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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From Doom9.org:

Quote:
Now the BluRay camp has made up their minds for their copy protection mechanism as well: They will be using AACS just like HD DVD, but with two additions: the ROM mark is a unique undetectable identifier in prerecorded BD discs, which can only be mastered by licensed BD manufacturers. This does not sound terribly new to me: The CSS ring on DVD-R/W discs is rather similar. It's detectable, but you need the proper DVD mastering equipment to produce DVD discs with CSS as well. The second mechanism, known as BD+ allows dynamic updates of compromised code. I suppose that means they can update your player firmware without you being able to do anything against it, thus potentially locking you out, because somebody managed to crack a player similar to yours.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...24&newsLang=en
 

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Here's another link for a similar story. It looks like they want a DRM trifecta: a watermark on writable BD disks, force consumers to connect the devices to the internet whereupon it will check a remote host for firmware auto-updates and potentially to disable functionality of a device, and finally a new cyprographic standard for content - the functionality of which will be stored on the disk instead of in firmware on the player.


I'm most disturbed by the requirement that consumers connect the device to the internet for periodic "verification" and system self-termination. You mean they get to decide if my $1000 player will actually work? Will they refund me if they disable the unit? Am I renting this thing or do I own it? WTF?


"Blu-ray makes unexpected, three-way DRM choice for high-def DVD"

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...10_131820.html

Quote:


[...]


The digital watermarking technique, which will be called ROM Mark, is described in the statement as "a unique and undetectable identifier in pre-recorded BD-ROM media such as movies, music and games." "BD-ROM" is the proposed writable version of the Blu-ray format. Little else is known about ROM Mark at this time, except that the statement describes it as being undetectable to consumers. This is noteworthy in itself, since a previously heralded watermark applied to first-generation DVDs was notoriously defeated by someone writing over it with a permanent marker.


One part of the announcement that had been anticipated by experts was Blu-ray's embrace of Advanced Access Content System (AACS), one version of which has also been adopted by the HD DVD Forum. This controversial technology would require that disc players maintain permanent connections to content providers via the Internet, making it possible for discs that fail a security check to trigger a notification process, enabling the provider to send the player a sort of "self-destruct code." This code would come in the form of a flash ROM "update" that would actually render the player useless, perhaps unless and until it is taken to a repair shop for reprogramming. The Blu-ray statement noted that certain elements of AACS have yet to be formally approved by the BDA.


The third part of the announcement that is perhaps most surprising, is Blu-ray's adoption of a third DRM technique that appears to embrace some of the ideals of one of the technologies that had been considered, without actually licensing its methodology or its existing tools. The BDA statement introduces what it calls "BD+," described as "a Blu-ray Disc specific programmable renewability enhancement that gives content providers an additional means to respond to organized attacks on the security system by allowing dynamic updates of compromised code."


BD+ appears to be Blu-ray's version of a concept previously under consideration called SPDC, which enabled the method for encrypting a disc's contents to be included on the disc, rather than on the EPROMs of the disc player. One of the perceived failures of first-generation DVD was that its encryption mechanism of choice, called Content Scramble System (CSS), was spectacularly defeated, with the result being that the industry was forced to permanently and irreversibly support a now-worthless encryption scheme. With SPDC, new encryption algorithms could be adopted as old ones are cracked, enabling successive generations of high-def DVD to be stronger than earlier ones.


[...]
 

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More info here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...10_131820.html

Quote:
One part of the announcement that had been anticipated by experts was Blu-ray's embrace of Advanced Access Content System (AACS), one version of which has also been adopted by the HD DVD Forum. This controversial technology would require that disc players maintain permanent connections to content providers via the Internet, making it possible for discs that fail a security check to trigger a notification process, enabling the provider to send the player a sort of "self-destruct code." This code would come in the form of a flash ROM "update" that would actually render the player useless, perhaps unless and until it is taken to a repair shop for reprogramming.
So AACS means that I need to have my player connected to the Internet if I want to play a movie? And they can wipe out my player as they see fit? Is this legal? Please tell me I'm wrong?


[edit] I see someone beat me to the punch. :)
 

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FWIW:

Quote:
DVD Format Groups Cross Swords Over Anti-Piracy Tools


By Jay Lyman

TechNewsWorld

08/10/05 11:45 AM PT


Yankee Group senior analyst Mike Goodman told TechNewsWorld that although the groups behind the different DVD formats want to avoid the market confusion and consternation that came with dueling beta and VHS video cassette formats, both sides also seem willing to take their chances on competing formats.


