Mounting over fireplace

You say you can see the back of the 'fire box' I'm not familiar w/ fireplace terms, don't know if that's an actual term, or the best you could come up w/, so is it a wood burning fireplace w/ bricks and all that, or is it some kind of gas fireplace?


I have a 'direct vent' gas fireplace, w/ a 'zero clearance' rating, it has a 8" or so pipe coming out the top and then through the ceiling out the back wall of the house, other floor plans in the neighborhood may vent through roof, depends on house.


I argued w/ the builder over cable placement, they argued that it was a zero clearance unit, and therefore cables laying across the vent pipe in the ceiling were ok. I pulled up the manufacturer's site and installation manual and showed the builder that the pipe needed a minimum 1" clearance on all sides, and 3" above any horizontal pipes, and that's just for fire safety, etc. I pointed out that the cables could get brittle over time, etc. and had the majority of the cables rerouted, any remaining cables were moved further away from the vent pipe. I also went back and added heat resistant metal tape to hopefully further shield them. The point here is that if it's a gas appliance, the mfg's web site may offer a guide for clearances and safety, and increase that distance for cable performance over time.


How far away are the cables from the heat source?


Put a thermometer where the cables are, and turn on/start a fire and wait awhile, how much hotter is it where the cables are, compared to room temperature?


Do the same for where your tv is mounted. The TV likely has a recommended operating temperature. If the thermometer against the wall, under, in front of, or above, the tv(whatever it taks to get an accurate comparitive reading), says w/ a fire going that the temperature is acceptable, then I think you should be fine.


If the cable area seems a little warm you could add additional heat/fire resistant insulation or tape possibly to reduce risk of damaging the cables.


If the tv is still a bit warm, you could increase the size of your mantle, further sheilding the tv from direct heat. Depending on how your fireplace is trimmed, this could be as simple as getting one more board, deeper than your current one, and slapping it on top of the existing mantle, often trim work is layered pieces of wood to add dimension anyway.


Hope that helps.


Regards,


karz

QUOTE=tripleM;12964014]I noticed that the heat emanating from glass-covered gas fp onto the bottom of my plasma was a little bit high & almost hot to the bare hand. I have not measure the temp yet...but soon.


Short of moving the TV higher or off the wall, can i rig a 'shroud' of some sort to put over the top of the fp to deflect the heat away from the bottom of the FP? Any suggestions would be great.[/quote]

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Do you have mantle to help deflect the heat? I have a direct vent fireplace with my LCD over it with no problems. In the fireplace manual it showed the distance the top of the fireplace had to be from the bottom of the mantle (along with other requirements). I do not have a problem with heat reaching my TV (memories of Christmas time ).



Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM /forum/post/12964014


I noticed that the heat emanating from glass-covered gas fp onto the bottom of my plasma was a little bit high & almost hot to the bare hand. I have not measure the temp yet...but soon.


Short of moving the TV higher or off the wall, can i rig a 'shroud' of some sort to put over the top of the fp to deflect the heat away from the bottom of the FP? Any suggestions would be great.

Click to expand...

Hey TripleM (I think I've seen you on the sammy threads?), I mentioned in my post above yours that I went through some of this planning. While my current Plasma I just bought is mounted over a pool table, the next one will be going over the fireplace, where I have prewires from new construction.


One thing I wanted to do was lower my mantle, and make it deeper, mainly for aesthetics, coz the current mantle isn't much deeper than a low profile mounted panel, so I want the mantle to be deeper for the proper look of dimension.


As it is now, I've left a fire run for awhile, and raised the temp at the thermostat in same room as fireplace, to an uncomrotable (for me) 78 degrees, and w/ a thermometer on the mantle it only got a few degrees above that for me. I have a 'zero clearance' vented gas appliance w/ a glass front on the insert. I figured if I went forward w/ my plans to extend the mantle from about 6-7" deep, to 9-10" deep, and possibly lowered it a little, that might deflect even more heat away from where the tv is.


Again, it should be looked at from the perspective of the 'difference' in temperature between the panel area above the fp, and the rest of the room, when the fp is on, as well as the temp at the panel in and of itself. In other words, if you let a fire burn long enough and hot enough, and have a reasonably well insulated house, and you get the temp in the room to 88 degrees, and the panel area runs 5-10 degrees warmer than that, it might be an issue. But it it only runs 5-10 degrees warmer than the thermostat, and you keep it at 70 ish, then you're only 80 ish or less at the panel. Hope that makes sense, in a general sort of way.


