AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
we currently have FiOS interweb only. But that may change at the end of our 2yr contract if the price (usually does) goes up substantially or other Verizon games.
Then we'd be on CableVision. Not as relaible, but ....
In any case, here is a diagram that I wonder if it would work with CV.

I know it's not entirely clear, but if it needs further explanation please ask.
Thanks,
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
we currently have FiOS interweb only. But that may change at the end of our 2yr contract if the price (usually does) goes up substantially or other Verizon games.
Then we'd be on CableVision. Not as relaible, but ....
In any case, here is a diagram that I wonder if it would work with CV.

I know it's not entirely clear, but if it needs further explanation please ask.
Diagrams are most helpful. Thanks.

My first question is whether you'll be subscribing to CableVision for Internet & TV, or just for Internet service? (The diagram seems to indicate that you've gone OTA for TV, but I want to be sure.)

Looking at the diagram, as-is, you'll have issues with your OTA antenna signal riding on the same coax lines as your cable provider signals, so you'll need to find a way to address the conflicting signal frequencies. You have a few options.

Requirements:
  • If you're only subscribing to CableVision for Internet service, that signal only needs to get to your modem/gateway.
  • MoCA signal needs to get from modem/router location to rest of coax lines.
  • OTA antenna signal needs to reach both TVs.
  • OTA & cable signals must be kept separate.

Is this correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"Internet service, that signal only needs to get to your modem/gateway.
MoCA signal needs to get from modem/router location to rest of coax lines."

Yes

"OTA antenna signal needs to reach both TVs."
Yes

"OTA & cable signals must be kept separate.
unless by "cable" you mean cable tv? Internet only.

In short, I'd like to use the existing coax to do both MoCA and OTA …… if possible.

I'd planned to use ActionTec ECB6000. In spite of the fact that their tech/pre-sales support is not so good.

I updating the drawing a bit to ….. perhaps clarify….?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
The attached diagram should do what you're looking for, and I believe works with your available cable runs.

Notes:
  • OTA/MoCA coax lines are isolated from incoming cable provider coax
  • OTA signals available to all 3 rooms (office, 1st & 2nd floors)
  • MoCA available in all 3 rooms
  • PoE MoCA filter required to block MoCA signals from reaching antenna
  • Amp may or may not be necessary
  • Preamp, Splitter 3 & PoE filter could be replaced with an amp having a built-in MoCA filter
  • Spliiter 2 could be replaced with a diplexer, properly connected

edit: p.s. Replaced original diagram to make splitter orientation (i.e. in/out connections) more clear. (And then updated it one more time to restore the splitter ID numbers.)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the coax from the MoCA 1 to the splitter 1, doesn't exist.
There is only the coax from the ONT to the router/modem (depending).
Could I add a PoE after the ONT but before splitter 1 to make that lack of coax work?
Updated attached.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
I'd planned to use ActionTec ECB6000.
FYI... ECB6200 adapters would double your throughput, and also provide a TV/RF Out port, which may eliminate the need for splitters in one or more cases -- with a resulting improvement in signal strength since such adapters filter the signals by frequency (like a diplexer) rather than splitting the signal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
oops! no, my drawing was inaccurate there.
there is only the one coax from the ONT to the router/modem that runs in the crawl space from the basement.
Would the PoE work where I indicated?

I guess 1 6200 and 1 6000 would work.
If placed the 6200 the 2nd floor, that would reduce one split.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
I guess 1 6200 and 1 6000 would work.
If placed the 6200 the 2nd floor, that would reduce one split.
Eh, hardly worth it* merely to eliminate the splitter --- but YMMV, to each their own, etc. Also, I think you'll find both of these adapter models are cheaper when purchased in pairs.


(1x) ECB6000 - $75
(2x) ECB6000 - $124

(1x) ECB6200 - $83
(2x) ECB6200 - $142​

edit: * p.s. I say going w/ the mixed adapters isn't worth it because you don't get the bandwidth gains in that mixed scenario.

The bandwidth between any 2 MoCA endpoints is determined by the highest MoCA spec supported by BOTH devices, not the highest MoCA spec of either device. So an ECB6000 communicating with an ECB6200 would transmit at standard MoCA 2.0 speeds (400+Mbps) rather than bonded MoCA 2.0 (800+Mbps).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
oops! no, my drawing was inaccurate there.
there is only the one coax from the ONT to the router/modem that runs in the crawl space from the basement.
My first thought would be to have CableVision run a 2nd line from the Basement to your Office, or a whole new line, enabling a direct, unsplit isolated line for the cable modem -- resulting in 2 distinct coax runs to the Office... and then go with my above diagram.

Now off to review sub-optimal alternatives...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
Would the PoE work where I
As a preface, the "ONT" terminology won't apply to CableVision, right?, since they're not a fiber-to-the-home provider. A PoE MoCA filter isn't required for fiber providers since the MoCA signals wouldn't traverse from the coax side of the ONT to the fiber side.

