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It was announced today that Mits. will start shipping their new WD65000 DLP 65" RPTV next week. unfortunately they have raised the price by 50% to a suggested retail of $15,000. Who said HDTV's were getting cheaper?


In other news, their new DirecTV HD STB should begin shipping bewteen the middle and the end of September with a suggested retail of $799.


Lee

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by LeeAntin:
It was announced today that Mits. will start shipping their new WD65000 DLP 65" RPTV next week. unfortunately they have raised the price by 50% to a suggested retail of $15,000. Who said HDTV's were getting cheaper?


In other news, their new DirecTV HD STB should begin shipping bewteen the middle and the end of September with a suggested retail of $799.
Don't you understand? It costs $4,200 to put an $800 tuner inside?


Boy, I sure am liking my $3600 WS-65807 more now!


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I am really looking forward to seeing this DLP based RPTV. Seeing it next to a CRT based unit selling for much less should be interesting. Since the DLP TV has a known fixed resolution of 1280x720, it shouldn't be as sharp as a standard CRT based unit. At least, that's the conventional "wisdom". If it doesn't look significently better then the cheaper CRT HDTVs who would buy it? I am sure it will be considerably brighter then the CRT types, but $15,000 worth? If it looks sharper then the CRT sets that would bring into question all the resolution claims for them.


Frank
 

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RW,


I found this on Twice,"but with a retail sticker price of $15,000 — 50 percent higher than the company originally stated."


"Robert Perry, Mitsubishi's director of marketing, said the company had erred in May and set the initial price to low to make a profit."


My question is what the hell does this next statement mean??


"We will continue with our set top box practice until we feel the technology for the next step is ready — and we believe we are almost there," Perry said.



trevor
 

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Quote:
My question is what the hell does this next statement mean??


"We will continue with our set top box practice until we feel the technology for the next step is ready — and we believe we are almost there," Perry said.
It means Mits wants to drop ATSC settop boxes and instead include the receivers in the HDTV sets. They apparently think reception technology is close enough to do that. Other manufacturers already have.



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It means that eventually Mits will start building intergrated HDTV sets (built in HD tuners)but for now they are only building HDTV ready. Contrary to what you may have read the DLP set is HDTV ready.
 

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You wanna know something. I saw that tv at Sound Advice where I live. I hated it. I don't know if they did not set it up right or if it needs to be set up out of the box but for sure the $7000 Pioneer Elite looked much better than the $15000 mitsu.


I saw pixels up the wazzoo. Even when I stood back about 8 of 9 feet from the tv I could still see square pixels. The other tvs looks smoother and less like digitized material.


For $15000 get a nice front projector.
 

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If its anything like the panasonic dlp that I saw noone will be willing to spend 5K$, let alone 15K$. The way it was setup, the 3k$ crt mitsu looked much better.


I'd think the 15K$ tag is because Mitsu probably can't make too many sets now anyway (capacity limitations) ... and they think they can sell the ones they can make at that price. BTW, panasonic ones are about 12K$, right ?


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The dlp set was at the Sound Advice in Boca Raton. It is at Yamato Road and Federal Highway. They hate me there for being so picky so don't tell them I sent you.

 

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Thanks Romy...

I also heard they had the Panasonic DLP set. Did you see that one too ?

I'll have to take a ride up there one day...
 

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Given the current cost, the market for DLP sets is likely to be pretty small. And based on the poor display of DLP sets I've seen in stores, few people will even see the quality of picture that the sets are capable of. But I'm not sure the comments here are representative; some people seem so enraged by the high cost that I think their comments are overly negative.


I think that the DLP sets fill a small market niche where size/weight and brightness are very important, and where someone is willing to pay a significant premium for those features. There clearly are a lot of less expensive alternatives available, in both front and rear projection, and for many (most?) people, the DLPs will not be right balance of features/cost. I found a place that had the Panasonic DLP displayed reasonably well, and allowed me to tinker with the settings until I got a good impression of just how good a picture it was capable of. I _did_ get one, because (a) it fit the phyical space I had available almost perfectly, and (b) it is in a room with 50% windows, so the brightness was very important. The room also is such that I could not change the brightness or do any decent mount of a front projector system. I paid through the nose, but I got a very good match to what I was looking for.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron K:
I do not fully understand all of the benefits of DLP. Ron
I can't speak to DLP HDTV, never having seen one.