As I mentioned in my previous post, depending on how your trim work is, and whether or not you have a mantle already, it may be an easy fix.


If you don't have any mantle, you can see in Bullet's picture an example of adding one. You can even buy things like this prefab from home improvement stores, and bolt it to the wall.


Or, if you have a trimmed out FP and mantle already, you can do what I planned to do, and just add another layer to it, since trim work is just layered wood stained, or caulked and painted anyway, so it will just look like another more elaborate layer of the mantle, but you can add as much depth as you want, within reasonable ratio to the overall look.


If it helps, here's my no plasma yet fp, to see how my mantle is, and is probably currently ok to hang a tv already, but if I deepen the mantle, then I'll have even more heat protection:




Regards,


Karz



Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


Hey TripleM (I think I've seen you on the sammy threads?), I mentioned in my post above yours that I went through some of this planning.

Click to expand...

Yep on both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


One thing I wanted to do was lower my mantle, and make it deeper, mainly for aesthetics, coz the current mantle isn't much deeper than a low profile mounted panel, so I want the mantle to be deeper for the proper look of dimension.

Click to expand...

I don't have a mantle because of personal aesthetic preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


As it is now, I've left a fire run for awhile, and raised the temp at the thermostat in same room as fireplace, to an uncomrotable (for me) 78 degrees, and w/ a thermometer on the mantle it only got a few degrees above that for me. I have a 'zero clearance' vented gas appliance w/ a glass front on the insert. I figured if I went forward w/ my plans to extend the mantle from about 6-7" deep, to 9-10" deep, and possibly lowered it a little, that might deflect even more heat away from where the tv is.

Click to expand...

My house is 5 years old & the fire place is a propane & direct vent I believe (no chimney). Not sure if it is zero clearance. When I had it serviced a couple of months ago, I made the mistake of listening blindly to the hearth repair guy that it was no issue mounting a TV over the fireplace.


My TV's bottom is right now about 10 inches above the top of the fire place .

There is a 'canopy' that protrudes out a little from the top of the FP but does little to lessen heat from rising.

I looked @ your pic above - do you have canopy of some sort @ the top of your FP?


I wonder if I can find a bigger one that would come over several more inches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


Again, it should be looked at from the perspective of the 'difference' in temperature between the panel area above the fp, and the rest of the room, when the fp is on, as well as the temp at the panel in and of itself. In other words, if you let a fire burn long enough and hot enough, and have a reasonably well insulated house, and you get the temp in the room to 88 degrees, and the panel area runs 5-10 degrees warmer than that, it might be an issue. But it it only runs 5-10 degrees warmer than the thermostat, and you keep it at 70 ish, then you're only 80 ish or less at the panel. Hope that makes sense, in a general sort of way

Click to expand...

Interesting thought. I will have to try that this weekend. Just have to think of way to protect the TV & find a thermostat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


As I mentioned in my previous post, depending on how your trim work is, and whether or not you have a mantle already, it may be an easy fix.

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Well the Mantle would be Plan B.

Plan A is to find a larger metal canopy that would deflect heat better than the little one on there now.

Plan C is a blower but not sure if that would lessen the rising heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12975511


If you don't have any mantle, you can see in Bullet's picture an example of adding one. You can even buy things like this prefab from home improvement stores, and bolt it to the wall.


Or, if you have a trimmed out FP and mantle already, you can do what I planned to do, and just add another layer to it, since trim work is just layered wood stained, or caulked and painted anyway, so it will just look like another more elaborate layer of the mantle, but you can add as much depth as you want, within reasonable ratio to the overall look.


If it helps, here's my no plasma yet fp, to see how my mantle is, and is probably currently ok to hang a tv already, but if I deepen the mantle, then I'll have even more heat protection:


Regards,


Karz

Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/12980628


Karz, be careful to follow code for the lowering of your mantle. Code requires nothing combustible within 6 inches of the fireplace opening, and then a projection of not more than 1/8" per inch until 12" minimum distance. Even with that, those that have unsealed wood burning fireplaces may char the mantle's paint even at the 12" requirement.

