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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm moving into my new house in a couple months. The family room is 18x20 with a 2-story ceiling. I have a Denon 5800 and I've convinced the wife that my current speakers won't work in the new, great room especially with the high ceiling :)


anyway.... what kind of speakers should I get, most bang for my buck? I probably can't spend more than 2200 or so. I already have an SVS sub. I would probably have towers up front and bipolars for surrounds (7.1 system)


I was thinking of the Axiom M80 towers, QS8 surrounds, QS4 rears and VP150. I can get that package for about 2200 give or take (factory outlet where applicable)


My question is, is there a better system out there to be had for the money? Any thing I should be looking for to compensate for the high ceilings? Any advice or suggestions are appreciated!!


thanks guys,



Jim
 

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"I've convinced the wife that my current speakers won't work "


Why do you have to convince you wife?don't you work ?Don't have your money,CC,bank account etc..


Just buy the damn thing.:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Most peoples relationship with there wife is more like a partnership. She won't go out buying 4000 dollars worth of shoes on a whim without letting me know, and I don't go out buying thousand dollars in speakers on a whim.


It's great if you have that kind of money where you don't need to worry about other things and discuss with your wife... unfortunetly my wife and I don't. So we TALK about things.


Sorry if you don't have that type of relationship with your wife.
 

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Check out Phase technology Teatro speakers, specifically, the 11.5, 6.5 and bipolar surrounds. The 11.5 (powered towers) are discontinued, but if your local dealer still has a pair you can get a great discount on the package. I got 25% off mine. Retail is $1925 for the set. They sound amazing. Huge Soundstage, with excellent imaging and detail (IMHO better than the Axioms, I owned the M60's, because they are much smoother). If you can listen to them give them a try. Excellent warranty as well, 10

years on the speakers and 5 years on the electronics! All USA made and manufactured.


Check out a review from Home Theater here:
http://www.phasetech.com/reviews/htm..._frameset.html


P.S. they hold the patent for the fabric dome tweeter, their founder originally designed!


Good Luck in your quest!
 

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Hi Jim,


I'm with Sa-dono,


The Axioms you mention might have trouble filling that room (your talking close to 6000 cf)


I would look into something like the VMPS or M&K speakers.


In the $2500 street price range you could find this system:


Mains: VMPS Tower IIs

Center: Single QSO626

Sides: pair VMPS DIPOLE(Bipolar)

Rears: pair VMPS QSO626


This sytsem is guaranteed to outperform any system in that price range in the areas of SPLs. Dynamics, Freq Resp, and low distortion.


The T2s have dual12" woofs and a 12" Passive radiator, with a tired and proven "planar" midrange. They have even made Stereophiles "Recommended" List so they are no slouches musically either.


They will lay down 115db with 1% distortion so they are very clean.


And a pair of them weigh more than the whole other system combined (250# for a pair of T2s and 164# for the whole Axiom system your looking at.)


As a HT and Audio Consultant here in Los Angeles, I also place Atlantic Technology, M&K, JAMO, JBL, and over 20 other brands, but if you want quality sound and room filling value (and you have a big room) look at the VMPS.


Regards,


John
 

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I disagree with bioforce re: Axioms. (John, have you actually heard the Axioms?)


The Axioms are very efficient speakers -- 95dB/W in-room for the M80; significantly more efficient than most other brands -- even with two-story ceiling I do not think they will have problems filling the room with dynamic sound. They just do not sound "small."


The M80/VP150/QS8/QS4 seems very appropriate for the room, although four QS8's for all surrounds would be even better, if you can stretch. I would not "guarantee" anything like John ;) but it would be very hard to better this flag-ship combination from Axiom within the price range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Sushi, I'm definelty going to listen closely to the Axioms.


And bioforce, thank you for specing out that system! I have heard nothing but great things about VMPS but there website is awful and just hard to navigate and found out anything useful. Now I know excactly what to look for. Do dealers carry these so I could demo?


thanks again guys for all your help / advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by SilverCi
Most peoples relationship with there wife is more like a partnership. She won't go out buying 4000 dollars worth of shoes on a whim without letting me know, and I don't go out buying thousand dollars in speakers on a whim.


