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Multiple reflections in the new Samsungs?

1486 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by btom, May 16, 2007

btom

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2007

While looking at the various PDP options the past month, I noticed all but the Pioneer show multiple reflections off the screen. The pioneer reflects like a single pane of glass whereas the others reflect like two parallel panes of glass. This includes the new 4254, 5054 Samsungs. I thought the new Samsungs used a single layer of glass similar to the Pioneers? Is that not the case? Thanks.

Tom.

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

itigap

· #2 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by btom /forum/post/0

While looking at the various PDP options the past month, I noticed all but the Pioneer show multiple reflections off the screen. The pioneer reflects like a single pane of glass whereas the others reflect like two parallel panes of glass. This includes the new 4254, 5054 Samsungs. I thought the new Samsungs used a single layer of glass similar to the Pioneers? Is that not the case? Thanks.

Tom.

Yes, it is not the case. Unfortunately it was misstated in another thread that Samsung this year moved to a single pane design. You can see by the weight specification that this is not the case.

Cheers,

Gary

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RandyWalters

· #3 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap /forum/post/0

Yes, it is not the case. Unfortunately it was misstated in another thread that Samsung this year moved to a single pane design. You can see by the weight specification that this is not the case. Cheers,

I think it was ZippyBongHits that said the new Samsung went to single layer glass like Pioneer has so maybe some new model has it where the older ones do not. I saw this double-reflection effect a few weeks back at BB and noticed that all the Plasmas on the wall had the effect with the exception of the Pioneers and oddly enough, an LG plasma on the same wall that only had a single reflection like the Pioneers. Whatever Samsungs they had on that wall were double-reflecting just like the Panasonics and other non-Pioneer/non-LG models. Man those BB salespeople like to push the Samsungs, and Fry's does too.

btom

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 15, 2007

Thanks Randy, Gary. I guess the LG is using a pioneer panel? After looking closely at the Samsung 4254 and Pioneer 4270, I ordered a Pioneer 4270 last week. But I cancelled the order as I want to see what the 4280 looks like. Anyway, I figure the 4270 can only come down in price in the meantime. Regards.

Tom.

itigap

· #5 · May 15, 2007

You know the reflection thing as a result of differing glass is interesting as there is more to it than simply a double image due to internal reflections between the layers. The nature or quality of the reflections also differs greatly among the different brands.

Go into a BB magnolia and ask them to kill the source so the displays go dark. Walk up the the displays and observe the reflections of the small ceiling spots in the glass of the various displays. I garrantee that this will be an eyeopener if you have never done it. You can do this while pictures are displayed also but it is even easier to see with them off.

Not only will you see double reflections, on all but Pioneer, but the nature of those reflections will astound you. You will see rays of light like points of a star emminating from the center of the reflections. Some of these points will be all white while on other brands they will actually be prizmatic. The optical distortions will amaze you (and perhaps make you throw up).

Then look at a Pioneer. There will be one small simple and non-distorted specular reflection for the light source. When I first saw this, it was a shocker.

You know, I keep wondering why other brands still use two panes. They are heaver to ship and you would think more expensive to manufacture. Glass is not cheap. I have never understood this.

Cheers,

Gary

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btom

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 15, 2007

Yes. I saw this as well. The pioneer had a clear specular reflection. The others had blurry double reflections some with rainbow hues. Though I have to say the Samsung picture was as good as the Pioneer (at least from what I could see in the store). Though being into optics (astronomy) the double reflections and optical quality of the glass weighed into my decision to order the 4270. Thanks again.

Tom.

discopaul

· #7 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap /forum/post/0

You know, I keep wondering why other brands still use two panes. They are heaver to ship and you would think more expensive to manufacture. Glass is not cheap. I have never understood this.

Cheers,

Gary

Perhaps there are technical reasons. I'm sure there are pros and cons to using using dual pane glass vs. glass and plastic.

dinb

· #8 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/0

Perhaps there are technical reasons. I'm sure there are pros and cons to using using dual pane glass vs. glass and plastic.

