When you say as cheap as possible, what is your budget goals? and how easy can you run wires in your walls?
- Josh
- Josh
-
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multi source multi zone + local zones
I am looking for a way to have multiple sources with multiple zones at home, but to also be able to use local sources on some rooms.
For example, everything will be controlled out of the living room, where I plan on having a ps3, appletv, dvr, satellite radio, etc.
I want to be able to listen to at least the radio sources and the appletv on every room in the house (4 or more if I include the basement).
But on some rooms like the master bedroom, I want to be able to listen to the dvr from that bedroom.
It would also be nice to be able to watch the appletv on the living room and master bedroom, but its not a requirement and I may have other ways of accomplishing that.
And of course I would like to keep this as cheap as possible.
Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you,
--Carlos
For example, everything will be controlled out of the living room, where I plan on having a ps3, appletv, dvr, satellite radio, etc.
I want to be able to listen to at least the radio sources and the appletv on every room in the house (4 or more if I include the basement).
But on some rooms like the master bedroom, I want to be able to listen to the dvr from that bedroom.
It would also be nice to be able to watch the appletv on the living room and master bedroom, but its not a requirement and I may have other ways of accomplishing that.
And of course I would like to keep this as cheap as possible.
Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you,
--Carlos
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Well its new construction, currently on the framing stage so its as easy as its ever going to be. I am also going to be running cat6 and rg6.
There is not defined budget yet, I just want to keep it cheap, worst case scenario I run the wires right now and buy the equipment later.
Thanks,
--Carlos
There is not defined budget yet, I just want to keep it cheap, worst case scenario I run the wires right now and buy the equipment later.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Some whole audio systems do allow for a single local source in each zone. The local source is only available in the local room. So if you have an iPod hooked up in the kitchen, it won't play anywhere else.
To be safe, I personally would run precision coaxial cable from each potential local device back to the central wiring closet. Depending on the source, you might want to run as many as 6 wires (3 for component video, 1 for digital audio, and 2 for stereo audio). This would allow you to have the device in a local zone, but actually hook it into the system as if it was located in the central wire closet.
Of course you will need to consider control when you do this. Many whole house a/v systems have IR built into them, so it might be as easy as putting an IR blaster on the device. But you would probably need a three wire run from the keypad to the device (I'd run a cat5e wire just to be safe) If the device can be controlled via a RS-232 serial connection or IP connection, then you'll want to homerun a cat5 wire run to the location as well from the central wiring closet.
To be safe, I personally would run precision coaxial cable from each potential local device back to the central wiring closet. Depending on the source, you might want to run as many as 6 wires (3 for component video, 1 for digital audio, and 2 for stereo audio). This would allow you to have the device in a local zone, but actually hook it into the system as if it was located in the central wire closet.
Of course you will need to consider control when you do this. Many whole house a/v systems have IR built into them, so it might be as easy as putting an IR blaster on the device. But you would probably need a three wire run from the keypad to the device (I'd run a cat5e wire just to be safe) If the device can be controlled via a RS-232 serial connection or IP connection, then you'll want to homerun a cat5 wire run to the location as well from the central wiring closet.
run dual runs of cat6 and dual runs of coax to each room/location you want. Never know when you'll need it. hell if it was me I'd be running resier gaurd conduit as well for future runs.
There are several ways to tackle this. One is to get an HDMI matrix switch, something like an 4 x 4 or 8 x 8 switch, so it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs and you can mix and match those inputs and outputs to each other. Then the problem is you'd need some way to control it all, like an automation controller like crestron, or control4, or mcontrol or CQC. That is all for video distribution.
If all you want is audio, that is much much easier, and less expensive, but not cheap my any means.
Russound CAA66 is a 6 zone, 6 source audio controller amplifier. So it gets you 6 inputs/sources, and 6 audio zones. Then you have key pads to control each zone and select sources and what not.
For your bedroom you can run a local AV receiver there, and just have the Rusound or any other multi-zone controller feed your bedroom two channel RCA audio into the receiver in your bedroom, that way the receiver can do the audio/video switching between your cable box DVR, the muti-zone audio, and any other devices you have local to your bedroom, and is also your amplifier for the speakers in that room.
