[Dallas22]

Hello again...


After narrowing down my selections for my Rear-Projection CRT that I am planning to buy within 1-2 months, I've basically settled with either the #1-Toshiba 57" or the Sony 57" (The models reviewed by Consumer Reports, but I don't know them off the top of my head).


Anyways, I went to all my local electonic stores in Orlando, like Circuit City and Best But, but decided to save the "primere" A/V store for last - Sound Advice. They've been around for a while and they defenatly have quality models, brands, etc, but of course, a bit more expensive. I bought my entire car stereo system from them about 10 years ago and even though it was a bit most costly than BB or Circuit City, EVERYTHING is still running smoothly and work and sounds great.


So after visiting my nearest Sound Advice store I spoke with the sales man and he told me about another RP CRT that has caught my attention, BUT I am just not too sure about the model. He told me that the rear-projection, HDTV Mitsubishi 55" Silver Plus model 55413 was the "best bang for the buck" for the price range that I am looking for. I am looking for a RP CRT between 55"-57" for under $2000 (before taxes, shipping, extended warrenty, wires, etc). He told me that Sony was NOT putting money in the RP CRTs anymore and focusing more on the LCDs and Plasmas. He said that the Toshiba and the Sony brands are basically "ok" but don't compare to the Mitsubishi model I listed above.


Now I am kind of a bind because I didn notice that the HDTV looked a lot better than the Sony they had displayed which is one of the models on my short list of TVs (from the side viewing angle, it was incredably better). The prices on ALL 3 sets are basically the same, the Sony at BB is $1800, the Toshiba at BB is $2000 and the Mitsubishi at Sound Advice is $2000.


I just worry that this guy might just be trying to get rid of the Mitsubishi HDTVs or just being a "salesman", so that is why I am posting this in here. He mentioned that the NEW models of HDTVs don't come out until early 2005 but yet I have read different posts about how the new models are coming out in July-September. This made me a little weary, but he said that the new HDTV "showcase" is at the begining of the year and that that is when the store gets their new models. He made a mention that the Mitsubishi has 64-points of manual convergance if I wanted to do it myself (which I plan to) compared to the Sony's 16 (I think). He also said that the "Silver Plus" models have "bigger & better guns and lenses/mirrors" than the Sony and Toshiba. I have searched these forums and all over the internet to get more information AND reviews from people who know about this HDTV but so far I've hardly found ANYTHING And since I've hardly know anything about Mitsubishi HDTVs, I don't really know the reputation they have and how often they break down.


Any help, information and reviews about this Mitsubishi model HDTV would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Dallas22

 

[bigjohns1997SS]

I don't think the mitsu has bigger and better guns. I have the 55413 and i like it, i still want a progressive display though.

 

[Dallas22]

Do you have the Silver Plus model version? BTW, does the Sony and Toshiba have the progressive display???


Dallas22

 

[dwynne]

I recently purchased the Mitsu WS55413 (the Silver plus) and it looks nice to me.


I looked at the Sony KP57WS510 (probably the one you are looking at) and the Toshiba (and others like the Hitachi and Panasonic). All had nice pictures and I don't think you would go wrong with any of these choices. For me it came down to features - the Mitsu PiP system, the settings memory of each input, etc. For you, some other feature may make another set the "right" one. Did you look at the Hitachi 57S500 ? It was on sale at CC a week for so ago for the same prices you quoted for the others. It gets really good reviews in the video press and good user reviews as well. The Toshiba didn't stand out to me, I don't know why. Side by side (or close) with the other sets it looked fine - but just didn't grab me, and I think the price was higher as well.


I will say this, the new Mitsu sets are coming out - the literature is now available and BB (at least) already has one of the new sets (the replacement for the 55" silver series - BB does not get the silver plus models). So I think in that area the salesman was blowing smoke - the convergence system on the Mitsu does look nicer to me as well. As to the Sony next to the Mitsu that can be an old trick - having the set the competition all sell next to your (more exclusive) set. Adjust your set for a perfect picture and mis-adjust the more common set. Then sell one against the other - you will have a harder time finding another Mitsu dealer and they know it. My salesman did push the Mitsu, but they played fair with the pictures - they were on a par with either HD or SD material, I thought.


I got my set from the same company as you are looking at (different name, but owned by the same folks). It was "on sale" over Memorial day weekend for $200 less that what you quoted, but I talked them down another $200. I was offered the Sony 2 different places for about $200 less than you were quoted as well. CC and BB don't negotiate prices, but they do have sales. Other dealers will deal - I have found.