Reflections are only noticable from side angles... if you view the tv from straight on you will not see them. Or at least you shouldn't be able to

discopaul

· #9 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinb /forum/post/0

Reflections are only noticable from side angles... if you view the tv from straight on you will not see them.

That's my experience.

DeltaMW

· #10 · May 15, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap /forum/post/0

You know, I keep wondering why other brands still use two panes. They are heaver to ship and you would think more expensive to manufacture. Glass is not cheap. I have never understood this.

Cheers,

Gary

The only disadvantage I can think of in regard to using one pane of glass would be slightly louder buzzing.

Perhaps other brands don't use a single pane of glass because they may have to pay Pioneer a royalty to license the single pane technology...unless they come up with something different enough from Pio's technology.

Flyfishingdad

· #11 · May 15, 2007

First I have the Samsung 5054, I see no double reflections sitting here at home watching TV as I type. While my couch is centered, my recliner, which I am seated in right now, is

off to the side about 20 degrees. Of course there is reflection, but it isn't nearly as bad as my old 32" JVC CRT was when it was in this room before I got the plasma.

DDG1914

· #12 · May 16, 2007

"New 42- and 50-inch models in the PC5D and PB4D series include LG's "Clear Filter Pro" technology. Clear Filter Pro technology replaces the front glass filter with a thin film filter which reduces reflection and double imaging, providing a haze-free, crisp viewing experience."

I take that to mean that this plastic(?) filter is not bonded to the front glass pane like the Pioneers.

RandyWalters

· #13 · May 16, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDG1914 /forum/post/0

"New 42- and 50-inch models in the PC5D and PB4D series include LG's "Clear Filter Pro" technology. Clear Filter Pro technology replaces the front glass filter with a thin film filter which reduces reflection and double imaging, providing a haze-free, crisp viewing experience."

I take that to mean that this plastic(?) filter is not bonded to the front glass pane like the Pioneers.

So this explains why i saw the single reflection on that LG. I must say i was shocked that the anti-reflective quality was very similar to that of the Pioneer, and was surprised that it had pretty good PQ. For an LG that is.

When they say their "Clear Filter Pro technology replaces the front glass filter with a thin film filter" it take that to mean that they did away with the second layer of glass and applied a film filter to the remaining glass (like a tint film is applied to a window).

R11

· #14 · May 16, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/0

So this explains why i saw the single reflection on that LG. I must say i was shocked that the anti-reflective quality was very similar to that of the Pioneer, and was surprised that it had pretty good PQ. For an LG that is.

When they say their "Clear Filter Pro technology replaces the front glass filter with a thin film filter" it take that to mean that they did away with the second layer of glass and applied a film filter to the remaining glass (like a tint film is applied to a window).

That is the way I believe it was meant as well. One other thing I believe that the second pane of glass does whether you're sitting directly in front or at an angle has to do with the "haze" they mentioned. If you're in a room with higher ambient light, having that second pane sitting out in front of the actual light producing panel separated by an air gap, tends to wash out the picture somewhat overall. I really think that is why the Panasonic's can look very much like the Pio's in a darkened environment, but when placed out on a shelf/wall with bright lights they look much less saturated. Don't I remember reading that Panny was looking into going to the single pane w/bonded filter in upcoming gen's?

ron

btom

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 16, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfishingdad /forum/post/0

First I have the Samsung 5054, I see no double reflections sitting here at home watching TV as I type. While my couch is centered, my recliner, which I am seated in right now, is

off to the side about 20 degrees. Of course there is reflection, but it isn't nearly as bad as my old 32" JVC CRT was when it was in this room before I got the plasma.

That's interesting. I was looking at the 4254 at BB and it had double reflections. Maybe the 5054 is different? Or maybe BB just put a 4254 label on a 4253? Anyway the reflection off the top layer was about as bright as the single reflection on the pioneer, the second reflection was significantly dimmer.

Tom.

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