The two different camps behind two different next-generation DVD formats are at it again, this time feuding after the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) announced anti-piracy technology that mirrors the competing HD-DVD format's content control, and adds some unique measures as well.


While the BDA did not mention superiority over the HD-DVD format, the announcement was reportedly followed by a statement of support for Blu-ray from Hollywood studio Twentieth Century Fox. That triggered a response from HD-DVD supporters, who raised potential playback and reliability issues of the Blu-ray solution.


With technology and content producers aligned behind both formats, industry observers fear a format fight that will slow adoption of the new DVD technology, regardless of which format emerges as the standard.


"It really looks like it's going to be two different formats at this point," Jupiter Research analyst Michael Gartenberg told TechNewsWorld. "As much as everyone wants consistency, it's just not happening."


In announcing its new anti-piracy protections, the BDA indicated it had adopted the same content management system used in the HD-DVD format, known as Advanced Access Content System (ACCS).


Blu-ray backers said they had also included a "Blu-ray specific" enhancement for content protection renewability known as BD+. The BDA also referenced a technology known as ROM Mark, described as "a measure unique to Blu-ray Disc to guard against mass production piracy or the mass duplication and sale of unauthorized copies of pre-recorded media."


Jupiter's Gartenberg said both formats will require advanced copy and piracy protections if they are to carry content owners' newest, high-definition content.


Although some have raised concerns about the impact of such measures on legitimate copying by legitimate users, Gartenberg argued that consumers are not typically affected in these cases.


Analysts agreed that copy and piracy protection are crucial to the next-generation DVD format.


"Content protection is a critical issue for next-generation media distribution," read a statement from IDC analyst Joshua Martin. "Finalizing the content protection scheme is critical for the launch of blue laser optical disc technology, and new protection schemes should allow for increased consumer flexibility while better protecting prerecorded content compared to current DVD technology."


Gartenberg added that the next-gen DVD protection must leap forward from the current protection built into DVDs, which he pointed out was quickly cracked by a 15-year-old.


Yankee Group senior analyst Mike Goodman told TechNewsWorld that although the electronics makers, content owners and others behind the different DVD formats want to avoid the market confusion and consternation that came with dueling beta and VHS video cassette formats, both sides also seem willing to take their chances on competing formats.


Goodman, who indicated both formats have their own technical merits and are evenly matched, observed that HD-DVD may have an advantage with its content provider support.


"Content wins in the end," he said.
 

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It's ridiculous the extent the studios are going to for the sake of content protection... :rolleyes: They might as well upgrade HDCP as well since it's been "hacked." Screw over all the HDCP dvi/hdmi connections and come out with HDCP++. Now that would be brilliant...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flave
So AACS means that I need to have my player connected to the Internet if I want to play a movie?
No, it doesn't.

http://www.aacsla.com/specifications/specifications.htm


AACS provides a framework where online connections can be used ... or not. Quite frankly, this is more up to the individual format licenses (HD-DVD, BluRay, etc.) to determine (whether online connections are ised and if so, how) than AACS itself.


If I'm the HD-DVD group ... or the BluRay group ... or some new group coming up with the next new super-DVD format ... and I license AACS I could:

1. never use online connections for authorization

2. always use online connections for authorization

3. sometimes use online connections for authorization in certain situations as required


The AACS authors seem to envision #3 ... but quite frankly, it's up to the licensee. The licensee could even make it up to the content providers.
 

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This simply will not fly with the public. Period. End of story. What a joke.
 

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"Must have Internet connection to player" = "Hell no, I will not buy any of these players!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
When you load up your latest HD-DVD you get this message:


"Please insert your credit card into the slot on the front of the player to play this movie. That will be $5.99, Thank You."
 

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Here is exactly how the AACS spec reads for both pre-recorded HD media such as HDCP-DVD and HDCP-Ray discs AND for self-recorded HD content such as what many of us now have on our HD-DVRs.

Pre-Recorded Media such as HDCP-DVD and HDCP-Ray

1.2 Overview

In addition to the general objectives described in the Introduction and Common Cryptographic Elements book of this specification, the use of AACS for protecting pre-recorded video content was designed to meet the following specific criteria.

• Provide robust protection for both off-line playback and optional enhanced uses enabled via on-line connection.

• Provide for extended and ostensible usage (e.g. jukebox storage, pay for copy)

• Independent of physical storage format to the degree possible

• Compliant players can authenticate that content came from an authorized, licensed replicator.

Self-Recorded Media such as HDTV

1.2 Overview

In addition to the general objectives described in the Introduction and Common Cryptographic Elements book of this specification, the use of AACS for protecting recorded video content was designed to meet the following specific criteria.

