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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm currently looking into getting a new DVD Player with upscaling ability to go with my new LG 26" HD-Ready TV.


I was looking into the Momitsu V880DX mainly because it has the ability to set a custom resolution, as detailed in a post over at AVForums. You can custom the following settings


Horizontal Freq.

Vertical Freq.

Video Width. (eg. 1366)

Video Hight. (eg. 768)

HSyncTotal.

PreHSync.

HSyncActive.

PostHSync.

VSyncTotal.

PreVSync.

VSyncActive.

PostVSync.

HSyncPolarity.

VSyncPolarity.


All of which can be obtained using Powerstrip.


This sounds cool, given my set is 1366x768, this means it doesn't have to rescale the 720p input, and should be optimal for my set, right?


But am I expecting too much? I've been recommended the Oppo OPDV971H and Panasonic S97, which both look hot, but neither of which has the custom resolution ability.


Any advice as to what I should be doing is appriciated =)
 

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There's more to dvd player than its ability to set custom resolutions. You should take other factors into account. The momitsu itself has issues with build quality, loader problems, reliability, and is not a motion adaptive deinterlacer.
 

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Well, it works like a charm now! I had some early freezing issues, but it went away after breakin time. The picture via DVI is spectacular. I feed a 1080i resolution into my JVC HX2. The picture is so good , I havent even bothered with any Powerstripe application. Its the first upconverting machine that works as promised...tried two others...Fishman
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
There's more to dvd player than its ability to set custom resolutions. You should take other factors into account. The momitsu itself has issues with build quality, loader problems, reliability, and is not a motion adaptive deinterlacer.
That's a real turn-off, and probably the one thing that will sway me towards the Oppo...
 

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I would not eliminate the Momitsu on the basis of one opinion. I have had my Momitsu for over 1 1/2 years and it has worked perfectly from day one, never had a problem with it playing any disc's. There were a ton of these sold when they were the hot item over a year ago and there are plenty of satisfied customers. The remote is a bit funky though!
 

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here is another opinion: Mooshitpoo is old tech. with Sigma 8500 single chip with right-sided EE, non-motion adaptive, poor build (crappy loader), expensive (relatively to other quality players like Oppo, Zenith, HD941, Panny 77s), crappy remote (interferes with Pioneer AV equipment and poor buttons), noisy loader (uses PC IDE drive), and unreliable power supply. The only upside is Macrovision free, region free, DivX, RGB out, IDE loader replaceable, hackable, HDCP-free DVI, upscalable component, and custom resolution. This is same chipset as the old (and crappy) Bravo D1/D2, Norcent 501, Yamakawa 375, and LiteON LVD-2001--I know, I still own LVD-2001 for DivX and MV free usage :D
 

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Huey,


Nice to see you back, and with renewed fire in the belly concerning the Sigma EM 8500 chip. Every time I've done a search concerning edge enhancement in the Momitsu your name appears; your a regular one man army of opinion.

Could you please direct me to the references you have that establish that EE is added by the chip.


Thank you,


John


EDIT: The way you listed all those "only" upsides had me LOL, well done.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
...and is not a motion adaptive deinterlacer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stimby
However, no momitsu is motion adaptive, ergo, it will fail the flag test.
Shakey_Jake33,


You DO NOT need motion adaptive or any type of video deinterlacing in your DVD player unless you are watching actual video material on DVD. If all you watch is film and major TV shows on DVD (e.g. Sapranos, 24, etc), as most of us do, then you will never need video (with motion adaptive) deinterlacing. So, who cares if it fails the flag test?


Since deinterlacing of progressive source material is very simple, the only battle is over video deinterlacing. This is where the Genesis chip in the Oppo, S97, etc, shines. BUT, you pay a high price (macroblocking) to get great video deinterlacing you will likely never or very rarely use. I say, no thanks.


I don't have a momitsu because I use an external scaler, and I have not seen John's (misohorny) modified momitsu, but he has done some work to the output stage to clean it up (detailed in other posts) and it may very well trump the other players in this price range for film-based playback.