Finally, I am a long-time Consumer Reports subscriber. When it comes to testing washers or freezers or something then I trust them. When it comes to testing audio and video products I take their reviews with a large grain of salt.


I guess the bottom line is to see what kind of deal you can get on each one - and if you can't decide based on picture or features do it on price. Or spend some time playing with each set and see if there is one feature one has that wins you over. I didn't see a bad picture on any of the ones you listed, so I don't think that will be a problem.


Dennis

 

[Marc Alexander]

My preference would be

1) Mits

2) Sony

3) Toshiba


The 2005 Mits sets will start hitting the streets this month with the 55315. I would use that as a bargaining tool as you should be able to get some sweet deals on the 55413.

 

[Dan.Jacob]

Any big advantages that the 2005 sets have over the 2004 models? My primary concern would be any improvements that effect picture quality. I'm debating a good deal on a 2004 vs the newer model.

 

[Marc Alexander]

2005 vs. 2004 PQ differences remains to be seen. Generally, there are not any big PQ differences year to year. I personally would go for a good deal on a 2004 over a 2005.

 

[truqui]

Dallas22...I went through the whole same in March, when I finally decided for the Mits 55413 Best PQ and features

Chech with Sears, they carry the Mits line and have good deals...


good luck with your new toy!

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgall...ppuser=7442217

 

[ChrisFB]

There will be no 2005 Silver Plus i.e. 55415 (only the 55315 which is the 55313 with the silver plus case but not any of the plus enhancements which are at least modestly important). So unless you want to move up to a higher series set like the diamond a 2004 55413 would be a good choice as there are no major enhancements planned at the lower end Mits line. I'd jump all over a good deal on the 55413 but I'm not convinced the price you were quoted is their best offer as it is still high given the new models being released in the next few months.


For the numbering on Mits sets the first two digits are screen size the third digit is the series - 3 = silver ,4 = silver plus ,5 = gold (silver with a HD tuner in 2004), 6 = gold plus (silver plus with a tuner in 2004), etc... The last two digits are the year 13 = 2004 and 15 = 2005. Hopefully that made sense so you can keep track of that stuff as it gets confusing.


My opinion on Consumer Reports is the same as previously stated. They are not a good source for expert technical information on audio/video and I don't trust them for any consumer electronics for that matter. In some other areas they are a fairly decent benchmark though.


Hitachi, Pioneer, and Mits are the generally accepted top 3 in RPTVs. Other companies make nice sets but generally are only prefered where price is a concern. For pure picture quality if you stay in these you are good to go. All that being said the varriance has narrowed considerably over the last 5 years so it's hard to really go far wrong in a purchase.


Speaking for Mits they are known to be very tweakable and display an incredible picture when properly setup. Previous to 2004 the stretch modes for SD were sub-par but 2004 and on rectified that. As for setup and tweaks there is a thread from Marc Alexander here (he posted above) and the Home Theater Spot forums is also a great place for getting the most out of your Mits.


The showroom experience for RPTVs is basically a punt for even the most knowledgable and discriminating video fan. The lighting is never comparable to home and the sets come screwed up from the factory and get played with all day long by morons. This is why it's important to 1) seek forum advice from hobbyists and experts who have calibrated and viewed these sets in good lighting environments 2) buy from a local store so if you get it home and hate it you can swap it out.

 

[Charles R]

I have had a 55413 for the last six months or so. I really like the HD image but I'm not impressed with the SD image at all - stretched image or not. I was going from a Sony 36" direct view set and my SD looked wonderful. Overall I think it was a good bang for the buck purchase.

 

[Marc Alexander]

Quote:

Originally posted by Charles R I was going from a Sony 36" direct view set and my SD looked wonderful.

You are right, NTSC blown up to 55" or 65" on a HDTV will never compare to native NTSC on a 36" analog set. Even a 36" Sony HDTV monitor doesn't compare to a 36" analog Wega.


That being said, NTSC performance on the 2004 and later Mits sets is quite acceptable.

 

[Dallas22]

Thanks for all the info guys...


So it seems that the general consensus is that the 55" Silver Plus Mitsubishi is the way to go, BUT it is overpriced and I should try to get the price lowered... but how can I go about doing this other than trying to bargin them down??? Should I check out Sears and see what they price their sets at? Remember though, I'd have to find the EXACT same model for them price match, and it would HAVE to be the SILVER PLUS 55" screen, not just the Silver.