For me I am running J River Media Center right now through my HTPC which gets me muti-zone audio on the cheap. I am also playing around with CasaTunes and reviewing that to see what advantages it gives me. For my AV/Media Distribution I am using Windows Media Center with Media Center extenders in each bedroom and my family room as well. So with Media Center and the extenders I have live and recorded tv, movies, backed up dvds (re-enconded to wmv), and music at each tv in my home, but what it doesn't give me is true multi-zone audio and that is where casatunes comes into play and what I am testing out and reviewing.
- Josh
Quote:
Originally Posted by casolorz /forum/post/16823903
Well its new construction, currently on the framing stage so its as easy as its ever going to be. I am also going to be running cat6 and rg6.
There is not defined budget yet, I just want to keep it cheap, worst case scenario I run the wires right now and buy the equipment later.
Thanks,
--Carlos
run dual runs of cat6 and dual runs of coax to each room/location you want. Never know when you'll need it. hell if it was me I'd be running resier gaurd conduit as well for future runs.
There are several ways to tackle this. One is to get an HDMI matrix switch, something like an 4 x 4 or 8 x 8 switch, so it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs and you can mix and match those inputs and outputs to each other. Then the problem is you'd need some way to control it all, like an automation controller like crestron, or control4, or mcontrol or CQC. That is all for video distribution.
If all you want is audio, that is much much easier, and less expensive, but not cheap my any means.
Russound CAA66 is a 6 zone, 6 source audio controller amplifier. So it gets you 6 inputs/sources, and 6 audio zones. Then you have key pads to control each zone and select sources and what not.
For your bedroom you can run a local AV receiver there, and just have the Rusound or any other multi-zone controller feed your bedroom two channel RCA audio into the receiver in your bedroom, that way the receiver can do the audio/video switching between your cable box DVR, the muti-zone audio, and any other devices you have local to your bedroom, and is also your amplifier for the speakers in that room.
For me I am running J River Media Center right now through my HTPC which gets me muti-zone audio on the cheap. I am also playing around with CasaTunes and reviewing that to see what advantages it gives me. For my AV/Media Distribution I am using Windows Media Center with Media Center extenders in each bedroom and my family room as well. So with Media Center and the extenders I have live and recorded tv, movies, backed up dvds (re-enconded to wmv), and music at each tv in my home, but what it doesn't give me is true multi-zone audio and that is where casatunes comes into play and what I am testing out and reviewing.
- Josh
Is "precision coaxial cable" just rg6?
I don't mind the local source only being available on that location.
Also I am planning on using the IR keypads and getting a logitech harmony at least on two of the rooms.
Can you point me at the whole house audio systems that allow local sources? preferably something that won't tie me to just one brand.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Quote:
Originally Posted by sic0048 /forum/post/16823946
Some whole audio systems do allow for a single local source in each zone. The local source is only available in the local room. So if you have an iPod hooked up in the kitchen, it won't play anywhere else.
To be safe, I personally would run precision coaxial cable from each potential local device back to the central wiring closet. Depending on the source, you might want to run as many as 6 wires (3 for component video, 1 for digital audio, and 2 for stereo audio). This would allow you to have the device in a local zone, but actually hook it into the system as if it was located in the central wire closet.
Of course you will need to consider control when you do this. Many whole house a/v systems have IR built into them, so it might be as easy as putting an IR blaster on the device. But you would probably need a three wire run from the keypad to the device (I'd run a cat5e wire just to be safe) If the device can be controlled via a RS-232 serial connection or IP connection, then you'll want to homerun a cat5 wire run to the location as well from the central wiring closet.
Is "precision coaxial cable" just rg6?
I don't mind the local source only being available on that location.
Also I am planning on using the IR keypads and getting a logitech harmony at least on two of the rooms.