Your other option if you want to spend a few more pennies is pick up a decent 480i DVD player and a last generation Lumagen Vision. This combo will cost you $400-$600 and will allow you to do custom resolutions (i.e. 768p) and give you, in my opinion, a better PQ than the $300 players out there.


Dave
 

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I completely agree with Huey's assessment. I'll add a couple. The rhs EE is not a deal breaker for me although on titles that have excess EE, the sigma 8500 players make it worse.


The sigma 8500 mpeg decoder is top-notch. Much better than the one used in say the zenith 318. the sigma 8500 clones handle 4:3 material correctly unlike, say the 318. Motion adaptive is good, but it's not he be-all-to-end-all. I used mine regularly for over 1.5 years and never saw any combing artifacts or objectionable jaggies (remember you've got 1080 scan lines instead of 480 when upconverting). No shimmering either.


bottom line though, it's older technology and relatively expensive for what you get.


Best,

jeff
 

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greeno,

as a CRT projector owner, I take offence at the generalization that "older technology" is inferior ;).


I was directed to the DVD player forum when I was told it was common knowledge here that the EM8500 had inherent EE. By doing a search I was able to determine that that "fact" is a result of Huey, repeating his opinion with superhuman regularity, I was hoping for a technical paper, or details of laboratory tests that confirm his strongly held beliefs. It may seem like nit-picking, but I believe the "EE" is an artifact of the circuitry outside the chip. I'm just looking for an easy way of proving it, one way or the other.


With regards to Hueys "one man army of opinion" technique, I'm very impressed, and am attempting to have my pet theory, "that prolonged use of digital projection causes psychosis", accepted as fact in the CRT projector forum. :D


Cheers,


John
 

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I have the LiteON LVD-2001 and it does add right-sided EE and exacerbate EE on existing EE to 720p and 1080i any DVD's whether Video Essential or major tittles. It uses Sigma 8500. There are numerous reports here that right sided EE is present on other Sigma 8500 based, differing brand players (Momitsu included). No need to defend your Momitsu. I'm glad you like yours. Just merely stating my opinion. I've not encountered or written any papers to this fact. Sigma 8500 has been superceeded by newer Sigma as well as other decent chipset AMLogic, FLI2300, etc. Sigma 8500 does have nice MPEG decoder so for 480i and PAL it's very nice. Just don't expect its upscaling to be on par with Oppo, Panny, Zenith, etc. I've not even talked about the component, high frequency roll off of Sigma 8500 (DVI is OK) giving a softer 1080i picture (compared to FLI2300 or AMLogic). I do own Zenith DVB-318 (FLI2301), Samsung HD-941 (FLI-2310), LiteON LVD-2001 (Sigma 8500), and Neuneo HVD108 (AMLogic); 4 component upconverting DVD players with A/B comparison using StarWars EPII (I own 2 copies) and component switching receiver. So I feel I can give a reasonable opinion on component upconversion. Of course it's not scientific, but most of this forum is just that: OPINIONS and YMMV.


Edit: dug this up for you (does not address Right sided EE issue but certainly discussed other issues mentioned earlier): http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...h&articles=118
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey
Sigma 8500 has been superceeded by newer Sigma as well as other decent chipset AMLogic, FLI2300, etc. Sigma 8500 does have nice MPEG decoder so for 480i and PAL it's very nice. Just don't expect its upscaling to be on par with Oppo, Panny...
Don't want to add fuel to the fire, but claiming "better" in this price range is dicey. Is EE better or worse than the Panny or Oppo (FLI2310) macroblocking? To me, that seems like a tough call as I consider macroblocking one of the worst artifacts.


Further, you need to know priorities. Do you need good video deinterlacing, or can a stupid flag reader or rudementary cadence detection do fine accept for the occasional mometary flag error and cadence change on what you are watching? Again, I would take this over macroblocking. I don't think it is a cut and dry this one is better than that one.