That said, given the corrected info, absent an isolated run to your modem, you'll likely need a "PoE" MoCA filter in that location to prevent your MoCA signals from exiting onto CableVision's coax lines. (The MoCA filter also strengthens your MoCA network, by efficiently reflecting the MoCA signals back onto your coax lines.)

Additionally, the latest diagram still doesn't prevent your cable signals from conflicting with your OTA antenna signals. The previous dual Office run diagram keeps them isolated, and I'll try to provide one more alternative, should you NOT be able to run a 2nd coax line from the Basement to the Office.

p.s. Keep the following in mind...


Given these frequency ranges:


CATV/Internet: 5-1002 MHz
OTA antenna: 54-806 MHz
MoCA 2.0: 1125-1675 MHz​
  • Cable TV/Internet signals can coexist with MoCA signals;
  • OTA antenna can coexist with MoCA signals;
  • Cable TV/Internet conflicts with OTA antenna signals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"As a preface, the "ONT" terminology won't apply to CableVision, right?"
Correct. They just direct connect to whatever existing coax there is and drop a modem/router in place of the FiOS router.
So in the current FiOS config, no PoE is needed in front of the router.

But it prolly won't work right without the additional coax run from the office router to the basement.
Trying to cheat physics, heh, heh, heh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
But it prolly won't work right without the additional coax run from the office router to the basement.

Trying to cheat physics, heh, heh, heh.
Basically, yes.

The 2nd coax run to the Office as previously diagrammed is definitely the recommended way to go, but there may be some semi-workable alternatives IF the 2nd run simply is NOT possible.

For example, you could use an antenna/satellite diplexer as a, in effect, imperfect MoCA-passthrough filter (see attached), to allow your MoCA signals to pass between the cable and OTA coax segments of your coax lines.

Notes/Caveats:


  • Background: An antenna/satellite diplexer is a coax component visually similar to a 2-way coax splitter but with an entirely different function: rather than splitting signal strength between 2 output ports, a diplexer filters frequency ranges across its output ports.

    For example:

    Keeping these frequency ranges in mind:


    CATV/Internet: 5-1002 MHz
    OTA antenna: 54-806 MHz
    MoCA 2.0: 1125-1675 MHz​

  • Owing to the diplexer being designed for handling of satellite and antenna signals, the top end of the cable frequencies (950-1002 MHz) would also pass through the SAT port of the diplexer: potentially allowing cable signals to make their way to and out of the antenna or stray OTA signals to conflict with cable equipment.

    For this reason, an antenna amplifier should be considered required in order to block stray cable signals from egressing via the antenna. And the reversed splitter at the cable point-of-entry will help diminish the strength of any signals bleeding across its "output" ports. (Still need to find a way to minimize the risk of any stray OTA signals in the 950-1002 MHz range making their way from the antenna to the cable modem. Perhaps the right antenna amplifier might be helpful here, as well.)

  • As depicted, be sure to add a 75-ohm terminator cap to the antenna (VHF/UHF) port of the diplexer.



 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I'd planned on the OTA to both TVs with my drawing. The current route of the coax is OTA 1st floor TV (that was our 1st TV), preamp onto basement where it meets the coax route to the 2nd floor TV, which I'd hoped in the config to carry the MoCA as well.

I suppose I could try to split the OTA at the OTA and route an additional coax from there.
Or this.
That's a reasonably easy run. Though need to run it under a gutter.

Don't see anything at Holland that fits the bandwidth description, > 1100MHz.

OBTW, what app are you drawing with, and the picts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
I'd planned on the OTA to both TVs with my drawing. The current route of the coax is OTA 1st floor TV (that was our 1st TV), preamp onto basement where it meets the coax route to the 2nd floor TV, which I'd hoped in the config to carry the MoCA as well.
Yes, the diagrams I submitted follow that premise, with the OTA signal reaching both TVs. (Or all 3 rooms in the case of the recommended config w/ the bonus coax run between the Basement and Office.)

I guess what I was really wondering was... where is the antenna, itself, physically located? The drawings indicate that both the antenna and its preamp are in the 1st floor room; however, I was thinking that the antenna would almost certainly get a better signal from the 2nd floor, perhaps good enough so as to remove the need for an amp. The OTA signal could still be routed to the 1st floor TV, as well, just as it's currently routed to the 2nd floor TV.

Blind speculation, of course.


Don't see anything at Holland that fits the bandwidth description, > 1100MHz.
Yeah, I haven't found such a device, either. :(


OBTW, what app are you drawing with, and the picts?
Simple graphics program, Paint Shop Pro.

And, for the heck of it, I synch'd the graphics between the 3 suggested config diagrams, to make comparison and identification of differences easier. (see attached)

.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top