Can you point me at the whole house audio systems that allow local sources? preferably something that won't tie me to just one brand.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Call these guys http://www.htd.com
Ask for Chris or Mike and tell them what you are looking to do. Because I am doing the same thing and saved a ton of money on the audio side. Check out their advanced system, as the control pads allow you to use a Harmony IR remote, it simply passes it through to your gear. Just remember to run lots of Cat5e or 6 cable for your network and video. You want at least 4 drops to where your tv's will be and don't forget places that you may want to wall mount a flat panel in the future. Including that kitchen counter or master bathroom. Go nuts with the cabling if you are in the pre drywall stage, and I mean go NUTS! You can never have enough Cat5e or RG6 cable in your walls. Just make sure to label everything you run and drop.
Here are a few sites to look at...
http://www.htd.com/info/faq
http://www.avovercat5.com/product.htm
http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index....n=Custom&ID=10
Hope this helps.
Mike
Ask for Chris or Mike and tell them what you are looking to do. Because I am doing the same thing and saved a ton of money on the audio side. Check out their advanced system, as the control pads allow you to use a Harmony IR remote, it simply passes it through to your gear. Just remember to run lots of Cat5e or 6 cable for your network and video. You want at least 4 drops to where your tv's will be and don't forget places that you may want to wall mount a flat panel in the future. Including that kitchen counter or master bathroom. Go nuts with the cabling if you are in the pre drywall stage, and I mean go NUTS! You can never have enough Cat5e or RG6 cable in your walls. Just make sure to label everything you run and drop.
Here are a few sites to look at...
http://www.htd.com/info/faq
http://www.avovercat5.com/product.htm
http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index....n=Custom&ID=10
Hope this helps.
Mike
Thank you so much for that reply. I had considered the receiver in the bedroom alternative, I just wasn't sure how to control the central receivers inputs. Maybe I can just put a wall controller for that but not actually use it for sending the audio to the speakers.
I am still looking at running conduit, my builder said I could run it just to the attic if I wanted to simplify things. I may do that in the end, who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx /forum/post/16824026
run dual runs of cat6 and dual runs of coax to each room/location you want. Never know when you'll need it. hell if it was me I'd be running resier gaurd conduit as well for future runs.
There are several ways to tackle this. One is to get an HDMI matrix switch, something like an 4 x 4 or 8 x 8 switch, so it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs and you can mix and match those inputs and outputs to each other. Then the problem is you'd need some way to control it all, like an automation controller like crestron, or control4, or mcontrol or CQC. That is all for video distribution.
If all you want is audio, that is much much easier, and less expensive, but not cheap my any means.
Russound CAA66 is a 6 zone, 6 source audio controller amplifier. So it gets you 6 inputs/sources, and 6 audio zones. Then you have key pads to control each zone and select sources and what not.
For your bedroom you can run a local AV receiver there, and just have the Rusound or any other multi-zone controller feed your bedroom two channel RCA audio into the receiver in your bedroom, that way the receiver can do the audio/video switching between your cable box DVR, the muti-zone audio, and any other devices you have local to your bedroom, and is also your amplifier for the speakers in that room.
For me I am running J River Media Center right now through my HTPC which gets me muti-zone audio on the cheap. I am also playing around with CasaTunes and reviewing that to see what advantages it gives me. For my AV/Media Distribution I am using Windows Media Center with Media Center extenders in each bedroom and my family room as well. So with Media Center and the extenders I have live and recorded tv, movies, backed up dvds (re-enconded to wmv), and music at each tv in my home, but what it doesn't give me is true multi-zone audio and that is where casatunes comes into play and what I am testing out and reviewing.
- Josh
Thank you so much for that reply. I had considered the receiver in the bedroom alternative, I just wasn't sure how to control the central receivers inputs. Maybe I can just put a wall controller for that but not actually use it for sending the audio to the speakers.
I am still looking at running conduit, my builder said I could run it just to the attic if I wanted to simplify things. I may do that in the end, who knows.