I have no problems with getting a 2004 model rather than the 2005, but it just upsets me a little that this guy told me that they don't get in any NEW models until the start of each new year (2005). He is obviously trying to push this older Mitsubishi HDTV on me.


Again, I do admit that the Mitsu defenatly impressed me with the ANGLE viewing on the set, which seemed to be the best compared to the Sony, Toshiba and Hitachi HDTVs that I saw. But I don't want to fall for some sales gimmick that gears me to the HDTVs that they want to get rid of.


Finally, I did see a Hitachi HDTV that looked VERY nice at CC, but again, I am never sure what the salesmen are telling me and "not" telling me about each set and what they are trying to sell me. Considering that my price range is set (as long as it's under $2000) and that the MOST important features that I want my HDTV the have are: The OVERALL Picture Quality... I know that they all will look great in HD, but looking more towrds the Stnadard Analog & Digital channels, as well as my DVD PQ and progressive scan (if that makes a difference); The VIEWING ANGLES; the MANUAL CONVERGENCE options so that I can tweak my HDTV to it's fullest; And that there are at least 3 component INPUTS.... So:

WHAT WOULD YOU ALL THINK WOULD BE THE BEST BET WHEN IT COMES TO THE ABOVE???


Thanks again... and please keep the info, comments, experiences, etc coming... it has been very helpful!


Dallas22

 

[dwynne]

Check with the other Sound Advice/Tweeter locations in your area or within 30 miles or so - see what they can do on price (in addition to hammering them down at the store you went to). As a last resort, tell them you will pay their asking price if they throw in the 5 yr "performance warranty" for free (this lists for $350 normally). Sears carries/can order this same exact model, the local ones here had it in the system at a real nice price but it was flagged as discontinued and no longer available. The Sears stores in your area may be better. Other places carry these as well - like HH Gregg locally for me as well as some "high end" shops.


Based on what you say, sounds like you have found the right TV - it is just time to find the right price on it.


I would not worry about the model year, I am pretty sure the others you are looking at are last year's models as well. All this stuff changes, if you wait for it to stop you will never get a new TV


Dennis

 

[Dallas22]

Thanks for the info and advice... I am edging towards the Mitsu now (the 55" Silver Plus version), but still hoping to find out more info on this particular HDTV. Someone mentioned that it doesn't have Progressive scan and IF NOT, then how important is this to have??? I have a Toshiba progressive scan DVD player and want to get the best out of my DVD watching experience (as well as my HDTV, digital & analog cable signals) through my HDTV.


Thanks again guys


Dallas22

 

[Neumann]

you will be able to watch your progressive scan dvd player just fine on the mits

 

[dwynne]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dallas22 Thanks for the info and advice... I am edging towards the Mitsu now (the 55" Silver Plus version), but still hoping to find out more info on this particular HDTV. Someone mentioned that it doesn't have Progressive scan and IF NOT, then how important is this to have??? I have a Toshiba progressive scan DVD player and want to get the best out of my DVD watching experience (as well as my HDTV, digital & analog cable signals) through my HDTV.

You may be thinking of "it does not accept 720p" - and it does not. Your progressive scan DVD player (if it does not upconvert) outputs in 480p and the Mitsu will accept that just fine. Any HD cable box or sat box will be able to output in 1080i (the Mitsu accepts that just fine as well).


Some folks have concerns that ABC and ESPN (for example) broadcast in 720p - which this set and others can't receive natively. It should not be a big deal since whatever you use for a source will convert it. I watched parts of the Stanley Cup and the NBA finals via an HD cable box (upconverting to 1080i) and it looked just fine to me.


Based on recommendations here, I picked up the Zenith DVB-318 DVD player for "cheap". It upconverts to 1080i, has DVI output, will output 1080i on the component outputs, and will play burned DVD media. I put a couple of discs in last night after hooking it up, and I must say the picture on my Mitsu is FANTASTIC!


Another nice thing about this Mitsu is that all the compent ins (three counting the one shared with the DVI input) will accept 1080i. Older sets (prior model year?) and some other brands may only accept 480p/480i on some of the component ins.


Dennis

 

[Dallas22]

So from what I understand is that it doesn't play/accept true 720p? What do you mean by the source will be up-converting the 720p images? How does this affect the picture quality? Sorry, but I'm still a little lost on the 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i capabilities... what do all these things mean exactly?


