[rickyhgarcia]

Just looking for some guidance...

I am in the process of adding channels to my HT rig. Currently I have six channels, using three 30+ years old Moscode 300 amps. These are 80´s vintage stereo hybrid amps, tubes input stage, Mosfet output stage. These are rated at 150W per channel into 8ohms, and 225W per channel into 4ohms. These I intend to use for my front, center and surround speakers since they are very good at what they do. My front, center and surround speakers are Magnepan 1.7, CC5/DWM and LRS respectively. These amps were "modernized" by the OEM, so I expect another 30+ years more service out of them.

I can add 5 channels for two surround back and two ATMOS speakers; or 7 channels if I decide on two surround back and four ATMOS speakers. Three amps, that I guess are similar in price, quality and audiophile or near audiophile sound reproduction, have caught my interest. These are: ATI´s AT-4005, Outlaw Audio´s 7220, and Parasounds´s HALO A52+. I know this forum have many Monolith´s 7X fans, which I know have very good specs, however, I am not so sure about its quality. I live in South America, and returning these behemoth amps for repair is really not an option. So I am looking for an amp, like my Moscodes, that would last me many years without a hitch. And lastly, I guess I prefer A-A/B amplification.

I do not have the opportunity to audition the amps listed above. I simply chose them because of number of channels, and similar (actually a few watts higher) power rating to my Moscodes. Any experience on these amps that can be shared will be greatly appreciated.

 

[mlknez]

The Bryston amps have a 20 year warranty. Here is their 5 channel unit:
http://www.bryston.com/products/power_amps/9BSST-2.html

 

[zorax2]

Given where you're at geographically, the warranty - even a good one - is something you'll never want to use given the huge expense of shipping and time to send and return something out of your country. With this in mind, I recommend the ATI. They're an awesome company, have great technical support, an international presence and make bulletproof equipment.

If I recall correctly, the 4000 series uses modular boards for each amplification channel and all of the weight is from a transformer(s). If there are any issues, they are almost always with the separate amplification boards (similar to a graphics card in a PC) that can be pulled and repaired locally or small enough to be economically sent back to ATI for repair or exchange. You could call ATI and just ask them about how they service products internationally. The new ATI class D amps are supposed to be great for many applications and are much lighter. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[WOKNROX]

Just wanted to chime in here to say...
Ricky those Moscode 300's you have are really nice amplifiers.

You said you recently had them renewed.. did you have them updated with the much bigger caps and to use 4 matching tubes..?

Did you have Goerge Kaye do the work..?

 

[canyoncreek]

Definitely ncore class D. ATI uses linear supply, so still heavy. Find a SMPS build...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[WOKNROX]

I'm looking at some of your guy's equipment in your sig's... and then reading your suggestions... have any of you ever spent some good time with gear that's of the quality of the stuff the OP has..?

I have and do... not to quote the Haulk but...class D.. really..lol

I guess for Atmos.

 

[rickyhgarcia]

The Bryston amps have a 20 year warranty. Here is their 5 channel unit:
http://www.bryston.com/products/power_amps/9BSST-2.html

Indeed a very good amp. At US$13,000 it way outside of my budget. I know the 9BSST can be bought used, with perhaps 5/6 years warranty left, but still at a price similar than the ones I listed in "NEW" condition. Would love to own a Bryston, but cannot afford it.

 

[rickyhgarcia]

Just wanted to chime in here to say...
Ricky those Moscode 300's you have are really nice amplifiers.

You said you recently had them renewed.. did you have them updated with the much bigger caps and to use 4 matching tubes..?

Did you have Goerge Kaye do the work..?

Yes....they are great amplifiers. The Moscodes and the Maggies are a great combination. They warm up a bit, but nothing that will start a fire. I am the original owner to one of the three, bought it in 1985. The other two I bought in original state from eBay and George Kaye for $500 each about 7 years ago. I am seeing them being listed in eBay now for over $1000, so in addition they seem to be gaining value.

Yes and Yes...I had them renewed by the OEM, aka George Kaye. Bigger caps, Cardas speaker posts, Cardas goldplated RCA connectors, new tubes, in fact everything that he had on the Menu that can be done. It was about $1400 for each amp. I also asked to replace the power cord with an IEC connector so I can use the power cord of my choice.

Recently (two months ago) George fabricated an on/off power switch protector that I installed myself. No soldering was required, he made it so it was bolted and plugged. The original amps did not have a surge suppressor for the power switch, so they would arced and became stuck (luckily on the on position), and I was forced to use a power strip. With the fix, no more sparks when I switch them on.

If you are planning on buying any of the old Moscodes (i.e. 150, 300 or 600), go for it. The advantage of George still being active guarantees that "modernizing" these amps will remain with the original design concepts, and sound!!

 

[rickyhgarcia]

Definitely ncore class D. ATI uses linear supply, so still heavy. Find a SMPS build...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Thanks for your reply. The only beef I have against the class D amps is my Magnepan speakers. The Maggies can drop way below 4ohm impedance, according to Magnepan. Therefore, they do not recommend that they are driven by class D amps. Although I have a pair of "renewed" 8ohm ADS L1290 speakers for my back surround, that would work great with the class D amp, I know I am going to switch things around. To me, switching around is parts of owning these types of systems.

 

[rickyhgarcia]

Given where you're at geographically, the warranty - even a good one - is something you'll never want to use given the huge expense of shipping and time to send and return something out of your country. With this in mind, I recommend the ATI. They're an awesome company, have great technical support, an international presence and make bulletproof equipment.