I was looking at HTD, my only concern with their system is that it didn't seem like they accepted digital audio inputs. I'll have to check but I'm not even sure if my appletv has other types of output.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Quote:
Originally Posted by localnet /forum/post/16824105
Call these guys http://www.htd.com
Ask for Chris or Mike and tell them what you are looking to do. Because I am doing the same thing and saved a ton of money on the audio side. Check out their advanced system, as the control pads allow you to use a Harmony IR remote, it simply passes it through to your gear. Just remember to run lots of Cat5e or 6 cable for your network and video. You want at least 4 drops to where your tv's will be and don't forget places that you may want to wall mount a flat panel in the future. Including that kitchen counter or master bathroom. Go nuts with the cabling if you are in the pre drywall stage, and I mean go NUTS! You can never have enough Cat5e or RG6 cable in your walls. Just make sure to label everything you run and drop.
Here are a few sites to look at...
http://www.htd.com/info/faq
http://www.avovercat5.com/product.htm
http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index....n=Custom&ID=10
Hope this helps.
Mike
I was looking at HTD, my only concern with their system is that it didn't seem like they accepted digital audio inputs. I'll have to check but I'm not even sure if my appletv has other types of output.
Thanks,
--Carlos
I would not run an HDMI matrix $witch. Stick with component and make more than two Cat6 or Cat5e drops to each location, minimum of 4 drops and of Cat, trust me. I wish I would have done 6 drops to where my HT's are located and a couple of other spots. Allot of this tech that is here and coming does not play well with even the best gigabit switches. Go nuts with the Cat5e or 6 cable, whichever is in your budget. Right now, Cat5e can handle everything you can throw at it. But who knows what the future will bring, but for the foreseeable future, I think I am safe with Cat5e. At least for the next 10 years if not longer.
Mike
Mike
You will never hear the difference over a whole house setup. To many variables, you are dealing with speakers in ceilings, walls and outdoors. If you want to run digital audio, use digital/analog baluns, because in the end, your sound will be delivered via analog.
And I have two Apple TV's and a Mac Mini running through my HTD system with no issues via analog, including two Airtunes using Airfoil. It sounds just as good as my OTA HD Radio and wifi radio and DirecTV audio. You want to keep it simple, trust me.
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by casolorz /forum/post/16824174
I was looking at HTD, my only concern with their system is that it didn't seem like they accepted digital audio inputs. I'll have to check but I'm not even sure if my appletv has other types of output.
Thanks,
--Carlos
You will never hear the difference over a whole house setup. To many variables, you are dealing with speakers in ceilings, walls and outdoors. If you want to run digital audio, use digital/analog baluns, because in the end, your sound will be delivered via analog.
And I have two Apple TV's and a Mac Mini running through my HTD system with no issues via analog, including two Airtunes using Airfoil. It sounds just as good as my OTA HD Radio and wifi radio and DirecTV audio. You want to keep it simple, trust me.
Mike
only reason to run digital spdif is for surround sound. and if that you are then going to be running a local AV receiver at that location anyways.
However I don't agree about not getting a hdmi matrix switch, if you have the money and want hdmi video to each location its not a bad choice, just some people can't bare to spend the money, which is again why I asked your budget, a good hdmi matrix switch to some people is more than their entire budget, in the $4k to $6k range.
For me in my case it was too expensive which is why I went the media center and media center extender route as I run a single cat5 cable and i get full hd streaming and media distribution, I just done get full/true multi-zone audio, which again I am working on with CasaTunes.
To each is their own, and each person has different requirements and needs, so Mike what you may be running, may not be exactly what the OP wants or needs.
so it again all revolves around the needs and the budget first and foremost.
- Josh
However I don't agree about not getting a hdmi matrix switch, if you have the money and want hdmi video to each location its not a bad choice, just some people can't bare to spend the money, which is again why I asked your budget, a good hdmi matrix switch to some people is more than their entire budget, in the $4k to $6k range.
For me in my case it was too expensive which is why I went the media center and media center extender route as I run a single cat5 cable and i get full hd streaming and media distribution, I just done get full/true multi-zone audio, which again I am working on with CasaTunes.
To each is their own, and each person has different requirements and needs, so Mike what you may be running, may not be exactly what the OP wants or needs.
so it again all revolves around the needs and the budget first and foremost.
- Josh
I'm really not looking to spend 4K for video since I don't really think I'll be needing that. More than likely I am going to get uverse which does tv over ethernet, and the only other video I would want is appletv or ps3. It would be cheaper to get a second one of each, unless there is something like an hdmi splitter? then I could just run it also to receiver in the bedroom and be done with it.