But I can speak to movie theater DLP, having seen three

films now in DLP at the Cinemark Legacy in Plano TX. This

theater was equipped by Texas Instruments here in Dallas,

as an experiment in what the future will/can be like.


They also spent zillions on the most perfectly clear and

wonderful sound system. It is the best sound I have ever

heard (24 speakers around the auditorium, not counting

those behind the screen). You want this sound system for

your home theater, and audio music. It is clear like a

bell.


I've now seen "Toy Story 2", "Spy Kids", and "Shrek" in

DLP. And I can honestly say it is like nothing you've

ever seen before. The uniformity and trueness of color

(especially red, yellow and blue, and green) is absolutely

astonishing. From one corner of the screen to the other,

it is absolutely uniform color and brightness.


The difference between theater DLP and conventional film

is like HDTV vs. ordinary TV. It is THAT dramatic! Pure,

no sensation of "frames"... just smooth motion, just like

in the real world.


If you ever get a chance to go to a DLP theater, GO! Make

it your business to go out of your way to see something

there instead of in an ordinary theater.


Better yet... go see the same film in BOTH types of theater.

I did that with "Toy Story 2" and couldn't believe just

how different (and MUCH better) the DLP illusion was.


From your seats, there is ZERO pixel to be seen. But if

you walk down on your way out, when they're rolling the

credits so you can still see projection on the screen,

you'll see pixels that appear to be as big as your thumb

nail (maybe they're actually bigger, but that's how large

they appear). It's remarkable how many there are and how

precisely they're arrayed.



All in all, theater DLP is truly remarkable. It must be

seen to be believed, just like 1080i HDTV. Coupled with

fabulously precise and perfect sound, theater DLP is an

experience we all should have.
 

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I saw the Mits DLP on display at Abt. It was showing Dinosaur in a dark demo room and the meteor shower scene looked absolutely 3D! The black level and color depth were unlike anything I've ever seen. The HT future looks very bright indeed.


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All three of the new 1280x720 DLP sets from Panasonic, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi are basically 'dead in the water'. All one has to do is look at the quality of 480i from DVDs to see why - a CRT set looks better, although it may not be quite as detailed. The scaling of 480i to 720 is the problem.


The price is too high on all three sets for the resultant image quality. A few dealers have told me that they can't sell them at the MSRP given - a price more in the sub-$5000 range is what will move them. The tube sets just plain look better with 480i material (or even 480p DVDs).


For many buyers, that's what will constitute the bulk of their widescreen viewing - not HDTV. Even one source inside one of these companies concurs that these are non-salable products at their current prices, particularly after a prospective customer views DVD content on them.


Texas Instruments is aware of this and is looking down the road at far less expensive DLP RPTV sets. Why Mitsubishi would raise their price (the full Mits retail was originally $17,000, by the way) is a mystery. Talking to home theater dealers will reveal the whole story.


Besides - you can now buy the new Panasonic 50" plasma for under $14,000 list, and it has 1365x768 native resolution. Other 50" prices will also fall shortly. The 42" plasma market pricing is also dropping like a stone.


From a purely esthetic standpoint, why would you want to buy a big, bulky 52" to 65" RPTV set when you can get 50" plasma for far less? And you'd have money left over to buy a Faroudja Native Rate Scalar to clean up the video signal processing...


KC
 

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A friend who's rebuilding her house just HAS to have the Panny PT-52DL10, 52" DLP RP. The shallow depth is what sold her for fitting it into custom cabinets. At least I found one at a big discount.


Anyone who wanders into LaserLand Home Theater in San Jose can see one setup (no this is not where the great deal came from). It has one dead pixel (always white) in one corner that simply drives you crazy. One of the owners told me that they're having a very difficult time getting Panasonic to remedy the problem. It seems most likely that the DLP device itself will need to be replaced.
 

