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multi-zone video

3359 Views 12 Replies 8 Participants Last post by mbarn18, Jan 16, 2009

talguy

Discussion Starter · Jan 14, 2008

how would I get my hometheater pc to output video to different zones with each zone having different video files playing for each zone. I know I would need a graphics card with multiple video outs but what software would I need to accomplish this.

Evan

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smoothtlk

· #2 · Jan 14, 2008

First, what is the issue with playing the same hard drive movie on multiple PCs at once?

Second, you can output your graphics card / sound card output to a matrix switcher to distribute the same movie to one or more Watch locations. Of course you can have multiple source hardware to watch diff things at two diff Watch locations.

You can use a dual or quad head VGA card and output two diff video. If you use extended desktop then you could play two diff movies at once, but not recommended. This is a kludgy setup and not the best choice. People do this for mini touchscreens controlling what is playing on the main monitor, but very unusual to have each display for a unique watch location.

The other way is to have an HTPC at each Watch location with access to a file server with your movie / music files. This is pretty common too.

The "normal" way is the matrix switcher.

Then, you need to work out a control system to orchestrate all of the switching, source control, media, etc. Either a very expensive embedded system, or a PC software based solution.

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stanger89

· #3 · Jan 14, 2008

SageTV with extenders would do it.

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talguy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 14, 2008

smoothtlk,

I know that a matrix switch would do it if I wanted to distribute the video feed to multiple TVs, but with the HTPC I want to eliminate the need for a dvd/hd dvd/ blu ray player for just this one all around device. Now what is a htpc with a massive dvd repository that would allow multiple users to only watch at the same time. Not a very good all in one device that is.

so a program like jriver would not support multi-zone video like it does for audio. I know that video consumes more resources of the computer than audio but lets just say I have a pretty bitchin setup, would it still work

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Suntan

· #5 · Jan 14, 2008

It is not so much a matter of how bitchin your setup is. PCs just aren't setup to handle multiple users concurrently. More precisely, they are not setup to handle multiple video streams. You could probably cobble something to play 2 regular dvds at the same time using VMR (or whatever new video renderer that Vista has) as overlay will only work for one video stream at a time. I wouldn't even try with HD formats. You can test this by opening multiple instances of your video player on the same screen and try to play different videos of each.

Sound is a bigger issue. You would probably need to use different media players for each different stream, with each one configured to use a different audio card in your computer the list of issues continues to control, be it Girder with remotes or every place sharing keyboard usage, etc. etc.

As such, Stanger's suggestion of running a server client setup is the most realistic way to do it. One computer to hold all the media (it can also do playback at one place) and then other computers (or extenders) to do playback at other places. All connected through a network. You don't have to use Sage or any other dedicated software. If you have a network of computers, you can just access the video/dvd rips through regular network sharing. If you want to use extenders, or have a pretty user interface, then you will need something like Sage.

-Suntan

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talguy

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 14, 2008

I have asked this question cause HTPC and video/audio distribution is a new area for me as it is for many people on this forum.

Suntan, i didn't realize how many problems it would cause doing this.

Quote:
SageTV with extenders would do it.

i looked into sagetv extenders and yea I can see that they would work for me, but how well do they transport 1080p/i content over one cat6 network cable.

I want to at least have two zones that can watch different video files from my repository. So think about this a little more could I use two HTPC and have them share a Raid array that is not connected to network but to each computer via a sata connection or would that cause more problems again.

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smoothtlk

· #7 · Jan 14, 2008

Talguy,

For Multizone video, the video rendering portion is what takes some CPU. Modern graphics cards take most of this work off of the CPU, but rendering multiple videos on a single PC is still not recommended, especially since you are talking now about Blu-Ray / HD DVD.

Two HTPCs can easily share a RAID array, as long as that array IS connected to the network (so the two PCs can share the content). This is VERY common to do. Don't go down the shared SATA as that is not common, and not needed.

One of the HTPC's can host the RAID for both HTPCs (or more than two).

To manage multizone video, look into our DVDLobby product. Combine that with TheaterTek video rendering software (one instance running on each PC) for SD DVD and PowerDVD or ArcSoftTMT for Blu-Ray / HD DVD content (again, once instance per PC). DVDLobby can then orchestrate file location, and Watch Location launch and remote control commands to the players.

HD Sage Xtenders work fine. I have one...works great.

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kapone

· #8 · Jan 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by talguy /forum/post/12810219

I have asked this question cause HTPC and video/audio distribution is a new area for me as it is for many people on this forum.

Suntan, i didn't realize how many problems it would cause doing this.

i looked into sagetv extenders and yea I can see that they would work for me, but how well do they transport 1080p/i content over one cat6 network cable.

I want to at least have two zones that can watch different video files from my repository. So think about this a little more could I use two HTPC and have them share a Raid array that is not connected to network but to each computer via a sata connection or would that cause more problems again.

This is an often brought up and a "total confusion" topic. Most people don't even know where to start when they talk about multizone video when it comes to HTPCs.