It's great if you have that kind of money where you don't need to worry about other things and discuss with your wife... unfortunetly my wife and I don't. So we TALK about things.


Sorry if you don't have that type of relationship with your wife.
I'm single :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ahhhhhhh, that explains it! :) Enjoy your HT now my friend.... enjoy all your toys. I used to drive a hooked up bimmer too, but now that sucker has for sale signs in it... who ever said married life was easy!??! :)
 

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Hi Sushi,


Yes I have heard the Axioms and I did not say they sounded bad at all. In fact they sound very good. I might say they "look" even better.


But no matter how good or bad a speaker system sounds others will either sound better, worse, or about the same.


To rate a system as sounding better or worse we need subjective and objective grading criteria.


I stated what performance properties the VMPS would better the Axioms in.


Objectively the VMPS have the greater Frequency Response, and Sound Pressure Levels. The Axioms cannot play from 22Hz. Nor can they cleanly play 115db.


Subjectively I would seriously dobt that an Audiophile magazine such as Stereophile/Absolute Sound/Bound for Sound/etc would ever rank the Axioms. That does not mean they are not a beautiful sounding speaker, but they may not have all the qualities.


Also I mentioned weight. Kind of a funny thing to mention since this is not a Heavyweight fight, but in the world of speaker building heavier generally means better. Not just because of the weight, but what causes a speaker to be heavier.


Heavier cabinets, more internal bracing, heavier woofer magnets, and better quality wiring x-overs and components, mean (generally) better speakers, if all else is equal.


The total Tower II based VMPS system I suggested weighs 424#. The whole 7 speaker Axiom system weighs 164#.


And SilverCI, you are very correct, the website is not as slick as many of the internet based companies. I might also add that VMPS is not known for "flashy" or spectacular cabinetry. They are simply some of the best performers.


So Sushi, please don't take "my opinion" as a derogatory comment relating to Axiom Speakers. From what I heard they are very good.


I just think that in a room with 12-15 foot ceilings and close to 6000cf, the VMPS would offer the better "overall" performance in that price range.


If reference levels and serious music are not a concern, then there are any number of speaker systems like the Polk, Energy, M&K, Onix Rocket, Aperion, and so on that could fill the bill.


Best regards,


John
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bizuca
"I've convinced the wife that my current speakers won't work "


Why do you have to convince you wife?don't you work ?Don't have your money,CC,bank account etc..


Just buy the damn thing.:confused:
Quote:
Originally posted by bizuca
I'm single :D
keep thinking that way and you will probably remain single ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Figgie, ROFL!



bioforce, thank you for all your explanations and help! I went to the website armed with the info and system you gave me and I still couldn't "really" navigate around and find what I was looking for. They seem to have a dealer in CA, any dealers on the east coast? I'm going to call next week and see if I can't get more info or someone on the east coast I could buy from.


thanks again!
 

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Hmmmmm...... I would suggest the Rockets for HT, they were made with HT in mind.


Take a look at the Paradigm Studio 40s as well.


Atlantic Technology makes EXCELLENT HT speakers.


Oh and Polk Lsi and Energy c-9s...... geah I love auditioning speakers.
 

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Quote:
I stated what performance properties the VMPS would better the Axioms in.


Objectively the VMPS have the greater Frequency Response, and Sound Pressure Levels. The Axioms cannot play from 22Hz. Nor can they cleanly play 115db.
bioforce, I still feel that your opinions on Axioms can be misleading, although I fully understand that you do not intend to make any derogatory comment.


First of all, I would like to see the "objective" third-party data which state that the Axiom cannot play from 22Hz whereas the VMPS can. Same thing for the 115dB dynamic range. Incidentally, contrary to what you posted earlier, the VMPS web site states that the Tower II plays up to 115dB at 5% THD (not 1%), which I would not unconditionally qualify as "cleanly."