At this moment my choices are using the htd for every room other than the living room (where I'll have something with surround sound), and utilizing the local sources the htd allows for audio on the bedrooms coming from the local dvrs or ipods, etc.
The other option is to just go with a mixture. Using something like the htd for every room other than the living room and master bedroom, then putting a nice receiver on each, that way I can have surround sound on both.
Thanks for all the help.
--Carlos
At this moment my choices are using the htd for every room other than the living room (where I'll have something with surround sound), and utilizing the local sources the htd allows for audio on the bedrooms coming from the local dvrs or ipods, etc.
The other option is to just go with a mixture. Using something like the htd for every room other than the living room and master bedroom, then putting a nice receiver on each, that way I can have surround sound on both.
Thanks for all the help.
--Carlos
Couldn't I just use something like this
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-m...ith-audio.html
and also send video to other rooms?
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-m...ith-audio.html
and also send video to other rooms?
because again it has coax/spdif audio out, if you intend to send a single spdif coax cable to each zone, you would then need something (a device, av receiver, ect...) at each zone to decode the signal, and then amplify it. also if you read the description of that matrix switcher it has coax spdif output but only for each hdmi input, meaning it breaks out the spdif signal from your hdmi inputs.
If all you are planning on doing is want to have music in multiple locations deal with that first, Surround sound is based of of local equipment, you can't get around needing either an AV receiver or a multi-channel amp with av pre-processor where ever you intend on having a surround sound setup.
so really you are looking at two different beasts here. having whole home audio which requires a source selector if you want to have each zone playing the same thing, or different things at any given time, and then a multi-channel amp to power the speakers for each zone.
here is a good diagram of a multi-channel amp, a pre-amp matrix, key pads, the whole works
![]()
basically you have your 4 sources, that go into the pre-amp matrix, then there are six outputs that go into the amp, and then the key pads control which source on the matrix to send to what channel on the amp (each channel on the amp is a zone, two channels, two speakers per zone) and then you select a source, and it starts playing, simple as that.
- Josh
Quote:
Originally Posted by casolorz /forum/post/16826169
Couldn't I just use something like this
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-m...ith-audio.html
and also send video to other rooms?
because again it has coax/spdif audio out, if you intend to send a single spdif coax cable to each zone, you would then need something (a device, av receiver, ect...) at each zone to decode the signal, and then amplify it. also if you read the description of that matrix switcher it has coax spdif output but only for each hdmi input, meaning it breaks out the spdif signal from your hdmi inputs.
If all you are planning on doing is want to have music in multiple locations deal with that first, Surround sound is based of of local equipment, you can't get around needing either an AV receiver or a multi-channel amp with av pre-processor where ever you intend on having a surround sound setup.
so really you are looking at two different beasts here. having whole home audio which requires a source selector if you want to have each zone playing the same thing, or different things at any given time, and then a multi-channel amp to power the speakers for each zone.
here is a good diagram of a multi-channel amp, a pre-amp matrix, key pads, the whole works
basically you have your 4 sources, that go into the pre-amp matrix, then there are six outputs that go into the amp, and then the key pads control which source on the matrix to send to what channel on the amp (each channel on the amp is a zone, two channels, two speakers per zone) and then you select a source, and it starts playing, simple as that.
- Josh
Yeah after thinking about it a bit the hdmi matrix wouldn't solve all my problems, specially because of audio, then I thought maybe there is some sort of audio only matrix, but in the end I'll probably end up spending more. I only want to split one of my hdmi signals anyways, and I could just as easily buy another appletv and not split anything, although the idea of splitting my ps3 and making sure the bluetooth controllers work from the other room was pretty intriguing.
