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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I'm not the only one with WAF and other constraints, but mine are fairly extreme....


1. Budget - About a $1,000 only because that seems to be a good price point for finding a nice sub. I'm replacing a nicely finished Velo ULD-12 that cost $900 18 years ago, so if I have to spend more....


2. Size requirements/limits - This is where the fun begins. It absolutely can't be any wider (in its narrower dimension) than 18" (and probably no longer than about 24"). The WAF and poor room acoustics places it behind our listening couch where there is only about 20" or so inches of clearance to a picture window, and with some clearance...voila.... I probably don't want it taller than about 24" either due to the WAF (my ULD is 17" tall so I might be able to sell her on some height inflation).


3. Room dimensions - A 17' square living room that connects to our upstairs and dining room, so it is 5,000 cu.ft. at a minimum with the sub seeing more volume than that. However, we are not shake-the-house HT'ers and my current 12" Velo with 100w rms seems to produce nearly enough SPL's for us. The real issue are the 33/66Hz or so resonances that this room shape creates. That's why I want a "well-behaved" (i.e., musical) sub since the boominess that the resonances bring out of a sub are very difficult to control (currently using a BFD, but even then the sound can get "blurry"). Note also that the WAF does not permit any acoustical treatments (and that the behind-the-couch location seems to excite these resonances less than any other location).


4. Primary uses - 80% HT, but I am only critical of a sub when it is boomy or during musical passages when the bass doesn't sound real. OTOH, I have no experience with what a stomping T-Rex should sound like, so whatever comes out of the sub during action movie effects is fine by me (as long as there is some reasonable slam and it isn't distorted). We also only listen at moderate SPL's, but do want to extend our current sub's 30Hz low-end.


6. Appearance requirements - This is the big issue:
  • Can't be front-firing (the wife don't want to see a grille and it will be a climbing park for our cats).
  • Needs to be a light wood finish (i.e., natural oak/maple). Wood veneer would be preferred (WAF), but vinyl is an acceptable compromise. Black (i.e., piano gloss, satin, commercial-blotchy...) is verboten.
  • Our room acoustics would lead one to recommend two smaller subs, but, unless we are talking two 10" cubes located side-by-side, the WAF won't permit this.

7. Timeframe - no rush (I've had my ULD for 18 years...what's another several months).


So I am looking for a mid-sized (i.e., no wider than 18") down-firing sub, probably sealed, that has a light wood or wood colored finish. I haven't found many good or certainly a "best" choice:
  • My preferred choice - get a custom-finished or unfinished Rythmik D15, but I haven't yet determined if this is possible.
  • Replace my ULD's speaker/amp with a Rythmik 12" custom install kit, though I haven't determined if this would work well.
  • Find someone to make me a DIY Rythmik DS1200s enclosure (I'm a terrible wood worker).
  • A Hsu VTF-2.3 or 3.3 - But how musical are these (vs. the Rythmiks), will the 2.2 have enough oomph or should I make the 3.3 fit (it is side-firing and will point towards the back of our couch, which supposedly isn't bad per Hsu)?
  • Two TBI Magellan VII's - this is not a choice anyone talks about here. The plus is that they fit under my couch so I can buy two. The bad is that it will cost $2,000 for subs that supposedly lack much "slam" even for those of modest demands.

Your thoughts about the above and whether there are some other choices (i.e., if there are any 10" cubes a pair of which would sound as good as a D15 and/or a manufacturer that will convert a front-firing sub to down-firing, etc.)?


Thanks!
 

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The only subwoofers that I know of which fit the bill are the ones you mentioned already. I don't know how musical the HSUs are vs the Rythmiks, but they are tighter and less boomy than most subwoofers. If you go with those, make sure there is a little clearance between the ports and whatever surface might be close to them, because it sounds like it might be in a tight space. The VTF3.3 is a powerful sub though, it would definitely raise the bar from your old velodyne.


If you want more options, you could search audiogon, for instance a quick look brings up this , which looks like it could fit your bill regarding aesthetics and size, although I have no idea of it's performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 /forum/post/16856367


Since you don't need shake the house type bass, this Dayton RS1200A might be a great fit. It's a sealed box that meets your size constraints, and features a very low distortion woofer powered by a 500W amp with a PEQ to squash one of those room nodes.

