[ed3120]

I have a new home theater room and I just bought some new 5.1 speakers.


My current amp is an Onkyo HTIB 6.1 amp (running 5.1 speakers), but I plan to upgrade to a 7.1 Denon AVR-1712. I was wondering what I should do when I expand to the new receiver? I rarely listen to music on it. It’s for bluray movies, which I watch via my PS3.


My current setup:

Energy CC-10 : Center

Energy CB-10 x 2: Front Left and Right

Energy CR-10 x 2: Surround Left and Right (Has Bipole/Dipole switch)

Polk PSW10 Sub (Carried this over from old setup. I already had it.)


Option A: Add 1 rear surround speaker for 6.1

Pros: Cheaper than adding 2 speakers. Maybe I won’t be able to tell the difference between 1 and 2 rear surrounds? I’m not sure.

Cons: May not be as good as 7.1


Option B: Add 2 rear surround speakers

Pros: Pretty standard at this point. Some movies support it.

Cons: Some movies still don’t support it.


Option C: Add 2 front height speakers

Pros: Many people believe these are better than rear surrounds.

Cons: Do they even make movies that support this?


Option D: Just stick with 5.1


9.1 is not an option because there are no 9.1 receivers in my price range of $400.


Concerns: How high do height speakers need to be above the front left and rights? My ceiling is only 6’8”.


The attached diagram shows my current speakers in red. The fronts are at ear level. The surrounds start at 6’ in the air, and fire sideways on both an upward and downward angle (since they are switchable between bipole or dipole).


The green boxes are where I would put rear surrounds if I had them. If I used heights instead, I would put them above the front left and right, about 6’ in the air (can’t go any higher due to the ceiling.)

 

[schan1269]

You could just try the various formats and see which one you like best.


No movies "support" height(regardless of the DPL IIz or DSX)...


The two sound modes take sound cues and create height.

 

[Macstatic]

Do what schan suggested and try each mode. I wouldn't do the whole 6.1 thing. Honestly, get 2 small bookshelf speakers or satellites (any make, any size, maybe borrow a pair), then try both modes and see for yourself. I like heights better because of my room layout- I couldn't have speakers on the sides.


Movies aren't supported, but your receiver having the heights speaker capability will send certain sound information to your height speakers (rain, wind, helicopters, etc.). Doesn't always work superbly, but does add another layer of sound to your system.

 

[ed3120]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic /forum/post/0



Movies aren't supported, but your receiver having the heights speaker capability will send certain sound information to your height speakers (rain, wind, helicopters, etc.). Doesn't always work superbly, but does add another layer of sound to your system.

I have an older PS3, that can't output The HD audio codecs over bitstream. Instead, I need to output through linear PCM over HDMI...hence the receiver cannot do the decoding, the PS3 has to. (It's a hardware limitation of the older PS3s. Will the receiver still be able to apply its heights algorithm or does it only work when the receiver is handling the decoding?

 

[Smigro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic /forum/post/20807303


Do what schan suggested and try each mode. I wouldn't do the whole 6.1 thing. Honestly, get 2 small bookshelf speakers or satellites (any make, any size, maybe borrow a pair), then try both modes and see for yourself. I like heights better because of my room layout- I couldn't have speakers on the sides.


Movies aren't supported, but your receiver having the heights speaker capability will send certain sound information to your height speakers (rain, wind, helicopters, etc.). Doesn't always work superbly, but does add another layer of sound to your system.

+1 I cannot do rear surronds either as my seats ar up against the rear wall, but I have to say that the more I use the heights the more I like them. I am also a little limited with heights as I only have a 6-1/2 foot high ceiling, but regardless there is nothing like a hearing a helicopter descend with the info going from the heights to the mains.


I also think they excel really well when watching sports. Getting my first real feel for an NFL game with this setup last night was nice. Watching the Chargers game on ESPN I felt the sound coming from the heights was great. I made it feel like you were up in the 700 level of the Vet.

 

[schan1269]

Yes DPL IIz and DSX work their magic regardless of "doing the decoding" or getting it LPCM.

 

[ed3120]



Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 /forum/post/20813510


Yes DPL IIz and DSX work their magic regardless of "doing the decoding" or getting it LPCM.

Thanks. How important is it that I get height speakers that are timbre matched with my front speakers? Does it matter the same or even less than matching your rear surrounds with your front speakers?


Where I'm going with this is should I:

1. Buy some cheap height speakers.

2. Move my surrounds (same series as my fronts) to the heights and buy cheap surround speakers.

3. Buy new height speakers that match my surrounds.

 

[Smigro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ed3120 /forum/post/20813697


Thanks. How important is it that I get height speakers that are timbre matched with my front speakers? Does it matter the same or even less than matching your rear surrounds with your front speakers?