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I've seen this set at our local Wiz chain. It's a very nice set, but not as sharp as a high quality HD RPTV. I can't possibly see how they'll push these sets at $15,000 when you can buy a higher quality set of similar size for less than half the price. The shorter depth sure isn't worth $8-10K!! Interestingly, the one thing I've noticed with the DLP sets I've seen so far (the Mits & the Panny which I thought was sharper though smaller), is their color tended toward the blue. I'm assuming there is a calibration procedure for these sets that can bring them in line.
 

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As a long-time participant in the CRT & Digital projectors forum, I really can't understand why these sets exist at this price.


If I understand correctly, these are rotating color wheel DLP sets, which have had persistent problems with rainbow artifacts as well as poor black level. Furthermore, you can get a very nice DLP projector for roughly half the cost of the Mitsu unit. So why would you want a huge box in the front of your room when you could have a small, light projector on a shelf in the back of the room, and an 11' wide picture in the front for half of the cost?


And if you wanted better image quality yet but still wanted to stay in the "digital domain", you could choose a DILA instead. They have even higher resolution, no rainbow artifacts, and are even brighter with better color balance.


I'm sorry if I've stepped on any new purchasers' toes, but I just don't get it. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


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Some responses to this afternoon's comments:


>>All one has to do is look at the quality of 480i from DVDs to see why -

>>a CRT set looks better, although it may not be quite as detailed. The

>>scaling of 480i to 720 is the problem.


If you believe this, you haven't seen one set up properly. Good quality 480i and 480p input looks incredible (my experience is with the Panasonic 52"). Scaling is not an issue. Of course, bad quality input looks bad, and only gets worse as the screen size increases.


>>The price is too high . . .


I think this is your main point



>>The tube sets just plain look better with 480i material (or even 480p DVDs).


Again, I don't think you've seen one properly set up. I haven't seen any direct view set that can match the 52" DLP in overall picture quality. And there aren't any direct views over 38"


>>Even one source inside one of these companies concurs


That's pretty frelling authoritative.


>>Besides - you can now buy the new Panasonic 50" plasma for under $14,000 list,

>>and it has 1365x768 native resolution.


This is a fair point - or at least it will be when the Panasonic 50" plasma is available, assuming that it meets the current expectations. But it will be a while before we know, eh?


>>The 42" plasma market pricing is also dropping like a stone.


True, but I don't think that the image quality of the 42" plasma matches up to the 52" DLP; there is a 10" size difference, along with a significant resolution difference.


>>From a purely esthetic standpoint, why would you want to buy a big, bulky 52"

>>to 65" RPTV set when you can get 50" plasma for far less?


Fair enough, but when did the price of the 50" plasma (which you can't get right now) become "far less" than the DLP price (which runs about 30% below list)?


>>Interestingly, the one thing I've noticed with the DLP sets I've seen so far

>>(the Mits & the Panny which I thought was sharper though smaller), is their

>>color tended toward the blue. I'm assuming there is a calibration procedure for

>>these sets that can bring them in line.


Like other sets, you can adjust the color.

___________


>>If I understand correctly, these are rotating color wheel DLP sets, which have

>>had persistent problems with rainbow artifacts as well as poor black level.


The black level is the one real weakness to the set. Maybe there's a rainbow effect, but I haven't seen it. I suspect that it becomes an issue somewhere above a 52" screen.


>>Furthermore, you can get a very nice DLP projector for roughly half the cost of

>>the Mitsu unit. So why would you want a huge box in the front of your room when

>>you could have a small, light projector on a shelf in the back of the room, and an

>>11' wide picture in the front for half of the cost?


Projectors don't work everywhere, like in rooms with lots of windows and beam ceilings. And while a 11' screen would be great if you have a dedicated theatre room, there are a lot of rooms where it just doesn't fit. And the DLP set is smaller than other RPTV options with similar screen size.




[This message has been edited by acourvil (edited 07-03-2001).]
 
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