AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I noticed Tryg's close-up comparison of the Firehawk material

vs the aluminum paint. They look very similar!


I have been thinking, the aluminum paint must have some hotspotting

no doubt.. and a slightly "diffuse" surface would help to prevent this.


but what if we took some of this aluminum paint, and mixed

it with increasing amounts of a light grey paint..until we get the

right combination of gain & gray.. you know what I'm saying?


this will be relative to each person's ambient conditions and projector..

but mine is a relatively low lumen (400 ansi) with low contrast

ratio 150:1 ... I think it would benefit alot..


I think if I made various samples of 10 parts aluminum, 1 part light grey, 10:2, 10:3 ,etc.. and see if I can find a happy medium of some sorts...

by testing the samples with my projector before I make a big screen.


Just need to dilute the aluminum (it is oil based?) with another

oil based light grey.. maybe..


I'm considering trying this out when I have some free time.


what do you guys think? is it crazy? I imagine I can just spray

the aluminum into a small cup to collect it and then measure it and mix it up with light grey and apply with a roller to some sample sheets...


Is this aluminum available in small buckets??


it will be a bit messy test but with some surgical gloves and plenty

of newspaper... hmmm
 

· Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
You might want to consider overspraying the aluminum paint rather than mixing it. You could experiment with semi transparents for the top coat. Ideally use latex on latex / oil on oil but most oils can go over latex. Pigmented polyurethanes might be worth looking into as well.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
I got a quart of aluminum at a local building store (J & H Builder's warehouse) - they had gallons too.


I don't know what the base is, I didn't pay much attention to the smell when I opened it to have a peek. I haven't painted anything with it yet.


The quart was $9.99 Canadian (It's Tremclad - Canadian Rustoleum)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Has anybody thought of getting paint for radiators. Those old steam radiators are commonly painted with an aluminum style paint with not too much reflectivity. It's funny because it is actually worse than white paint because it doesn't give off as much heat.


-kovert
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,766 Posts
mixing the paint is a good idea.


ANY experimentation is a good idea. This is the only way to know what's good and what's not.


I love it when someone pulls one color off the shelf throws it on the wall and then declares it the best.;)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nice to get your guys thoughts on the subject!


I think this mixing idea may be a good approach, since I honestly doubt there

is anything out there that can come off the shelf ready to go for this

purpose (well.. other than the goo stuff, but we are trying to do it better

and for cheaper)


I think using a roller is essential, since spraying, especially out of

a can, would be uneven, and easily show up with something shiny like

aluminum.


I think drywall would make a good substrate to paint on, since it takes

that "matte" look after painting. I have painted my wall ultrabright

white (eggshell). I this eggshell is ideal because it has a slight "sheen"

that flat doesn't have.. which good for gain. I have never tried satin,

but I think it may be too shiny?


I will stop by this weekend at lowe's & home depot and do some investigating/research for paints. I hope I can find the aluminum in bucket instead of spray - would make my life easier.


I'll be too busy with taxes :) so no experimenting this weekend, but the following weekend I will begin my experiment (muhahahaha)...


Feel free to give you input, hopefully we can come up with a good

screen with good contrast and decent gain, and no hotspotting!


btw - that tremoclad seems to be successful for some people... is

it equivalent to rustoleum or slightly different.. wonder if I can

get it here in Missouri..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
I suspect over spraying will be very tricky to get a precise ratio of gray to metal. Mixing should allow very precise experimentation. Like Tryg, I applaud any experimentation.


As I've said before, I believe that the texture of the surface is important to screen quality. I just wish I knew what the right texture was, though.


Also, I've seen a few posts about how you measure gain but still dont have any idea how one would do it. Anyone?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
gauchito76,

I know I'm going to get all kinds of how- to? questions here but I can't keep my little secret in any longer,.....I've got to tell somebody!!!


I'm using the Day-Lite HCMW and this screen blows it away!!


I'm going to tell you how to make the best DIY screen and believe me it produces better blacks and rejects light better then the FireHawk and has almost NO color shift!! Sound Good??


I made mine out of Black-out cloth

All paint was sprayed (I'm a custom auto painter by profession)

After the screen is made (cloth is stretched onto the frame)

Go to Home Dept. and buy a quart of the brightest white Latex paint you can find (this is your base coat). Reduce 30-40% with distilled water spray 2-3 coats or until covered.

You'll also need a quart of Behr Faux Glaze (Part#748). Reduced the same and and spray 2/3 coats (be carefull not to flood with paint)

You'll also need a quart of Behr Premium Plus with style Metallic (Part #743 silver). Reduce the same and spray 2-3 very even coats (I can't stress enough how important it is to get the metallic even)

Now spray 5 more good coats of the Glaze(reduce the same)

You'll also need a quart (if you can get a pint great) of (I got mine at Wal-mart) Interior Latex Flat Wall Accent Base (Part#5053)

OK! Now this is the tricky part, You need to put one more coat of the Glaze on your screen but this time you need to put a little silver and the Accent Base in with the glaze. Your wife is gonna kill you but get a butter knife out of the kitchen,(shake the silver and the base good) stick the knife into the base and pull it straight out and scrape all the base from the knife (both sides) into the Glaze (do this 2 times) and do this once with the silver (clean knife and put away).

Spray a good even wet coat onto the screen (once again make sure the metallic is even) you'er all done!!