• Provide robust protection for the recording of high definition video content

• Provide for extended and ostensible usage (e.g. jukebox storage, pay for copy)

• Independent of physical storage format to the degree possible

• Maintain and update the usage rules associated with content transferred to recordable media.


You can find the full specs HERE


Those of you who doubted my prediction of an eventual PPEU system might want to reconsider your doubt.... :rolleyes:
 

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First a format war and now overly-aggressive (even crippling) content protection.


HiDef DVD is dead to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flave
HiDef DVD is dead to me.


The King is dead! Long live the King! :)


It is alive and kicking for me, bring on the HD!!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo Moran
The King is dead! Long live the King! :)


It is alive and kicking for me, bring on the HD!!!!
It is alive and kicking but not on HD-DVD or BR, at least not for me. Welcome back DVHS and HDV.
 

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dVHS keeps looking better every day. I hope JVC is notices so they keep coming out with dTheater offerings.


The irony out of all this BD and HD DVD stuff is that Microsoft is looking better and better to me (a Mac user, no less) because even though WM9 discs have to get the temporary license over the internet, the type of person who would use a WM9 disc already has his/her computer hooked up to the internet and doesn't have to worry about Microsoft torching his/her computer (yet) if the server doesn't like the disc.
 

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Once again, Tom's Hardware mangles reality.

INTERNET CONNECTIVITY IS NOT REQUIRED TO PLAY A DISC UNDER AACS.


merc, if you would take the time to actually read what you have now cut-and-paste into multiple threads on this forum, you'd see that the very first specific critera for AACS says that AACS will "Provide robust protection for both off-line playback and optional enhanced uses enabled via on-line connection."


Off-line playback means no internet connection required. Period. Studios are not *that* stupid to try and recreate DivX.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralarcon
I'm confused, when do you connect to the internet, and why?
Untill BluRay and HD-DVD make more details of their particular implementation of AACS public this question can't be definitively answered. All people can do is speculate and point out possibilities ... which they certainly are having fun doing.
 

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Quote:
merc, if you would take the time to actually read what you have now cut-and-paste into multiple threads on this forum, you'd see that the very first specific critera for AACS says that AACS will "Provide robust protection for both off-line playback and optional enhanced uses enabled via on-line connection." Off-line playback means no internet connection required. Period. Studios are not *that* stupid to try and recreate DivX.
Alex,


We already know you drank the industry cool-aid, so what else would you believe? Those of us who have grown to know Hollywood and their co-conspirator manufacturing numbots(by way of their attacks on us), understand and realize that if Hollywood "CAN" implement some sort of increased CP/DRM and/or increase profits by implementing them, THEY WILL. If it is in the spec, it WILL be used... otherwise, there is no reason to put it in the spec in the first place. (insert Homer DOH! here) ;)


How do you think that Hollywood will charge you to "pay for copy"(in the specs) if there is not a phone or internet connection?

Quote:
Studios are not *that* stupid to try and recreate DivX.
Err, did you miss the Studio's recommending that manufacturers put a "Buy Button" on digital radios??? Hollywood to this very day believes that DIVX was a good idea(which they wished they owned), and the only reason for its' failure was that there was another better option for home disc collectors/viewers... called DVDs(which were owned by Hollywood). In the future, other HD doors will be closed and only PPEU will be available. If this isn't Hollywood's long term business plans, then yes, they have morons leading the Studios and all this other useless stuff(with regard to stopping piracy) is done just to piss us off?
 

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merc,


Content owners own content. They make money by getting people to pay for the content. They are free to dream up whatever channels/mechanisms they wish to engage people in this endeavour, outside of channels directly controlled by the government (e.g, OTA DTV). They can fail miserably to engage their intended audience, or they can be successful, through those channels/mechanisms. The market self-corrects as needed.


I've decided not to take the time to try and correct your constant stream of misinformation--outside of it being a full-time job, you--and a select few others--simply refuse to break through your anger stemming from some perceived injustice, so logical discourse never has a chance.


Have fun sitting on the sidelines looking for a lawyer to start your class action lawsuit.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians
Content owners own content. They make money by getting people to pay for the content. They are free to dream up whatever channels/mechanisms they wish to engage people in this endeavour, outside of channels directly controlled by the government (e.g, OTA DTV). They can fail miserably to engage their intended audience, or they can be successful, through those channels/mechanisms. The market self-corrects as needed.
They are not totally free to use whatever channels/mechanisms they wish. There is a legal doctrine called "copyright misuse" that forbids the copyright owner from attempting to secure rights that are not granted by copyright law.
 
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