[spongebob]

OK. Gang


While auditioning the Sony 4es yesterday vs the 45, They couldn't get any sound from the 45, so I went back and forth between the 47 and the 4es. The 47 definitely had a clearer sound but the Sony held it's own.


BUT, I finally got the 45 working (signal select was on analog) and it blew me out when it came on. The low end punch couldn't be matched by the 47 or the Sony. All receivers were confirmed in the "Direct" mode, no tone or Mcacc on. All receivers volume were as close as I could get (-6 on the 45 and the 47)


I brough in my own music. quite a variety of western swing, modern country, Nora Jones, Acoustic Alchemy, etc.


Can anyone explain the obvious better punch factor on the 45 over the 47?



bob

 

[Chum]

A few questions that I think should be answered:


1) What speakers were attached? Don't think that's it's really _that_ important, but curious.

2) Were you running an A/B comparison? If so, what equipment was used for the switching?

3) I could be wrong, but I don't think the volume knob is accurate enough. Do you have an SPL meter?


Chad

 

[Dan]

Interesting results.


1. You found the 45 to be better than the 47, very strange.


2. You used both the 45 and 47 without MCACC which is their prime advantage over other receivers. My 45tx sounds terrible in direct mode compared to stereo using MCACC.

 

[spongebob]

I didn't want to turn on mcacc because it prolly wasn't set up with the room/speakers I was listening in. I still can't get over the "punch" factor; like the 45 had the "loudness" button pushed


bob

 

[sushi]

Yes, my first guess would be a subtle difference in the sound level. The higher the volume, the more bass you hear (Fletcher-Munson effect). Did you calibrate the sound levels with an SPL meter?

 

[spongebob]

No, but I might take my RS meter back with me. What settings? A or C weighting? slow or fast?


thx


bob

 

[spongebob]

Forgot to add that both the 45 and 47 were at -6db. You'd think the 47 would be louder at that level because of the larger power amps.


bob

 

[MikeRP]

Bob:


You have to remember that the 45's amp are no slouch. If they test out like the UK version. Its a great amp section. You'd really have to be pushing the speakers to tell a difference between the 45 and 47.


So, the speaker question is relevent because if they are efficient speakers - you may have to be at painful levels to hear the sound difference.


I think I use C weighting - fast. SLow can be used also for a more average output reading.


But, I still keep saying if you like what you hear in direct mode. Wait till what you hear with a MCACC calibration!


Mike

 

[spongebob]

Thx, Mike


I did like what I heard, a lot! At lower levels, as well, the 45 was the clear winner, if you define winning as "punch" I like punch. Others may have said the 47 is more "transparent" or "clearer". Bottom line was the 45 *seemed* to have more power at all levels and that was what still bothers me. I will go back with my meter. Is it true that you should hold the meter 90 degrees to the speakers?


bob

 

[spongebob]

Oh, the speakers were Vienna towers, Bach or Mozart, whatever the better ($1250 each) were.


bob

 

[petiteface]

spongebob:


I had the same experience with my 45TX when I compared it to both the Rotel 1055 and Outlaw combo 950+7100. The low end punch is very very seductive! I am a little surprised at the 45 vs. 47 comparison though.


What about the clarity of the 45 compared to the 47 and the 4es?

 

[SurferLeo]

This is very unsettling.


What measures did you take to make sure you were doing an apples-to-apples comparison? Or, in other words, how did you assure the sound processing levels were identical?


I could see the 47TX sounding worse if someone had messed with the unit's sound processing parameters prior to your test.

 

[petiteface]

spongebob:


According to the Outlaw manual, the Radioshack SPL meter should be held vertically with the microphone pointing upwards (at the ceiling) with C weighting and slow response. Set it to 70db and then calibrate the L+R channels on the receiver.

 

[petiteface]

One more possibility. Are you using optical input for one and analog input for the other? I have heard people mention that the one can achieve the same SPL at a smaller dB level with the optical input compared to the analog input.

 

[spongebob]

petite: the clarity of the 47 seemed more apparent, but could be because of the lower "punch" factor. The 4es actually was the less "clear" of the 3, but a very pleasant sounding box


leo: all 3 were cofirmed in the *Direct* mode, no EQ, no processing!


bob

 

[loopy]

you should reset each unit(the sony is reset by turning it on, then holding down the power on button for 5 secs until "Enter to clear all" appears on the screen, then you hit the enter button under the flip down panel, memory clearing appears, then memory cleared when finished), make sure optical feed is used for every unit, and that no subwoofer is hooked up. As in my previous posts, I auditioned both the 4ES and 45TX, and I liked both of them. I went with the Sony on price, 2 mult-channel inputs and warranty. I'd have been happy with both in terms of sound quality.

 

[petiteface]

Loopy:


Shouldnt the direct mode bypass it all? That has been my impression all along!

 

[loopy]

I'd just reset them all. It's a little fishy the 45 being more punchy than the 47

 

[spongebob]

petite: all optical connectors, same source player, Elite $500 DVD player.


The kicker *could* be the very elaborate switching controller at Magnolia hi-fi. This is a touch screen switcher that has access to any combination in the room, source decks, receivers, speakers, subs, etc. Very impressive but possibly prone to connection errors?


bob

 

[petiteface]

Can you ever be in bypass or direct mode when you have an optical connection going on? Since the optical signal is digital in nature, it has to go through some processing. The Outlaw 950 pre-amp would not allow me to set the BYPASS/DIRECT mode when I had my DVD player connected to the receiver by optical input!


I was under the impression that only the analog inputs can be in direct/bypass mode. I will check on my 45TX today.