All paint was reduced for and sprayed with an HVLP gun with a 1.5 fluid tip

All paint should be reduced with Distilled water

All coats should be sprayed to an even wet coat (don't flood)

All coats should be left to dry between coats


If you follow these steps you will end up with a screen that will (simply put) blow your mind!!


DDog!!!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Here are a few of my thoughts:


1) I would stick with latex-based products for whites, as oil-based paints will yellow.


2) There are many types of aluminium flake, but the two main types are "leafing" and "non leafing" The difference is the leafing type has larger particle size and will give a more "aluminium" look - think Tremclad, "power boat" metallic, as opposed to non leafing which is more akin to car metallic.


3) It can be tricky to spray aluminium evenly, because of flake orientation. If you spray aluminuim paint with lighter thinner coats, it will look more silvery because the flakes are more perpindicular (ie. flatter) to your viewing angle, whereas thick coats give more of a tendancy to have the flakes randomly oriented.


4) You also might want to experiment with mica flake. It is most commonly sold as "pearlescent"


My 2 cents. FWIW, I was a paint chemist for 12 yrs. I now work in IT, more $$$$ for my HT obsess.... I mean hobby. :D
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
I'd like to add that this screen will have about 1.5 gain to it


With all the glaze (clear) you just wont believe the amount of depth(3D) this screen has! It really makes the colors jump (PoP) off the screen.


Ddog!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow ddog!


Your results look impressive.. where did you get the idea

from? I mean, how did you come up with the logic of doing

all those coats? Lot's of experimenting?


I'm just curious because it would never have occurred to

me to do it that way. Good work ddog!


I have a sprayer, but I'm not sure I will take that project

on my first try.. but definitely will give it a shot when

I get my experience/skills from the first try.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Kriilin


some good 2 cents.. I never considered the microscopic alignment of

the aluminum flakes... something only a paint chemist would know..!


hmm.. something to think about
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
I got the idea from my profession, clear over paint makes it look deeper.


I have a piece of the FireHawk fabric to match it to, although when finished this screen is some what lighter in color. (you can't see the Metallic flakes at all) It does a better job with producing whiter Whites and blacker blacks, Oh Ya! it rejects light like you wont believe!


A friend of mine is checking out the 2ft x 3ft fixed screen sample that I made and really seams to love it over his Hi-Power screen (he can't wait to see my 9ft wide screen that I'm making for myself)

I just bought a new house and I'll be moving in next week so as soon as I can I'll get it up and running!


You mite want to try making it, it's not that hard. All the coats are easy to apply and just mist the silver coats on to an even wet coat. If your going to go through the trouble of painting a screen anyways give it a shot, you can always paint it back white.


Ddog!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
DDog,


Great idea. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.


I plan to incorporate you thoughts, but in a resource poor (no power sprayer) & low skill (not a professional painter) manner. I'm considering the following.


Steps

1. Use fine textured 8x4 ft. board. Haven't decided on the material yet, but I'll see what is available from the hardware store today. I'll look for something that is light weight with a very fine texture. I was planning on stretching black out cloth on a frame, but it seems like overkill when a lot of materials are available on a 8x4 ft board (I'm limited to a 12ft throw).

2. Roll on a coat of "the brightest white Latex paint you can find".

3. Spray 2-3 very light coats (from a can) of glaze.

4. Spray 2-3 very light coats of metallic (silver or aluminum).

5. Spray 5 good coats of glaze.

6.


What do yu'll think of this approach?


KiRin
 

· Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
I know I could never spray an even coat with a can on a surface the size of a screen. You can rent spayers at most larger paint stores. I have an HVLP setup as well as commercial airless and compressed air. The easiest and cleanest to use is the HVLP. Ask around. You may have a buddy that will loan you a sprayer.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,226 Posts
wow ddog!

does your screen tolerate ambient light? i was considering a hi power

but can't pull the trigger because i loved the diy grey screen i used to have

i didn't even mind the color shift cause it made the whole picture deeper and more saturated. what do you mean you used "black cloth"?

was that for the masking?

also for someone without spray painting experience is it easy or hard

to do the job you've done?

thanks for your post it is the most intriguing one i've read in a while.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
KiRin,

You mite try rolling the paint on.

Paint white first

Then just put a little bit (the knife trick)of silver into about 5 glaze coats

Then about 2 Glaze coats( NO silver) and I think it will look about the same

Now remember that I've not done it this way so your on your own ( but I do think it will look very good)


Ddog!!
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
25,573 Posts
ddog,


Does your screen hotspot?


"Go to Home Dept. and buy a quart of the brightest white Latex paint you can find (this is your base coat)."


Be aware that some so-called white has a bit of blue pigment added for the "whiter-than-white" look.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
bosng,

Yes this screen rejects ambient like Nobodies business! (with a little bit of light on the blacks look blacker!).

I use the black-out cloth for the screen (do a search and you'll see it is the same as everyone else is using)

For the masking I use Black Velvet!!

As fare as painting, on a scale of 1 TO 10 (10 being the hardest) it's a 5(if you don't get the silver down even your screwed so if it doesn't lay down even with a mist coat then reduse a little more)


Ddog!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
noah katz,

No! it has No hot-spots! and if you do get some hot-spots then put another(thin) coat of glaze ( with a little bit more of the flat base) on

Just remember that the flat base dose 2 thing.

1) It reduces the shine (AKA hot-spoting)

2) It reduces the gain

So you need to find a good balance, but if you follow my steps you will see I've found some very good results!


Ddog!!
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top