Quote:
Subjectively I would seriously dobt that an Audiophile magazine such as Stereophile/Absolute Sound/Bound for Sound/etc would ever rank the Axioms. That does not mean they are not a beautiful sounding speaker, but they may not have all the qualities.
In fact, LOTS of people in this forum might be offended by this statement. For example, has Stereophile ever ranked or rated any internet-only speaker brands at all? -- including the Onyx/Rocket, SVS, and Hsu, all of which are highly popular brands here. My observation is that, these "traditional" high-end audio magazines did, does, and will have to depend on the economics of traditional B&M dealships and distribution channels thereof. Helping to promote, endorse or recommend the new internet-only distribution scheme or the products may unlikely be the best interests to these magazines which have been supporting and supported by the traditional market place. The fact that these brands have never been rated by Stereophile is hardly a proof, or even remotely imply, that these brands "may not have all the qualities." That statement is unwarranted.

Quote:
Heavier cabinets, more internal bracing, heavier woofer magnets, and better quality wiring x-overs and components, mean (generally) better speakers, if all else is equal.
I entirely agree with this one. Certainly, the heavy cabinet construction is VMPS's big virtue. But the discussion of "weight" reminded me of a question about VMPS that I have had for long years -- why do they still use that "weighted" woofer cone design? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that design destined to hamper bass transient response? It seems to me that it is awfully difficult to quickly "stop" such cone after a transient attack, whether it is a passive or active cone. I do not know if this is related, but my personal encounters with the VMPS sound during the last 25 years or so have always been with an impression that they sound "old" -- a peculiar coloration that somehow reminds me the coloration that many vinyl records used to exhibit.



I should repeat that I am by no means a "theological" believer of the Axiom sound, nor do I think they are the "best" under every condition for everybody (as I repeatedly posted here). In fact, I do not even use the Axiom as L/R mains currently.


Please also note that in my posts, I almost never comment on other brands negatively. I intentionally avoid a "comparative" statement, since when it comes to the speaker, I believe it is unproductive (as the moderators here would agree). I understand that you are a professional audio installer/consultant. As such, I suggest that you be extremely careful when negatively commenting on the brands that you do not normally place, since that may lead people to quickly sense a "bias" in your post.
 

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Quote:
bioforce, I still feel that your opinions on Axioms can be misleading, although I fully understand that you do not intend to make any derogatory comment.
Well Sushi that makes it difficult to offer an opinion if anything other than a brand suggestion is misleading. If I am going to suggest a specific brand or type of speaker I generally like to support the suggestion with a reason or reasons.


Those reasons may be subjective or objective assessment (or both). I don't feel that this is misleading.


Quote:
First of all, I would like to see the "objective" third-party data which state that the Axiom cannot play from 22Hz whereas the VMPS can.
Just go to the Axiom site and look for yourself. They claim Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 34-22K.

Quote:
For example, has Stereophile ever ranked or rated any internet-only speaker brands at all? -- including the Onyx/Rocket, SVS, and Hsu, all of which are highly popular brands here. My observation is that, these "traditional" high-end audio magazines did, does, and will have to depend on the economics of traditional B&M dealships and distribution channels thereof.
VMPS "is" basically an internet/mailorder/phone order brand and was ranked.


But that is not the point. To use your example the Onix Rockets are not considered "audiophile" speakers even by their creators. That is why they are introducing a line of "audiophile speakers" called the Reference Series.


I don't think they expect to be in the "Audiophile Rags". And that does not mean they are "lousy" music speakers.

Quote:
I do not know if this is related, but my personal encounters with the VMPS sound during the last 25 years or so have always been with an impression that they sound "old" -- a peculiar coloration that somehow reminds me the coloration that many vinyl records used to exhibit.
Quote:
Please also note that in my posts, I almost never comment on other brands negatively.
Read your above two quotes and see if they reconcile????


"Sound old"???, peculiar coloration ??? Now if I said this type of thing you would be reposting me and telling me how "unwarranted" or "misleading" my comments were.


I suggest that you are stating your opinion. I think that is what this forum is about.

Quote:
I suggest that you be extremely careful when negatively commenting on the brands that you do not normally place, since that may lead people to quickly sense a "bias" in your post.
Where and what did I say that was negative?


I am biased. I select the brands I "place" because I like them, and or, the value they represent. You are biased too since you own Axiom and enjoy them.


Nothing wrong with that. And remember, I did not say that were bad sounding speakers, in fact I said they were quite good.


Have you specifically heard the new Tower IIs I suggested?


Regards,


John
 
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