Are those keypads pretty standard or do they only work with the one device they are meant to work with? I am asking because I am a little scared to wire the house tied to one manufacturer and then want to switch a few years later.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Are those keypads pretty standard or do they only work with the one device they are meant to work with? I am asking because I am a little scared to wire the house tied to one manufacturer and then want to switch a few years later.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Precision coaxial cable may be RG-6 in size, but every RG-6 coaxial cable is not precision rated. In fact, most "standard" coaxial cable is constructed with a steel center wire that is coated in copper and aluminum shielding. A precision coaxial cable has a solid copper center wire and copper coated shielding. The extra copper makes it better for conducting line level signals like audio and video outputs.
Here is an old comparison thread that I started when I was researching my whole house system. Keep in mind that it is 2.5 years old, so there is bound to be some new devices that are not listed.
According to my research back then, the Elan System 12 and the Xantech MRC88 both have local zone inputs. Unfortunately the Elan System 12 is pretty expensive, and the Xantech MRC88 is getting hard to find.
There may be newer equipment out there that offers local zone inputs, but since buying my B&K CT600, I haven't paid much attention to the features of the newer units.
EDIT - also keep in mind that you may still need to use precision coaxial cable and home run the local sources back to the main unit. Make sure you check the specifics of each device to make sure how the local devices are connected to the main unit.
Hope that helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by casolorz /forum/post/16824028
Is "precision coaxial cable" just rg6?
I don't mind the local source only being available on that location.
Also I am planning on using the IR keypads and getting a logitech harmony at least on two of the rooms.
Can you point me at the whole house audio systems that allow local sources? preferably something that won't tie me to just one brand.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Precision coaxial cable may be RG-6 in size, but every RG-6 coaxial cable is not precision rated. In fact, most "standard" coaxial cable is constructed with a steel center wire that is coated in copper and aluminum shielding. A precision coaxial cable has a solid copper center wire and copper coated shielding. The extra copper makes it better for conducting line level signals like audio and video outputs.
Here is an old comparison thread that I started when I was researching my whole house system. Keep in mind that it is 2.5 years old, so there is bound to be some new devices that are not listed.
According to my research back then, the Elan System 12 and the Xantech MRC88 both have local zone inputs. Unfortunately the Elan System 12 is pretty expensive, and the Xantech MRC88 is getting hard to find.
There may be newer equipment out there that offers local zone inputs, but since buying my B&K CT600, I haven't paid much attention to the features of the newer units.
EDIT - also keep in mind that you may still need to use precision coaxial cable and home run the local sources back to the main unit. Make sure you check the specifics of each device to make sure how the local devices are connected to the main unit.
Hope that helps.
While doing a little research to update that comparison thread, I found that the HTD MC2-86 does in fact allow you to connect 1 source to each local zone's keypad (or via a connection plate that is wired back to the keypad). So this is more along the lines of what you are looking for I think.
Just wanted to pass that along.
Just wanted to pass that along.
Yeah I am really leaning towards the HTD, its affordable and does most of what I need.
If I want to have a zone have a lot of speakers, not just two, what all would I need? basically I want to have speakers on my deck, and outside patio, but it would all be the same zone.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Quote:
Originally Posted by sic0048 /forum/post/16828456
While doing a little research to update that comparison thread, I found that the HTD MC2-86 does in fact allow you to connect 1 source to each local zone's keypad (or via a connection plate that is wired back to the keypad). So this is more along the lines of what you are looking for I think.
Just wanted to pass that along.
Yeah I am really leaning towards the HTD, its affordable and does most of what I need.
If I want to have a zone have a lot of speakers, not just two, what all would I need? basically I want to have speakers on my deck, and outside patio, but it would all be the same zone.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Please remember, that the local source actually occupies a source. So if you have 8 total sources possible, and need 3 local sources, you have 5 left.
HTD looks like the best bang for the buck, I wish it had RS232 support. I went with Russound because of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by casolorz /forum/post/16828521
Yeah I am really leaning towards the HTD, its affordable and does most of what I need.
If I want to have a zone have a lot of speakers, not just two, what all would I need? basically I want to have speakers on my deck, and outside patio, but it would all be the same zone.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Please remember, that the local source actually occupies a source. So if you have 8 total sources possible, and need 3 local sources, you have 5 left.
HTD looks like the best bang for the buck, I wish it had RS232 support. I went with Russound because of this.
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