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Hi Jim, thanks for the warning, for me, and anyone else peering in. I certainly wouldn't want to give anyone bad advice.


To clarify my intentions further, depending on what size tv I buy for the over the fire place location, I may or may not lower the mantle. I think I could do a 50-55" panel there, but if I go any bigger, I may have to lower it, because anything bigger would break the plane of the horizontal false ceilings on either side of that area.


Right now, in the pic I posted, the top of the mantle is approx 21" from the top of the metal frame of the fp, and 27" from the top of the glass cover of the insert itself. If you see the bottom of the 'crown' type moulding under the mantle's top cap, that's only a few inches closer to the fp. If I do lower it, the plan was to lower it just a few inches to about where that crown underneath currently starts, coz I didn't want to redo the whole look of the mantle, just do a minor modification.


As for the code regarding the 'projection' as you put it, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If I can only have the mantle extend 1/8" for every inch of vertical distance from the fireplace top, at a minimum of 12" that would be .125" (1/8") x 12" = 1.5" so if I had 24" of vertical clearance, that would only allow me a 3" deep mantle? Is something wrong w/ my math, do I not understand what you're trying to say, or is the code that insane? Who has a 3" deep mantle at 2ft above a fireplace, that's not deep enough to do anything with it, even at 3ft above the fp, it would only be 4.5" w/ that math. Please elaborate, or help me understand what you're trying to say.


Thanks,


Karz



Quote:
My TV's bottom is right now about 10 inches above the top of the fire place .

There is a 'canopy' that protrudes out a little from the top of the FP but does little to lessen heat from rising.

I looked @ your pic above - do you have canopy of some sort @ the top of your FP?

Click to expand...

Well, I gotta say, I don't know anything about this stuff, but just off the cuff, 10" w/ no barrier seems kind of close to me to hang a tv over a working fp. I would certainly work on creating some kind of barrier here.


Well, the large black perimeter around the insert is black slate (a lot of people upgrade this to something else, but we have slate tables, so we kept it), the top black line around the insert is part of the frame that goes all the way around the unit. Just below that, the top black ridge is a protruding canopy of sorts. I have a blower in the bottom of the unit that blows air around the back of the fp, and out through the top. This little angled ridge shoots the air out in a downward motion, if the blower is on. I suppose it shields the heat from rising a little onto the slate area immediatly above the fp. However, it only sticks out about an inch.


My blower is a little loud and annoying, IMO. However, my neighbor put a dimmer switch on his. I have no idea if that has any adverse effects on the motor or not, but boy it sure does allow you to make it a lot quieter, while still blowing the heat into the room. Don't know if you're unit has a blower, or can be retrofitted for one, but if so, and especially if you get the ok to have an adjustable fan motor, or put a dimmer switch on it of some type, then that may help move some of that heat into the room, instead of right up into the tv. You may have better luck w/ that than trying to find a larger vent shroud (canopy).


I don't know where you'd find another piece to add to your current fireplace, whether you can find a similar sized fireplace that has a larger deflecting ridge that you could order and retro fit or not. You may have to fabricate something, or think out of the box and come up w/ something. I know one time I was thinking about something I may still do. We have a SS microwave/range hood combo that vents to the outside, over our range. Problem is, the range's 2 largest burners are on the front, and even though the fan in the hood/microwave is strong, it doesn't stick out far enough to grab all the steam from the large pots on the front of the range (who's bright idea was it to put the large pans on the front anyway? wouldn't it make sense to have the large pans in back, so you could get to the small pans in front? geez). So, I had this idea, I could put some type of plastic or metal shroud off the front of the microwave to help catch some of the steam and smell from the front pans to get it outside. Then I had another idea, the range itself is the same size as the microwave, and they make these things for kids to prevent them from grabbing a hot pan off the stove, or touching the burners. Most of them are plastic, but then I found some metal ones. I figured instead of mounting it to the stove, I could put the mounts on the microwave, and maybe throw in an extra screw to keep in place, and since our stuff is SS and black, a black metal shield that is the exact right size would look proper, even custom, rather than cheezy.


Here's a link to one of those things: http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/v...L7004.ref.CJ4? Now, I don't know if one of those things would work for you. I measured my fp it's about 33" wide, and one of these things is only 30" wide. But I'm just throwing the idea out there, maybe you can think of something else that would be the right width. Or you might even be able to bend the brackets on something like this to still make it work somehow.


