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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, currently I have a SVS SB12+ that I´m testing in my Focal 1007 Be setup, and at first I was really pleased with its performance, but having used it for a couple of weeks I feel that even though it goes really deep I find that it lacks some definition at around 35-50 hz, which was more important for me than getting 25 hz notes in my room. So now it looks as I will be sending it back at getting a cheaper, but more musical sub for my setup. The SB12 was awesome on films, but since I listen 98% to music, I need instead a sub with tight, well defined bass around 35-55 hz, rather than true deep bass.


My candidates are these:

- Rel Stampede (can get a good deal)

- ML Dynamo

- Focal SW700s or V (Can get a really good deal)


Am I missing some obvious alternatives?
 

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Road not taken, or as often anyway...



Based on what I have heard, I concur on the Dynamo for musicality and ability to blend with the mains seamlessly. You won't give up extension, but output may be more suitable for smaller rooms or more moderate volumes. If you need more volume, the Abyss gives more and retains the same essential sound quality as the Dynamo.


If response and musicality in the 30-50 hz range is more important to you than extreme low end, then also check out the newest line of PSB subs. All are very musical, and are moderately priced as well ($300 to $700 street prices). Seldom see them mentioned here, maybe limited distribution, but worth the effort to check them out.


Don't rule out the Rythmik Audio kits (search the DIY area of this forum); superb sound quality, good output and extension. These kits can easily be built from pre-built PartsExpress cabinets with total cost in the $500-600 dollar range.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfisher /forum/post/0


Have you run REQW to see what the response in your room is? What you think is a lack of definition may be a null in your room. I have an SB12+ and I have not noticed a lack of definition in that range.

The road even less taken.



Good suggestion, may just be placement.
 

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baring placement issues, which it most likely is, ACI Force XL is a nice alternative. It is small, but can hit down to 20hz with authority in smaller rooms. i have owned the titan and now own the MaestroXL which offer more of what the Force XL offers. Similar sq, more SPL in the larger models.
 

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ML grotto.very good for ht and really excells in music.Very tight sub.Nice to look at also for waf.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophile82 /forum/post/0


Well, currently I have a SVS SB12+ that I´m testing in my Focal 1007 Be setup, and at first I was really pleased with its performance, but having used it for a couple of weeks I feel that even though it goes really deep I find that it lacks some definition at around 35-50 hz, which was more important for me than getting 25 hz notes in my room. So now it looks as I will be sending it back at getting a cheaper, but more musical sub for my setup. The SB12 was awesome on films, but since I listen 98% to music, I need instead a sub with tight, well defined bass around 35-55 hz, rather than true deep bass.

I do wonder if it has anything to do with your placement. I use a pair of SB12+'s and my impression is just the opposite of what you have observed. To me, the SB12+ does not go very deep, but does play exceptionally clean. I think it is one of the best musical subs I've heard, but not necessarily the best for HT.


If you have yours in the corner, try moving it out or away from the wall a little.


Have you tried taking any frequency measurements?
 

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On the SB12-Plus Parametric EQ, set the Freq to 20Hz, Q to Lo, and Level to Max -- that's the best sounding lowend rolloff for music. Add the room comp to this as necessary. Try getting the sub out of the corner and placing it near your mains.


The only sub I can think to add to those already mentioned, based on the good reports of others, would be the Epos ELS Sub:
http://www.epos-acoustics.com/produc...&lookup=elssub

which over here is about $50-$100 more expensive than the SB12-Plus.
 

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I honestly don't think that for less money or even for somewhat more money you can get a better sub for music than the SB12+.


Contact SVS before you give up on it.


Also, get a SPL meter at Radio Shack. It's under $50.
 

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FYI, Audiophite is a student in Norway, and those Focals he has are $4k mini monitors -- so we're really 'pushing the envelope' to get a timbre match in his price range



I know you know, Audiophyte, that at bass frequencies the speaker enclosure IS your room, and room treatments are not optional to match bass with your level of equipment. For about $200 you can get a Behringer calibration microphone and phantom power and a Behringer "BFD" equalizer -- that, plus a free computer program REW (you do need a computer and a good sound card) will give you very good room EQ -- here's the forum to learn about it:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/


Hope this helps!
 

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In lieu of an spl meter try a room mode calculator . With it you can find the frequency of any room modes in your subwoofer's operating range. It doesn't tell you the amplitude/level or the bandwidth/Q of the mode, so I'd simply start with maximum cut and minimum bandwidth on each mode with the SB's parametric eq until the sound improved. I would also look into further isolating your subwoofer from the floor with an auralex subdude or something similar as it will significantly tighten the sub's sound especially if your floor is wood on joists.
 

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Get some bass traps, and an eq if after the bass traps you still need one. If you have a dip at 35-50Hz, it's the room, not the sub. Changing subs and dropping a different one there won't fix the problem.


Only fixing the room, with bass traps, maybe an eq, and possibly with a different sub/LP location if that's possible, will fix your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I´ve been working a bit with placement, and have tried several different spots the last three days, also experimented with subwoofer settings, but maybe my room isn`t very suitable for deep bass. I appreciate all the hints you have provided me with. As this is not my own appartment I can´t install room altering objects here.
 

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Nobody's talking about room-altering objects. You can put panels or corner wedges (gikacoustics.com - Tri-Traps) on the floor without even making holes in the walls.
 

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A few more thoughts:


Often people in your area have a sub you could listen to -- is there a local forum you could post your desire to audition subs on?

The only one I'm aware of is dvdplaza.fi mostly in Finnish...


You may be able to get advice from other Focal owners here:
http://www.audioasylum.com/index.html

If you use their Search engine look at the options carefully it's 'different'



The first place to put bass treatments is your upper corners -- all it takes are inexpensive pillows (open weave fabric with loose fill is best) stuck up in the corners with tacks or whatever -- even something as small as a tennis ball on a fish hook suspended on fishing line about 10cm out from the corner will break up the corner mode slightly. Search the forums for DIY acoustical treatments...
 

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I can see pillows and tennis balls helping with higher frequncies, but not sub-100Hz, or even sub-200Hz, bass frequencies. I could be wrong, but I think you need pretty thick absorption in order to get deep enough to affect the bass.
 

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My friend: your room is only 18 square meters, why do you need a subwoofer at all?

Your Focals are best suited for small ensembles, jazz and vocal. Do you hear mostly loud rock? then the finesse of the Focals are not for your kind of music, even with a subwoofer.

In any case your room is tiny and your budget too, maybe you are overloading the room, so try the PSB sub someone else told you, it´s cheap and clean, don´t run with the sub that gives you more bass: usually it´s not the most accurate.

Finally: your speakers are really neutral, don´t mix with something inferior, you will be wasting the money you invested.
 
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