DVD PLAYER: I have a Toshiba (SD-4900) progressive scan DVD player that I am HOPING will work well with this WS-55413 Mitsubishi IF I do end up buying it. It does NOT have a DVI output (DVD player), so I would HAVE to use the component connections into the HDTV.

CABLE BOXES: I'd rather use the HD cable box with component cables as well, as I have heard that using the DVI connections does NOT make a big differnce at all in picture quality when it comes to rear-projection CRTs. Then I will ALSO have a DVR (Digital Video Recorder) Cable Box hooked up to the HDTV... until they make the NEW HD-DVR cable box combo, I will have to use 2 component INPUTS into my HDTV... Since I would have 3 seperate devices utilizing the component wires, WOULD this Mitsubishi HDTV have enough component inputs WITHOUT using the DVI input??? Or would I HAVE to use the DVI input for, lets say the HDTV cable box, and then the other 2 component inputs for the DVR and DVD player??? If this is the case, then which INPUT should I use the DVI for???


Sorry for all these questions but to me this is very important info, especially if I can't get any deals from Sound Advice for this HDTV, and then I have to worry about buying all the extras like shipping, extended warrenty, cables (DVI), tax, etc, etc etc


Thanks


Dallas22

 

[Marc Alexander]

The Mits 55413 has 3 component inputs.


Checkout this thread for more info on the Mits, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=292377

 

[foowigs]

I echo what Dwynne says. I have the 55413 and watched the Stanley Cup too. I also switched to the Cubs game which broadcasts 1080i HD. Both pictures were great. People make too big a deal about the RPCRTs not accepting 720P native. I see no difference and have a pretty good eye.

 

[dwynne]

Here is a link that explains some of the terms and resolutions, it has more links to explain stuff like progressive scan VS interlaced scan.

Link to CNET pages


IF you purchased a TV that could accept 720p and display it without converting it, then "in theory" fast moving sports stuff would look better. In fact, a tube RP set is probably going to display in interlaced mode - even if it accepts a 720p source. The difference will just be that electronics in the set will convert to 1080i for you. With any STB (cable or sat) there will be a choice of outputs - you would just select 1080i and it will output in that format.


You can download the owner's manual here:

Silver Plus Manual


Look on page 12 and zoom in - it shows the rear panel connectors. There are 3 sets of composite inputs. Note that one is labelled "DTV" and has 2 extra connectors - but it too can be used as a normal composite to get the total of 3. You could use one with your HD cable box (for example), one with your DVD player, and one with another source (HD sat box, etc). There are also 2 rear panel inputs with s-video (or baseband video), and a 3rd on the front panel behind a flip down door. There is also a DVI port - labeled "monitor link / DVI". Note also that all component ins are labeled to accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i.


You could use the DVI port to connect up any source you have that has DVI out as long as you provide the cable - or just use the component ins. I have not played much with my DVI (heck I just got the set ) but my understanding matches yours - for a tube RP there will not be much (any?) advantage using it. One of the reasons some folks are DVI crazy (and buying expensive DVI switches) is that some sets (like the previous year's Mitsu's) only accept 480i/480p on their component inputs. This means those sets only have ONE "HD" input - the DVI. Also, they have digital RP sets so the DVI can produce a better picture. The WS55413 has 3 HD component ins plus the DVI, so you are in good shape.



Your DVD player will work fine. Normal DVD players output (via s-video or baseband) "480i" and progressive scan DVD players output 480p via component. Since all 3 component ins accept 480p you are good to go. There are starting to be some upconverting DVD players now (like the Zenith I picked up) that will convert the output to 720p or 1080i. Again, since the Mitsu can handle this I can plug the DVD into DVI or any of the 3 component ins.


I don't think any of your other set choices are "Wrong", but the more I look at and play with my 55413 the more I love it. You should have seen Shrek last night upconverted to 1080i - WOW!


Other than the price, I don't think you would go wrong getting one for yourself.


Final note, go read the thread that Marc pointed to. Notice that salesfolks were telling people last year that the "new WS???13 sets" were not out yet and getting them to buy the left-over ???11 sets. Pretty much the same thing is going on now. The difference this year is that folks (that know more than me) have already looked at the literature and are telling us that there seems to be no reason to wait for the WS???15 sets - in our case even more so since there will be no "silver plus" next model year.


Dennis