[PongAdds]

If you guys had to pick the features for a projector that are most important for HT use, what would they be? Is digital component video a necessity- is it much better than standard component video? What inputs would you include, and what specs are most important to this end?


Thanks in advance.

 

[neog]

I think at the sub $1500.00 level your options will be very limited, as there are not many at that price point. (AE-100, CX1?)


---neog

 

[Andre Sveen]

With such a low budget you have to accept what you get.


In a HT the contrast the projector can produce is very important.


Don't think so much about inputs. If you are going to use HTPC you will only need the VGA input.


Light output is also important, but in a dark cave you can use almost anything. Some heavy curtains and no light spill from nearby rooms and you have done enough.

 

[PongAdds]

Ok, better question: what are important things to you in a digital HT projector within a reasonable consumer price (under $5k)? I changed my post above for this. And this isn't necessarily an HTPC system, so in that case what other inputs should be looked for? Do decent HT projectors have digital component video or standard analog component video?

 

[Namlemez]

Whats digital component video?


Anyway, under $5k your options are very great. I suggest a little research on your part

 

[Alan Gouger]

A presentation projector is not designed for HT use so it lacks certain features which is why they cost a lot less.


If you want them to add these features the price will go up and that projector you are describing is hear now. The are called HT projectors.


While the price of these presentation units are getting cheaper thats not the case on the HT side. The technology is still to new and each generation keeps getting better and better with new features and better performance which justifies them keeping the price where it is at.


We were told the new HD 2 chip would cost less passing the savings on to the consumer. I dont think thats going to happen any time soon. If not then hopefully TI will jump in and say something to its licensees.

 

[ryan330i]

Something I inferred from Alan's post is that the main differences between HT projectors (projectors from HT companies) and presentation projectors are features. If Alan is not claiming this, then I am sorry for mis-interpreting.


I think many on this forum would argue that the main difference are not features, but the sales, service, and marketing approach of the manufacturer. I am of that opinion and will use my projector, the Panasonic 711XU,Street value ~3K, to support my opinion.


The 711XU is marketed as a presentation projector, but it has no glaring weaknesses for video presentation. Lets look at some of the specs:


Contrast

Weakest stat by far. Only 400:1. Most DLPs and a few LCDs can easily beat this. Those that are used to CRT projectors, or are very picky videophiles cannot live with LCD contrast, but for those who are looking for a big screen experience, 1000:1 CR and above is not mandatory.


Panel dimensions

The Panasonic is XGA, which is not widescreen, but it has a widescreen mode, as well as an option to view 4x3 material within the 16x9 panel. This is something anyone using this projector on a 16x9 screen or low resolution video signals will love. While you are not using all the pixels you paid for, you are still paying considerably less per pixel than for a Sharp 9000.


Noise:

Low mode is very quiet. More quiet that most DLP HT projectors. Anything above 40 is starting to be a problem for HT use.


Scaler and De-Interlacer

These two functions of a projector are the most important if you are considering just hooking it up to a DVD player. The 711XU's internal scaling and de-interlacing is well regarded and should suit someone on a budget well. Many projectors (some even HT) are regarded as needing an outboard scaler or de-interlacer for a good picture.


Beyond this, in general make sure you match your projector choice to the needs of your room (brightness, distance, mounting options, hookups). If you look for these types of characteristics in a projector you should enjoy it whichever projector you pick.

 

[RobertWood]

PongAdds,


Rather than "analog" vs "digital" component the two types of component signals are called interlaced and progressive. The good news is that most any recently designed digital projector model which is equipped with component input capability will accept either an interlaced component or a progressive component signal.


Bob Wood

 

[Alan Gouger]

ryan


Lets look at some of the features found on the Seleco HT300 verses a presentation projector. Because I have been playing CRT for years and because I am fortunate enough to see a wide gamma of projectors for me it is essential that I have the ability to adjust and tweak my projector to optimize its picture quality for HT presentation. Thats also what the ISF is all about.


Some nice features you get with the Seleco that you do not see on a presentation unit:


Lens shift.

Electronic keystone H/V

Sealed light path

Custom filtered color reel with real reds not orange red.

Choice of gamma settings.

Access to the RGB controls for the upper end and lower end of the gray scale.

Built in aspect ratio control including the ability to customize your own. For me this is very important. I use a scope lens and need the ability to stretch HDTV.

A 6000 hour bulb.

Superior blacks and no light spill.

Free software upgrades almost every couple of months.

Multiple memory settings for each input.

Faroudja de interlacing so no need for an out board scaler.

RGBRGB color wheel at 5x speed.


I am not bashing presentation units Im just pointing out features that your extra dollars buy you when purchasing a HT projector.


Having said this I am trying a ls110 this weekend for my living room. I do not need any thing that critical for this room and some of these projectors exceed my needs for this room.

 

[xris2o0o]

The Seleco 300 really has a 6000 hour bulb?


Chris

 

[Alan Gouger]

Hi Chris


Yup 6000 hours.

 

[xris2o0o]

Nice, thats impressive.. For some that could last years..


Chris

 

[ryan330i]

Alan,


Although I could point out where the Panasonic matches up well with the Seleco on some HT features you mention, I won't try to claim that the thought that went into the Selco for HT went into the Panasonic. I understand you are not bashing presentation projectors, and I am not trying to bash HT projectors or claim there is no reason to buy them.


