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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok...so I am like the rest of you and have been reading on this forum about how the Mits HDMI input converts to analog first then back to digital. I believe that would be a good high level summary of what is happening.


So my question is this...Does this mean that with my Denon DVD5900 and Voom satellite box I theoretically will not have a better picture than if I used the component input with both?


I ask because if HDMI on the Mits can in real world applications make PQ better with the appropriate tweaking, I will then invest in HDMI to DVI cables and possibly even a DVI switch. If not, I will save my money and enjoy my already spectacular Voom component picture and pull out my component cables in storage for my DVD5900.


I just do not fully understand the implications tied to the Mit's signal conversions and would like to hear your more expert views.
 

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From what I understand, HDMI like DVI is an all digital connection. No A/D conversion is needed. For example, if you had STB connected to your DLP via HDMI no A/D or D/A is taking place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Auditor55........Believe it or not, in other general Mits xx525/725 threads posters are saying they are certain that there is a D/A/D conversion in the Mits DLPs HDMI input.


If this is true does it make the HDMI input better, worse or the same in terms of PQ only as compared to component??


I know I can look at the two inputs separately with my own eyes but I want to know if there is a factual difference electronically.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by coolstrategist
Auditor55........Believe it or not, in other general Mits xx525/725 threads posters are saying they are certain that there is a D/A/D conversion in the Mits DLPs HDMI input.


If this is true does it make the HDMI input better, worse or the same in terms of PQ only as compared to component??


I know I can look at the two inputs separately with my own eyes but I want to know if there is a factual difference electronically.


I have to read some of those threads to find out what they are saying. Again, HDMI like DVI is an all digital connection. Anyway I've always been very skeptical about seeing PQ differences between component and HDMI/DVI. I think the adoption of HDMI/DVI have a lot to do with copy protection and very little do with PQ improvements.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by coolstrategist
Auditor55........Believe it or not, in other general Mits xx525/725 threads posters are saying they are certain that there is a D/A/D conversion in the Mits DLPs HDMI input.


If this is true does it make the HDMI input better, worse or the same in terms of PQ only as compared to component??


I know I can look at the two inputs separately with my own eyes but I want to know if there is a factual difference electronically.
You need to test each device to know which output type is best. It is true though that the Mits converts HDMI to analog as soon as it hits the TV.
 

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Anyone know WHY vendors do this? (Digital to analog and back to digital)


Maybe it's because a lot of the fancy processing options (noise reduction, edge enhancement, etc) are done most easily on analog signals.


A pure digital path seems to be considered "better", but how many vendors actually offer it, and does it really make a difference for video?
 

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It's fairly simple to have a single path to the imager (the DMD in this case and the related chipset). And it's also common for a company like Mitsubishi to have a single interface "kit" (even if there are different ports, it can be the same base kit) for things like their CRT TVs and their digitals. Add in that CRTs are inherently analog.


Put the whole thing together and it's just the case that there is no "parts bin" for an all-digital path into the DLP at this time. I suspect they will engineer such a thing in the next generation of sets.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So if this question of the Mits HDMI D/A/D conversion is true does that make the Mits HDMI input exactly like the component input? Are the respective signals "coming out" in the same format/resolution.


And is it true beyond a doubt that this is happening in these new sets?


Excuse my non-technical description.
 

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I can only add from my own experience - I fully planned to purchase a new "upconverting" DVD player for my Mits. But when I hooked-up my 2 year old 480i player via Component, I was shocked by the great PQ. I'll save my $$'s for HD-DVD (or whatever wins the battle) in a few years.


If I were in your shoes, I would buy 1 cable and try it on both devices to see if there is any noticable improvement.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by one504
I can only add from my own experience - I fully planned to purchase a new "upconverting" DVD player for my Mits. But when I hooked-up my 2 year old 480i player via Component, I was shocked by the great PQ. I'll save my $$'s for HD-DVD (or whatever wins the battle) in a few years.


If I were in your shoes, I would buy 1 cable and try it on both devices to see if there is any noticable improvement.
No expert here, but have VOOM and 62525 and 1910. Was disappointed to not see any improvement in so-called upconversion of DVD source via the player. STB via component with HD content is stunning, but 1910 PQ looks same either upconverting over DVI adapter/HDMI cable or through component.