What they need to realize is that, in an "HTPC" role, (for the most part, since doing multi zone audio is relatively easier and possible) and especially as a video player, an HTPC is functionally equivalent to a DVD player. Can you take a DVD player and distribute its audio/video signals throughout the house and expect to play DIFFERENT sources in each zone? No. The same holds true for an HTPC.

Now, where it gets into the fuzzy zone, is with a client server setup, where you have a central server that hosts your media and clients that connect to it. Can it handle multiple source files/streams and multiple zones/players? Sure can. But now it's no longer a DVD player (functionally speaking), is it?

Think of it as a stack of DVD players sitting in a closet somewhere, with some very complex wiring to aggregate and distribute their outputs to different zones, and some IR wiring from the zones to the closet to control them. An HTPC based client server system is way way WAY simpler to setup and maintain.

checklist:

- Central Server with large enough storage that is shared.

- Client HTPC(s)

- CAT5/5E/6 wiring connecting the clients to the server (and the Internet) through a switch and/or router.

Once you have your files on a central server, any number of zones/players can play ANY file from your media store. From a networking perspective, the bandwidth being consumed is BETWEEN that player and the server, not throughout your entire network. If another player connects to the server and starts playing a stream, the server is now running two streams but each is ending at a particular player.

A typical HD (movie/recording etc) will almost never break a 50mbps bitrate. If you are running a gigabit switch and dedicated (CAT5/6) wiring, a gigabit connection is capable of atleast 800mbps (after taking account transmission losses and networking overheads). This means you can easily run 15 HD streams from one server.

Yes, a typical desktop PC with an integrated NIC acting as your "server" will certainly not hit that rate, but if you are trying to run that many streams, I'm assuming you will get decent hardware for your "server" and include server grade/PRO NICs in it, which can sustain a 600-800mbps trasmission rate for extended lengths of time.

Hope this helps.

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Storme

· #9 · Jan 14, 2008

cat6 which supports gigabit, can handle 1080p streams about 100 times over.

SageTV HD media extender is your perfect solution. It can play back a lot of file formats, including MKV containers and H264 files and also VOB files.

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talguy

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone /forum/post/12810437

This is an often brought up and a "total confusion" topic. Most people don't even know where to start when they talk about multizone video when it comes to HTPCs.

What they need to realize is that, in an "HTPC" role, (for the most part, since doing multi zone audio is relatively easier and possible) and especially as a video player, an HTPC is functionally equivalent to a DVD player. Can you take a DVD player and distribute its audio/video signals throughout the house and expect to play DIFFERENT sources in each zone? No. The same holds true for an HTPC.

Now, where it gets into the fuzzy zone, is with a client server setup, where you have a central server that hosts your media and clients that connect to it. Can it handle multiple source files/streams and multiple zones/players? Sure can. But now it's no longer a DVD player (functionally speaking), is it?

Think of it as a stack of DVD players sitting in a closet somewhere, with some very complex wiring to aggregate and distribute their outputs to different zones, and some IR wiring from the zones to the closet to control them. An HTPC based client server system is way way WAY simpler to setup and maintain.

checklist:

- Central Server with large enough storage that is shared.

- Client HTPC(s)

- CAT5/5E/6 wiring connecting the clients to the server (and the Internet) through a switch and/or router.

Once you have your files on a central server, any number of zones/players can play ANY file from your media store. From a networking perspective, the bandwidth being consumed is BETWEEN that player and the server, not throughout your entire network. If another player connects to the server and starts playing a stream, the server is now running two streams but each is ending at a particular player.

A typical HD (movie/recording etc) will almost never break a 50mbps bitrate. If you are running a gigabit switch and dedicated (CAT5/6) wiring, a gigabit connection is capable of atleast 800mbps (after taking account transmission losses and networking overheads). This means you can easily run 15 HD streams from one server.

Yes, a typical desktop PC with an integrated NIC acting as your "server" will certainly not hit that rate, but if you are trying to run that many streams, I'm assuming you will get decent hardware for your "server" and include server grade/PRO NICs in it, which can sustain a 600-800mbps trasmission rate for extended lengths of time.

Hope this helps.

Wow, that clears up a lot. Thanks everyone for all the information and for correcting my some what stupid and annoying question.

Evan

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Suntan

· #11 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by talguy /forum/post/12815721

Wow, that clears up a lot. Thanks everyone for all the information and for correcting my some what stupid and annoying question.

Evan

Not at all. A lot of people start down the path of multi playback thinking they can get one machine to do all the work (myself included). The fact is that you can possibly cobble it up to make it happen. However, unless you are on a real tight budget, it is way more hassle than it is worth.

-Suntan

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IMind

· #12 · Jan 15, 2008

People often under estimate the cost of doing multizone distribution... and over estimate the cost of doing multiple HTPCs using software extenders or just sharing a RAID array. I really think this ends up being the best solution, that or maybe one of those networked net appliances (which is really just a small linux PC anyway)... but the net media players don't work anywhere near as well as a low end PC with a good video card and they cost almost as much.

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mbarn18

· #13 · Jan 16, 2009

I have an all pc setup with a raid server and I use this little a/v dist app called SinCast from this company called Sinderon. It handles a lot of different source formats and puts out multiple streams to my pc clients. It uses vlc underneath. Good for party mode type use.

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