But consider this: As you have admitted, the Panasonic AE100 is an HT projector, despite the price point. It even has a widescreen panel. Does it have near the features or attention to detail that the Selco does? No. Why? Because it markets to a lower budget demographic. Another example is the Sony WT-10/11. It's less than 10K and I think my Panasonic performs on par with either of those HT projectors. The original post really didn't draw a distinction between presentation or HT marketed projectors, but you hinted that anyone interested in HT should seek HT projectors to fill HT requirements. I disagree. I feel that at the

So yes, I do grant you that there is definite cause to purchase an HT projector with the right budget. If I had 10K to spend on a projector, I wouldn't buy a presentation projector.


Here is what I would like to see....Rather than being forced to purchase presentation projectors at the

There are probably a dozen reasons projectors will never be like that, but it's a shame. I bought my whole audio system from a dealer that sells audio equipment from my range (Denon) to the stuff you have to buy with the Platinum Visa and drive away in your Porsche. These guys are knowledgeable and I trust them, but they have one Sony projector and the rest starts at the Seleco & Sharp price point. I can't spend that much. I had to use the forum and figure out how to do it on my own with a presentation projector.

 

[Tryg]

Did anyone mention HDTV?


DO NOT buy any projector if it cant play back HDTV!!!!!

 

[Li On]

Hi Tryg,


The HDTV argument is quite meaningless IMO. Nowadays almost every projector including both presentation and HT can display HDTV in one way or another. Even the 480i only Plus Piano can show a HD picture if one try hard enough via a HTPC approach through it's DVI port.


Btw, if you're talking about displaying NATIVE HDTV which is 1080i (over 90% of HD material IMO) and the hard to find 720p, then ONLY CRT based projector can handle native 1080i and the few 720p digital projectors are quite meaningless because besides a few native 720p programs there don't exist a PERFECT 1080i to 720p converter.


The question is how good can a projector show a HDTV picture? Now it's YMMV.


See my comment about HDTV performance on a few projectors here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=121528


regards,


Li On

 

[Namlemez]

Even lots of touted RP HDTVs aren't seeing the whole picture as 7" guns can't define it.


If you're saying you shouldn't buy something that can't handle full HDTV resolution you haven't seen HDTV even downscaled to 480p while looking awesome AND need to get in touch with the economic situation of most people

 

[hgo]

About the 6000 hrs lamp, Is that the high pressure mercury lamp or is the ultra efficient sulfur lamp from fusion lighting of rockville maryland just wondering.

 

[kedelbach]

Pong - don't let the moniker "buisiness" or "presentation" projector scare you off.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...m?part_id=1200


My Sanyo XW15 "business" projector has big-boy features like:


- 1:1.2 zoom lens

- digital keystone (don't use it)

- 4:3 XGA panel with widescreen mode for anamorphic DVDs (for TV viewing, gaming, Kubrick films 4:3 is nice to have, the image is so large even with the black bars top and bottom 2.35:1 material is huge)

- adjustable gamma, RGB levels, etc

- HD compatibility

- fine contrast (listed at 300:1 but many testers havesaid this is underrated compared to others)

- superior scaling/de-interlacing

- 800 lumen UHP bulb

- component video inputs


What specs/features are most important to you? Zoom is nice if you think changing the screen size is desireable (for the lower quality cable tv programs I reduce the screen size) or you want some flexibilty in mounting the projector. Component in is good if you plan on forgoing a HTPC and using a DVD player.


At the budget level you will still find lots of neat features, and be able to project a truly awesome picture.


Whatever you do try to see several projectors in person and judge for yourself!

 

[Alan Gouger]

I to want to see the price of these HT projectors drop.


I also want to see higher resolution panels.


Its the chicken before the egg syndrome.

As soon as they start shipping a new Hi Rez panel the price will drop to nothing on the current 1280 units.


This is 2 years away. Until then the HT manufactures have no incentive o drop ricing.

If only one brand would do so and gained a large % of future sales it would leave the rest in the dust and they would have no choice.


For myself in the meantime I am addicted to some of these features and cant live without them.

 

[whithama]

Alan,


Funny you picked the Seleco HT300, being reading Home Theatre Magazine this month? ;-)


hgo,


The only detail about the lamp is "Lamp power consumption: 120W UHP". There was mention in this month's Home Theatre Magazine about the bulb, but I can't remember what it said.


ryan330i,


The price for the HT300 over the 711XU is more like 4x, in Canada at least. I priced out a 711XU at about $6000 street. I'm sure the HT300 will start at more than $17,000 here.


Li on,


Absolutely right about the HDTV thing. Get the highest res you can if you want the best quality HDTV, but it won't be as good as CRT.


kedelbach has the right idea. Don't be scared about business projectors. IMHO, find one with all the features you aboslutely must have, (best contrast for $$$, and Multiple aspect ratio IMO) and get the best price. Add on a good outboard Scaler/De-interlacer and you will have a "close to HT PJ" without putting out HT $$$.


One more question for Alan.


I believe the DCDi de-interlacing is very good from what I hear. But I believe that the chip that does the de-interlacing, isn't the same as the one that does the scaling. I can't remember where I heard that (I assume on this board though, it's my 1 stop shop for info), but I would be interested in hearing what you had to saw with regards to that. I'm looking at the LS110, but I'm worried about rainbows.


My 2 cents.