Hmm...Dayton...never heard of them, though the size and specs seem like a fit. Couldn't find a manufacturer's website - who makes it? Anyway, at least for the link, it's black which is one of my numerous WAF no-no's....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/16856542


The only subwoofers that I know of which fit the bill are the ones you mentioned already. I don't know how musical the HSUs are vs the Rythmiks, but they are tighter and less boomy than most subwoofers. If you go with those, make sure there is a little clearance between the ports and whatever surface might be close to them, because it sounds like it might be in a tight space. The VTF3.3 is a powerful sub though, it would definitely raise the bar from your old velodyne....

Yeah the VTF3.3 is compelling due to the press its received (vs. the relatively "below the radar" Rythmik - even Craigsub didn't list it) and supposedly musical for a beastly ported sub. Plenty of clearance for the ports - it will sit with the speaker facing the back of the couch with about a 2" clearance (the effect of which is a concern or at least an unknown) while the ports will be directed to the side with nothing in the way for 10' (but they won't be much below ear level, which is concern #2 - hearing the ports).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra /forum/post/16857390


... it's black which is one of my numerous WAF no-no's....

I don't have a suggestion but I can sympathize with the WAF. We've just hired an interior decorator and according to him, all of my gears are made for "a specialized room" and have no place in an open concept family room.


Good luck with your search for a new sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiaig /forum/post/16857539


I don't have a suggestion but I can sympathize with the WAF. We've just hired an interior decorator and according to him, all of my gears are made for "a specialized room" and have no place in an open concept family room.


Good luck with your search for a new sub.

Jeez, just what you wanted to hear!


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra /forum/post/16857390


Hmm...Dayton...never heard of them, though the size and specs seem like a fit. Couldn't find a manufacturer's website - who makes it? Anyway, at least for the link, it's black which is one of my numerous WAF no-no's....

Dayton is Parts Express in house brand. How about getting something kind of nice looking fabric like a table runner and placing it over the sub?
 

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Did I read your first post correctly? You have all these restrictions in color, size, driver placement for something that will go between a couch and a wall/window? If I am imagining correctly thinking how this will be it will be able to be visible, with your size restrictions, only if you get in a prone or kneeling position looking behind the couch.


This is something that for all purposes will be out of sight. This is a no brainer. It sounds as if you are taking a host of concessions vs her only one (letting you have a subwoofer at all). I hate to say this to any man, because I am married, but she should have more wiggle room on her restrictions, and you need to be the one to make that happen. Tell her that its going to be in a place that won't be seen in the first place and that your restrictions are nearly impossible to accommodate. She is apparently getting a room or more than likely a house that she wants and that you want a subwoofer without restrictions. That should be your compromise. Either that or you get a man cave that she or her over the top decorator can't touch.
 

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With all that said and given your budget, if there is NO way of getting around your restrictions and you want the maximum potential from your subwoofer, why not take measurments from the inside of the legs on the under side of your couch, pick a couple drivers (maybe the shiva 12" from diycable.com times 2, but I would have to check the mounting depth) and have a local cabinet maker build a box that will stay under your couch completely. Depth should be the only big restriction you have to work around in this situation. You should have plenty of box volume on this. I still stick by my first recommendation though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/16857684


Did I read your first post correctly? You have all these restrictions in color, size, driver placement for something that will go between a couch and a wall/window? If I am imagining correctly thinking how this will be it will be able to be visible, with your size restrictions, only if you get in a prone or kneeling position looking behind the couch.


This is something that for all purposes will be out of sight. This is a no brainer. It sounds as if you are taking a host of concessions vs her only one (letting you have a subwoofer at all). I hate to say this to any man, because I am married, but she should have more wiggle room on her restrictions, and you need to be the one to make that happen. Tell her that its going to be in a place that won't be seen in the first place and that your restrictions are nearly impossible to accommodate. She is apparently getting a room or more than likely a house that she wants and that you want a subwoofer without restrictions. That should be your compromise. Either that or you get a man cave that she or her over the top decorator can't touch.