Where I'm going with this is should I:

1. Buy some cheap height speakers.

2. Move my surrounds (same series as my fronts) to the heights and buy cheap surround speakers.

3. Buy new height speakers that match my surrounds.

Not too important. I was using a set of BA satelite speakers for mine until I could get a pair Polk M30 to match. I did not notice much a of a change, there is not too much info coming from them just ambient noises. Now if you were talking wides I would sya timbre match them as you do get vocal noise from them.

 

[ed3120]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro /forum/post/20813708


Not too important. I was using a set of BA satelite speakers for mine until I could get a pair Polk M30 to match. I did not notice much a of a change, there is not too much info coming from them just ambient noises. Now if you were talking wides I would sya timbre match them as you do get vocal noise from them.

Good to know. Did you use Audyssey MultEQ to calibrate your speakers? If so, does it understand the idea of heights and properly calibrate them? I wouldn't want them to think of them as rear surrounds and screw up the calculations. The receiver I'm looking at (Denon AVR-1712) supports DPLiiZ, but not Audyssey DSX. I assume that if Audyssey can calibrate for heights, that it doesn't care that you are using the Dolby height algorithm instead of the Audyssey height algorithm.

 

[Smigro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ed3120 /forum/post/20813954


Good to know. Did you use Audyssey MultEQ to calibrate your speakers? If so, does it understand the idea of heights and properly calibrate them? I wouldn't want them to think of them as rear surrounds and screw up the calculations. The receiver I'm looking at (Denon AVR-1712) supports DPLiiZ, but not Audyssey DSX. I assume that if Audyssey can calibrate for heights, that it doesn't care that you are using the Dolby height algorithm instead of the Audyssey height algorithm.

Yes I did use MultEQ on mine and you should be fine. On my Onkyo it goes through all possible speakers and sends test tones. In my setup I do not have surround backs so when the test tone gets to the surround backs and the mic gets no feedback it knows to take them out of the equation.

 

[jacole]

Ok so I know. The big deal is that you need at least a few feet behind your seating area if your going to do rear suround/high. But my ? Is how far back is too far. My living room and kitchen are one big open room. So my rears would be about 18ft or so behind me. Yes I'll run audesy but will this be too far.



And would 12 ft be to high to just attach them to the ceiling Maby with some down angle to them.

 

[Smigro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jacole /forum/post/20985961


Ok so I know. The big deal is that you need at least a few feet behind your seating area if your going to do rear suround/high. But my ? Is how far back is too far. My living room and kitchen are one big open room. So my rears would be about 18ft or so behind me. Yes I'll run audesy but will this be too far.



And would 12 ft be to high to just attach them to the ceiling Maby with some down angle to them.

I don't know too much about rear surrounds, but it sounds like that would be too far back. As far as the heights, I think ideally they should be about 7-8 feet, but try nine feet. If you like it leave it, if not try a little lower and see how it sounds. Since they don't need to be bookshelf speakers, you could try some satellite speakers and mount them right to the wall.

 

[Gooddoc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jacole /forum/post/0


Ok so I know. The big deal is that you need at least a few feet behind your seating area if your going to do rear suround/high. But my ? Is how far back is too far. My living room and kitchen are one big open room. So my rears would be about 18ft or so behind me. Yes I'll run audesy but will this be too far.


And would 12 ft be to high to just attach them to the ceiling Maby with some down angle to them.

It's not too far for the rears so long as they have the capability to cleanly play at the maximum volume you listen. For reference volume, 18 ft requires a very capable speaker and significant amplification to drive them.

 

[jacole]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc /forum/post/0



It's not too far for the rears so long as they have the capability to cleanly play at the maximum volume you listen. For reference volume, 18 ft requires a very capable speaker and significant amplification to drive them.

That is probably going to be the issue. I know it was said 7-8 ft is optimal hight but that's also not going to be possible they would have to be at ceiling hight. (wife won't let me set up wire suspension or we would not be having this little discussion) if I did that could I get away with it if I sat them at an angle. About 20 deg or so, so that they are aimed still about 3-4 ft above ear hight.


Or should I just go with high fronts?

 

[Gooddoc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jacole /forum/post/0



That is probably going to be the issue. I know it was said 7-8 ft is optimal hight but that's also not going to be possible they would have to be at ceiling hight. (wife won't let me set up wire suspension or we would not be having this little discussion) if I did that could I get away with it if I sat them at an angle. About 20 deg or so, so that they are aimed still about 3-4 ft above ear hight.


Or should I just go with high fronts?

I don't think it would matter what height they were mounted if 18 ft. back. But I would do height speakers given the choice.

 

[jacole]

I'm starting to wonder if it's worth messing with