I ended up running STB via component and player via DVI, so it is "upconverting" (to 62525's 720P native source, I know) FWIW.


Would have stuck with old 480P player, except it was freezing up (and 1910 looks match 3805, for WAF).


Anyone who says that DVDs should look "HD like," please tell me what I am doing wrong, thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Stu in CA
No expert here, but have VOOM and 62525 and 1910. Was disappointed to not see any improvement in so-called upconversion of DVD source via the player. STB via component with HD content is stunning, but 1910 PQ looks same either upconverting over DVI adapter/HDMI cable or through component.


I ended up running STB via component and player via DVI, so it is "upconverting" (to 62525's 720P native source, I know) FWIW.


Would have stuck with old 480P player, except it was freezing up (and 1910 looks match 3805, for WAF).


Anyone who says that DVDs should look "HD like," please tell me what I am doing wrong, thanks!
Stu,


Your thoughts are what I am getting at because I had the same experience with Voom and my Denon dvd5900.


We all know we can "see what looks best to our eyes". We get that.


But what some of us would like to know is this: When it comes to S-video, composite, component, dvi, and hdmi, most users here would technically and factually (ability to prove) rank these inputs in terms of their sheer ABILITY to produce good PQ. So....Given the D/A/D conversion by the Mits hdmi input does this internal conversion somehow factually put the PQ on equal footing with component. Or to use Stu's words "what are we doing wrong". Should the Mits 62725 hdmi input be able to be tweaked to provide improved PQ over component or does the conversion reduce any advantage this input should have?


I still do not think we have an answer.


I have seen the PQ via dvi output on my Samsung 61" DLP and it is clearly better than component without additional tweaking. I was very surprised when my Mits 62725 arrived and I did not see that difference through hdmi vs. component.


Come on tech guys....
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by coolstrategist Should the Mits 62725 hdmi input be able to be tweaked to provide improved PQ over component or does the conversion reduce any advantage this input should have?
It all depends on the quality of the component output (and cabling) of your source vs. the quality of the D/A convertor in the HDMI chain of the set. In most cases, I doubt any of us could tell a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Marc. I follow your thought.


Is this an issue that should concern me as a consumer? In other words, is it reasonable to expect that when I buy a 2004 DLP with hdmi out that the signal remains digital without any conversion (maintaining the expected PQ benefit of the input in addition to audio) or am I expecting too much?


And if Mits came out with a DLP in January with a true digital hdmi would you want it because you would expect better PQ?


Obviously you would test it, but just a hypothetical question based on your experienced expectations. I have the option of upgrading in the next six months if Mits has something improved.


And by the way as I said before...I love my current component and hdmi picture!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Does it even make sense to buy the new Denon dvd 5910 for hdmi use if the Mits 62725 converts hdmi to analog?


Will I be using the Denon's DACs or the Mits if I use component?


Will this then improve PQ over hdmi if I am using the Denon DACs via component?


I currently have the Denon dvd 5900. And I and others are wondering the same thing regarding the value of upconverting players on the new Mits dlps via hdmi or other inputs.


Any thoughts?
 

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In an unofficial test, I asked my daughter which picture was better and I toggled DVI/HDMI and component back and forth from the Samsung 360 direct TV receiver to the 725. All other settings equal. She picked the DVI connection.


Personally, I could perceive a slight difference, but, I could not definatively conclude that the digital connection was better.


I noted a couple of posts on this board that there were problems getting a cable and connection to the HDMI port that produced a clean signal without interference. I also had to return my first Monster cable for another that did not cause static/noise. So, considering the hassle factor of getting a good DVI/HDMI cable that works with the set, I would recommend to others to just use the component.
 

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I had a few engineers here at work look at the diagram in question. They said there is not enough information on that schematic to tell for sure if the D>A>D conversion is actually happening. Anyone have a connection at Mitsubishi? I want to know the answer to this as I'm about to drop 4k on equipment that I don't believe will benefit me if this is fact...


-robert
 
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