OR -take her to a marriage counseler. I did and got everything I wanted for a HT setup. I was 63 at the time and she was digging her heels in. Had to put my gear the living room but it is over 6000 cu ft so I did fill it with bass and everything else I wanted. Check out my gear at the bottom of this post.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra /forum/post/16857467


Yeah the VTF3.3 is compelling due to the press its received (vs. the relatively "below the radar" Rythmik - even Craigsub didn't list it) and supposedly musical for a beastly ported sub. Plenty of clearance for the ports - it will sit with the speaker facing the back of the couch with about a 2" clearance (the effect of which is a concern or at least an unknown) while the ports will be directed to the side with nothing in the way for 10' (but they won't be much below ear level, which is concern #2 - hearing the ports).

The subwoofer facing the back of the couch with about 2 inches to spare is an IDEAL location. Dr. Hsu frequently recommends it.


As far as the ports being at ear level. The only issue with this is that to the extent that you were to push the subwoofer really hard, port noise might be audible.


Given the other restrictions your wife has put on you I wonder if she will allow you to play it all that loud.


Maybe you can play it louder when your wife isn't home. If you get many of those opportunities you would have to get used to the compromise. Possibility of port noise vs. spousal acceptance.


With the 3.3 is Maximum Output mode you may not experience much if any port noise.


People around here tend to listen at really high levels. If that describes you the 3.3 may not be the answer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiaig /forum/post/16857539


i don't have a suggestion but i can sympathize with the waf. We've just hired an interior decorator and according to him, all of my gears are made for "a specialized room" and have no place in an open concept family room.


Good luck with your search for a new sub.

your fired!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/16857684


Did I read your first post correctly? You have all these restrictions in color, size, driver placement for something that will go between a couch and a wall/window? If I am imagining correctly thinking how this will be it will be able to be visible, with your size restrictions, only if you get in a prone or kneeling position looking behind the couch.


This is something that for all purposes will be out of sight. This is a no brainer. It sounds as if you are taking a host of concessions vs her only one (letting you have a subwoofer at all). I hate to say this to any man, because I am married, but she should have more wiggle room on her restrictions, and you need to be the one to make that happen. Tell her that its going to be in a place that won't be seen in the first place and that your restrictions are nearly impossible to accommodate. She is apparently getting a room or more than likely a house that she wants and that you want a subwoofer without restrictions. That should be your compromise. Either that or you get a man cave that she or her over the top decorator can't touch.

All good points (and you might even add that I am PW'd), but this is an existing room with an existing 17"x17"x21" sub and even in this location it is fairly (though not extremely) visible. It's our living room and you can readily see the sub when you walk in the front door. Further I am a person whose interior design tastes are not to be trusted, so I do somewhat rely on her sense of good taste (even if it makes me work harder). And I do sometimes wonder why we built out our basement into a shop and exercise area but without an HT, but the truth is that our living room is beautiful and I like sitting there (vs. a man cave)...and I've sunk so much time and effort into the in-wall speakers, etc. that there's no turning back....
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/16857834


With all that said and given your budget, if there is NO way of getting around your restrictions and you want the maximum potential from your subwoofer, why not take measurments from the inside of the legs on the under side of your couch, pick a couple drivers (maybe the shiva 12" from diycable.com times 2, but I would have to check the mounting depth) and have a local cabinet maker build a box that will stay under your couch completely. Depth should be the only big restriction you have to work around in this situation. You should have plenty of box volume on this. I still stick by my first recommendation though.

There is some room under the couch (7-1/2"h x 36"d), it is a location that would take care of alot of ills, and is the idea behind the TBI Magellan VI (which is 5.5"h) though at a cost of $1,250 for one (and its design begs for two). Will take a look at your suggestion, though I'm not much of a DIY'er.


On 2nd thought, I can't imagine that any 12" driver would fit into a 5.5"h space with or without an enclosure, though you may know something I don't....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranormalg35 /forum/post/16858068

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html


WAF +amillion....

Good to see the thumbs up for the Rythmik. If you saw my first post you'll note that the D15 is my first choice, BUT the WAF officer won't permit black (I'm trying to detemine from Rythmik if I can get it in another finish or unfinished). How did you decide to go with the D15 and/or have you heard it vs. any of the other popular subs here (i.e., the VTF-3.3, SB-12+, etc.) or a Velodyne?
 
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