Good luck.


Karz



Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12986539


Well, I gotta say, I don't know anything about this stuff, but just off the cuff, 10" w/ no barrier seems kind of close to me to hang a tv over a working fp. I would certainly work on creating some kind of barrier here.

Click to expand...

It's beginning to look this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12986539


Just below that, the top black ridge is a protruding canopy of sorts. I have a blower in the bottom of the unit that blows air around the back of the fp, and out through the top. This little angled ridge shoots the air out in a downward motion, if the blower is on. I suppose it shields the heat from rising a little onto the slate area immediatly above the fp. However, it only sticks out about an inch.

Click to expand...

Yeah mine's at 2 inches at most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12986539


My blower is a little loud and annoying, IMO. ...Don't know if you're unit has a blower, or can be retrofitted for one, but if so, and especially if you get the ok to have an adjustable fan motor, or put a dimmer switch on it of some type, then that may help move some of that heat into the room, instead of right up into the tv. You may have better luck w/ that than trying to find a larger vent shroud (canopy).

Click to expand...

The blower would be interesting but will it be effective enough is the main concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karz10 /forum/post/12986539


I don't know where you'd find another piece to add to your current fireplace, whether you can find a similar sized fireplace that has a larger deflecting ridge that you could order and retro fit or not. You may have to fabricate something, or think out of the box and come up w/ something....and black, a black metal shield that is the exact right size would look proper, even custom, rather than cheezy.


Here's a link to one of those things: http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/v...L7004.ref.CJ4? Now, I don't know if one of those things would work for you. I measured my fp it's about 33" wide, and one of these things is only 30" wide. But I'm just throwing the idea out there, maybe you can think of something else that would be the right width. Or you might even be able to bend the brackets on something like this to still make it work somehow.


Good luck.


Karz

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Yeah, I may have to manufacture something my self. However, anything would have to be ~ 50" wide so maybe the fp manufacturer might have something.


Thanks for the ideas & support.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/12987186


That rule only runs for the first 12" beyond the firebox, and after that, you're okay to project any amount you care to. The mantle can be any depth you want it to be. In your case, lowering it by 3 or 4 inches isn't going to put you into a problem.

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Ok, I understand now, thanks. So, I'll be going down a few inches, and out a few inches, and I should be ok, that's if I do it at all. Ahh sooooo many projects at one time! I have enough on my plate w/ painting, crown moulding, fences, decks, building storage, ahhhhhh I'm tired already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/13000567


Karz, if I may ask, why are you considering mounting the panel over the fireplace rather than where your rear projection set is located? Why not wall mounted in that alcove on an articulating wall mount?

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Well, as I've gone through this whole thing, putting my first plasma in the other room over the pool table, I have considered that, but I'm not sure yet.


The original plan with this, and the reason I got a prewire behind those pictures for cables and an outlet, was because the fireplace is is more centrally located in the family room, as well as more centrally located in the combined family room and open kitchen and eat-in area. We have a counter height table over there, and while we can see the rear projection from there, it would be a lote more convenient for everyone to see the tv if it was more centrally located in the room, and mounted a little higher, especially for casual meals and when entertaining/watching games.


The other part of that plan, was to put an armoire/media cabinet in the niche area where the RP is now. W/ the accent lights, we've seen similar set-ups look nice in other homes, where there's a nice piece of wood furniture in this area. This would also give me the opportunity to put a second tv inside the armoire/cabinet, hidden from view, for those days when I want to watch two games at once. Actually, on the right of the photo, there's another room w/ an open wall behind the loveseat. I have a tv wall mounted in that room, that can swing into the open wall, so I can technically watch 2 games now, but there's only one really good seat in the house for that, as the tv's are a bit far apart, so ultimately, the goal is to be able to conveniently watch 2 games at once easily, w/ a maximum of 3 games at once.


Another advantage of a second tv for our family is the particular type of karaoke system we use (wife is Asian, this is a requirement that cannot be overlooked) that shows the words on the tv. I can run the karaoke on the tv in the cabinet, while still showing a game or whatever on the tv over the fireplace. It would also give me a choice of whether I wanted to run the wii on the secondary tv, or the primary tv, and keep certain people/kids from messing w/ my plasma, so to speak.


Hope that makes sense.


Karz