have one on the sub as well...that's probablly my main niggle with the PB10 plus I find the occasional threads here and on the other forums that go something like "Help..Just got PB10...doesn't sound right" ..a little disconcerting.. If I'm going to spend upwards of $400 to $500 on a sub, then I'm going to want to be gobsmacked the minute I plug it in.

I'm beginning to realize that there's a lot more to setting up a sub than just plugging it in a making a few level adjustment if you want to do it right so as per cyberbri's suggestions I will get the Avia disc and the SPL meter from Radio Shack for tweaking the sound levels.

So I guess so far it's 2-0 in favor of the PB10...come on S12 owners...I need some feedback from your side..... :D ..my current work is taking me out of town Mon. thru Thurs.....so I need to order today so I can get it by next weekend...and I've gone over a month now with my Panny XR55 and Athena AS-B1/C1 with no sub!!!
 

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cold_fusion, I do not think you will go wrong with either sub. I'm of course biased as I chose the S12 over the PB10 when I bought mine (I paid MORE for my S12 than the PB10)


The main reason in my case is that I got to try the S12 with my own ears and it sounded great (and I'm very picky about loose distorted bass), so I went with the known quantity.


And you are right, there is a LOT more to setting up the sub. I am comtemplating buying the $600 Velodyne SMS-1 EQ system, because the room I have my sub in is the pits. This will make a bigger difference in getting good sound than any SVS vs Mirage vs anything else decision. In the end, it is the ROOM interactions that determine the sound quality of ANY sub you buy.
 

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Hey thanks for the reply warpdrive....can you explain why your room is the pits? ...is it too large for the S12 or something...I have a 12X20X8 room for my HT with the back 1/3 separated from the sitting area as there's a fireplace on this wall. How important is the reciever and the main/rear speakers in this sub equation? I'm a little scared my little Athena bookshelf speakers might be overpowered by the the sub if I get one too big...I know you can turn the level of the sub down to compensate but don't you have to turn the sub level up to a certain range for it to sound right/good and be well balanced with your surround speakers and recievers power levels?
 

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The room is the pits because of the phenomenon called "standing waves". Basically, in the room, there will be areas where the bass is doubly reinforced and places where the bass response dips due to cancellation waves. Just turning down the sub volume doesn't solve the problem, because it turns down every frequency, not just the ones that are causing the problem. Hence, the need for solutions like the SMS-1 (after you have tried everything else within reason)


Sometimes moving the sub around can reduce those effects in the room, and using acoustical solutions called "bass traps" can reduce the problem, but the problem is real in many rooms.


You'll see that people resort to techniques called "the crawl test" to help find the best place in the room.


This has really nothing to do with the other speakers or receiver you have. It has to do with room acoustics, and will affect every unequalized sub the same whether it be a $10000 one or a $400 one.


Properly configured, the S12 will sound VERY good, in thought it was definitely in the league of the PB10 if not better. But people who are looking at the specs and stressing over +/- 1dB differences is worried about the wrong thing....it's like stressing over which car to buy because one car goes from 0-60 0.2 seconds faster. That's a difference that doesn't matter in the real world. The S12 will work just as well with your Athenas as any other sub, and if it doesn't, it's not because it's too big, it's because your room acoustics are causing problems.


here's some general tips that are helpful
http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm



If you have a sound meter you can measure how bad your room is with your sub:
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

That graph they have looks a little bit like mine, the graph sound be flat, but it looks like the Rocky Mountains..


So....in answer to which sub, I think either will be a good fit with your system, there is nothing inherent in either sub that will make it "overwhelming" for your system.


One other thing I did was buy a Auralex Subdude...this isolation platform helps reduce the interaction of the sub with my weak wood floor. It helps a great deal and makes the sound a lot tighter.
 

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cold_fusion, don't confuse the ability to play loud with "overwhelming" your other speakers. Avoiding the latter is one of the principle reasons to calibrate with an SPL meter. Most of us will set our subwoofers too "hot" if we do it by ear. Properly calibrated, the S12 (or any other good sub) will not overwhelm the rest of your setup. "Louder" will let it keep up in a larger room, however, especially on instantaneous peaks. Many people consider extra head room to be as important as deeper extension, although I opted for the latter (I have my SVS 16-46 PC+ tuned to 12 Hz).


warpdrive is absolutely correct. Your room (and your calibrations) will make more difference than is inherent to these two fine subwoofers. (I was going to go on, but I just saw the interchange between you and warpdrive, so I'll quit now as he covered it better than I would have.)


A minor point in favor of the SR12 not mentioned so far is its cosmetic advantage. It looks like an $800 subwoofer, while the PD10 is pretty much a basic black box. Not a big deal to most of us (no sub is exactly an objet d'art), but in case WAF is involved, it's worth noting.


Whichever you choose, try not to look back. You will have a very fine subwoofer. ;)
 
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