If I recall correctly, the 4000 series uses modular boards for each amplification channel and all of the weight is from a transformer(s). If there are any issues, they are almost always with the separate amplification boards (similar to a graphics card in a PC) that can be pulled and repaired locally or small enough to be economically sent back to ATI for repair or exchange. You could call ATI and just ask them about how they service products internationally. The new ATI class D amps are supposed to be great for many applications and are much lighter. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thanks for your reply. I haven´t considered the modular approach by ATI, and that it can be sent , if required, for repair by parts. That is a big plus. The ATI, even though is more money that the others under consideration, has always been my first choice.

 

[Stereojeff]

Thanks for your reply. The only beef I have against the class D amps is my Magnepan speakers. The Maggies can drop way below 4ohm impedance, according to Magnepan. Therefore, they do not recommend that they are driven by class D amps. Although I have a pair of "renewed" 8ohm ADS L1290 speakers for my back surround, that would work great with the class D amp, I know I am going to switch things around. To me, switching around is parts of owning these types of systems.

ATI's N-Core class D amps are very happy with low impedance.



Jeff

 

[zorax2]

Thanks for your reply. I haven´t considered the modular approach by ATI, and that it can be send , if required, for repair by parts. That is a big plus. The ATI, even though is more money that the others under consideration, has always been my first choice.

I purchased my ATI 1807 used and 1 of the channels went bad (from shipping???). With ATIs help, it was very easy to diagnose and replace the faulty board. If I recall correctly, they advance forwarded me a replacement board and asked me to send back the faulty board. I think all I had to pay was shipping and a very minimal fee for the board swap. It was the easiest electronics related repair / return I have ever done.

I've listened to systems with both the Signature 4000 and 6000 series amps and the entire systems both sounded incredible in the short listening experiences I had with those systems. The owner of each system had tried many amps and I think the ATI amps were end game for them as they both felt the ATIs were the best amps for their systems.

 

[mmiles]

R. G. take a look at Audio Control Savoy and Pantages.

Excellent performance and bullet proof. Not had any issues in my system or customer’s for 10 years.

 

[Jonas2]

Thanks for your reply. The only beef I have against the class D amps is my Magnepan speakers. The Maggies can drop way below 4ohm impedance, according to Magnepan. Therefore, they do not recommend that they are driven by class D amps. Although I have a pair of "renewed" 8ohm ADS L1290 speakers for my back surround, that would work great with the class D amp, I know I am going to switch things around. To me, switching around is parts of owning these types of systems.

Stable into

 

[Jonas2]

I have and do... not to quote the Haulk but...class D.. really..lol

I guess for Atmos.

Ouch! I'd happily pit a D-Sonic against many of the much "snobbier" amps....

 

[rickyhgarcia]

Stable into

 

[WOKNROX]

Ouch! I'd happily pit a D-Sonic against many of the much "snobbier" amps....

I knew that would bring you out of the woodwork...lol

You have a very deep love for your D-sonic amplifiers.

I love the use of "snobier" but the pure fact is is that class A-AB (built right) is still the king of the amplifier war. The hybrids tube-SS amplifiers like the OP's are built right...

 

[WOKNROX]

Yes....they are great amplifiers. The Moscodes and the Maggies are a great combination. They warm up a bit, but nothing that will start a fire. I am the original owner to one of the three, bought it in 1985. The other two I bought in original state from eBay and George Kaye for $500 each about 7 years ago. I am seeing them being listed in eBay now for over $1000, so in addition they seem to be gaining value.

Yes and Yes...I had them renewed by the OEM, aka George Kaye. Bigger caps, Cardas speaker posts, Cardas goldplated RCA connectors, new tubes, in fact everything that he had on the Menu that can be done. It was about $1400 for each amp. I also asked to replace the power cord with an IEC connector so I can use the power cord of my choice.

Recently (two months ago) George fabricated an on/off power switch protector that I installed myself. No soldering was required, he made it so it was bolted and plugged. The original amps did not have a surge suppressor for the power switch, so they would arced and became stuck (luckily on the on position), and I was forced to use a power strip. With the fix, no more sparks when I switch them on.

If you are planning on buying any of the old Moscodes (i.e. 150, 300 or 600), go for it. The advantage of George still being active guarantees that "modernizing" these amps will remain with the original design concepts, and sound!!

Sounds like you have really stepped up your amplifiers and made an already very great amp/s to be a fantastic amp...
George does fantastic work and at a great price..!!

Looks like there are a few of them on the market now starting a 5 hundy. Theres one already tuned up $1200.

 

[Jonas2]

Thanks for your input...

Not familiar with D-Sonic or Pascal modules. Checked into the website, could not find Pascal module. The amps are only rated for 4 and 8 ohms. They do not mention lower loads.

Yeah, right on the main page, under general features, 2nd bullet point.... It's a very small company out of Texas.

https://www.d-sonic.com/content/D-Sonic Data Sheet.pdf

In case you're interested...

http://www.pascal-audio.com/

I knew that would bring you out of the woodwork...lol

You have a very deep love for your D-sonic amplifiers.

I love the use of "snobier" but the pure fact is is that class A-AB (built right) is still the king of the amplifier war. The hybrids tube-SS amplifiers like the OP's are built right...

HA! Well, somebody's gotta be the cheerleader.... And I've no doubt OP's amps are built right. (And I actually really like the McIntosh MA252 speaking of hybrids...). But given what OP was asking to do and the suggestions he mentioned, had to put that out there. OP said he "guessed he preferred A/AB"...." So, there is some doubt! And all kings eventually fall.... Now, back to my woodpile!

 

[WOKNROX]

I agree...no real need for a hybrid for Atmos...

If they can get class D to reproduce high frequencies better I'll start looking at them...