Dave
 

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I agree as MB is a big problem for some displays (but not all displays). Thus, if no MB then FLI23xx series will be great. The problem is you won't know until you try it. Plasma (possibly LCD's) in general has problems with MB while CRT's and DLP's generally do not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by misohorny
Huey,


Nice to see you back, and with renewed fire in the belly concerning the Sigma EM 8500 chip. Every time I've done a search concerning edge enhancement in the Momitsu your name appears; your a regular one man army of opinion.

Could you please direct me to the references you have that establish that EE is added by the chip.


Thank you,


John


EDIT: The way you listed all those "only" upsides had me LOL, well done.
Agreed! I almost cringe anytime anyone posts a question about a Momitsu. I can alway's count on Huey to appear and again start his one man crusade to put Momitsu out of business!
 

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I've seen Huey mention the issue of right-sided EE on the Momitsu many times but have never

seen it on mine. In my opinion the lack of EE is one of its strengths. Has anyone else noticed EE on theirs?
 

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880 connected to Z2 via DVI, 106" diagonal here. I dunno. Never seen right sided EE either. Not saying EE is not there, maybe I just don't know what to look for? (quite possible).


I thought the high frequency roll-off on component was limited to the initial v880s, and was due to the sharing of a single DAC for all the analogs out? This was supposedly fixed on the later models (v880dx and n models), where component was given it's own seperate DAC. I was not aware this was a Sigma 8500 issue. (not an issue for me, as I use DVI, but just curious)


To me, the major drawback to the 880 is it's absolutely putrescent response to remote commands. Again, the dx and n models had a newer remote, but don't know if it actually helped.


Other than that, I have no complaints with it... it's been terrific for me.
 

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misohorny,

Note that while I did have an adjective (older) on "technology", I did not make a value judgement on it (and I did get your wink ;-). I'm also a guy with, by today's standards, old technology (circa 1999 first gen mits HD-ready and a circa 2002 tosh 50hx81).


wrt to the v880's (and similar clones), I loved the picture and could never get a straight answer from anyone in the know as to how they could measure such extreme high-freq. roll-off yet the 6Mhz test patterns were rock solid. these two facts seem at odds. via component my dreamx-108 also had rhs EE, but on well mastered titles, you have to really look hard for it. Huey's not so much a one-man army promoting this POV, but just giving you a concise summary of the features of the player that represents the majority of the opinions in the forum of these players. If you search through the archives (not just the active forum), you'll find more on the rhs EE. this came up a good while ago.


If my dreamx-108 wasn't so darn finicky about player titles, it would still be in my rack. the 318 has MB on my CRT's, but I've only seen it on 2 titles so far and it was limited to only 1-2 scenes. I see WAY more MB when I watch comcast digital cable. IMO, the real solution to MB enhance is not the chipset, but the encoding/mastering process. the chipset is just so good at decoding the software that we can now see the noise. Cleaner well authored titles do not exhibit MB.


If you've not watched it yet, check out VanHelsing. This title by it's dark nature had me sort of worried that it would be a MB nightmare. It's transer is absolutely beautiful. Excellent shadow delineation and not a MB insight...


Best,

jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno
Huey's not so much a one-man army promoting this POV, but just giving you a concise summary of the features of the player that represents the majority of the opinions in the forum of these players. If you search through the archives (not just the active forum), you'll find more on the rhs EE. this came up a good while ago.


Actually I came to my conclusions having searched the archives as well as the active forum (in the CRT projector forum most of the good stuff is in the archives).


Originally I had used HTPCs as my DVD players (analog RGB/VGA), and was already familiar with the improvements to clarity resulting in using BNCs and removing the output filters of video cards. It was therefore one of the first things I did to my Momitsu V880, to clean the output signal.

I realise most people aren't interested in performing surgery on their DVD players, but for those that are, the output can be noticably improved.

Mike Parker will be modding the component signal path in a Momitsu (it will be used in conjunction with his MP-5), he'll probably even improve the modification method, hopefully he'll report on any changes to picture quality, or reduction in artifacts, from a more technical perspective.


Cheers,


John
 
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