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My Cable Co (Cox) Stand on Digital Conversion

3337 Views 37 Replies 11 Participants Last post by bicker1, Feb 22, 2008

Breyean

Discussion Starter · Jan 17, 2008

I just got off the phone with my local Cox tech support dept. I asked about their plans to implement the analog to digital changeover next year. My concern is for all my non digital hookups to tvs and dvd recorders that are now free since I have one digital cable box hooked up to one tv.

He said at the latest Cox w/b doing a complete changeover at the official date next year, but that it might even be 6 months early. He said all stations w/b digital, no analog even for local stations, and I would need a digital cable box for each hookup at $6 each per month.

I asked about what others here had posted about cable cos having until 2012 to completely drop analog and he told me I was wrong. He said I could thank the government for the higher fees I'd be paying - that Cox had no choice but to do it on or before next February.

When I stated that I thought that date was for OTA broadcasts and that cable cos had the option to continue some analog signals until 2012 he actually got angry and told basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

That might well be the case, but wow! What a windfall for the cable cos when they add the rentals of digital boxes for service that had hitherto been free (extra analog connections).

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

HomeVideoGuy

· #2 · Jan 17, 2008

Interesting... I already reported my experience to you with Cox here in New Orleans. They seem to have a completely different attitude here. I wonder if it is on a market by market basis? Is Pheonix a smaller/newer market than N.O.; making it easier for them to transition?

Even though I have digital cable hooked to only one TV; I use the analog splits to feed my DVD recorders. I got cable hooked up again more for better analog reception than channel content. Just about everything on cable can be viewed online, bought or rented. I get excellent OTA reception on my Panasonic EZ17 DVD recorder with built in digital tuner. They would be disconnecting my cable if they would have displayed that kind of attitude to me here.

Breyean

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 17, 2008

That's the way I have mine as well. I have one digital box with the cable split before the box and into my 3 Panasonic dvd recorders through the RF feed. I also have all 3 wired through my cable box into the line inputs since I record different types of programs on different units.

And that's just in my family room. I will need 2 more digital boxes in there, plus another 4 for my bedrooms.

Do you know whether the OTA converter boxes the government is doing the coupons for would work with the Pannys? I record a lot of stuff from "broadcast" channels so maybe I could save on a couple of the digital boxes?

jjeff

· #4 · Jan 17, 2008

Yes OTA converters should work fine with your Panny's. At least I'm betting on them. Note I like the sound of the Echostar tr-40. From my understanding it has a S-out to feed the Panny's, plus a event timer, so it can automatically change channels at specific times for unattended recordings of different channels. I'm not sure if all converters will have this last feature, but it sure will be important for me. I don't want no stinkin' 14 event 1 channel DVDR.

I would much prefer the scheduler over IR blaster, since none of my Panny DVDR's have the blaster, but I guess if your's did, you would have more choices for converter boxes, since I believe all will have a remote control.(responding to HVG's next post)

HomeVideoGuy

· #5 · Jan 17, 2008

I am sure the gov. boxes would work fine; assuming you get good OTA digital reception of all channels. N.O. is relatively flat and all channels are in the same direction within 10 miles from my house but I still need to fine tune my indoor antenna for best reception of a given channel. Assuming you are already familiar with digital OTA reception in your area, just hook up the line outputs to the line in on your Panny's.

Controlling them may be the issue. You may have to change the channel on the converter manually unless it either has a scheduler or IR blaster to control the Panny's or the Panny's have a controller that can change channels on the converter. Otherwise, it should be do-able.

Breyean

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 17, 2008

Thanks, guys. I'll be looking into those. Yes my Pannys have the IR blaster but I've NEVER gotten them to work reliably so I'd prefer a converter that could change its own channels.

To add to the confusion (am I the ONLY one who's confused?) I emailed a Cox guy who answers questions on the dslreports forum. I posted the same item that started this thread and here's his reply...

Quote:
Thanks for checking in with me and I'm sorry that you were misinformed. We'll be offering analog for basic and expanded basic no different than we do today for many years to come. No box necessary to hit those tv sets in the extra bedroom, etc.... Hope that helps. CoxEngr

bicker1

· #7 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean /forum/post/12844218

He said all stations w/b digital, no analog even for local stations, and I would need a digital cable box for each hookup at $6 each per month. I asked about what others here had posted about cable cos having until 2012 to completely drop analog and he told me I was wrong.

I think you're both confused: Cable cannot drop analog until February 2009. They have to continue analog service either as it is now, or via the digital cable box with analog outputs, which he mentioned to you, until December 2012, when they can terminate both/either of those options. $6 is a little steep IMHO, but the regulation doesn't preclude a fee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean /forum/post/12844218

He said I could thank the government for the higher fees I'd be paying - that Cox had no choice but to do it on or before next February.

Kinda-sorta. Cox had no choice but to start supporting digital broadcast channels by then. Also, there are some higher fees which you'll be paying that you have the government to thank for, but this isn't one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean /forum/post/12844218

What a windfall for the cable cos when they add the rentals of digital boxes for service that had hitherto been free (extra analog connections).

This regulation was generally hailed as a rare "win" for big cable.

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HomeVideoGuy

· #8 · Jan 17, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/12845678

I think you're both confused: Cable cannot drop analog until February 2009. They have to continue analog service either as it is now, or via the digital cable box with analog outputs, which he mentioned to you, until December 2012, when they can terminate both/either of those options. $6 is a little steep IMHO, but the regulation doesn't preclude a fee.

I don't know if they are the ones confused. Cable is not bound by the broadcast switchover in Feb. 09 but AFAIK if they offer analog service then, they must continue to offer, at a minimum, the locals for an additional 3 years; which I interpret to be Feb 2012. At any rate, a digital STB with analog outs /= analog service.

bicker1

· #9 · Jan 17, 2008

You need to read the regulation, HomeVideoGuy. A digital STB with analog outputs IS analog service according to the regulation.

That is precisely why that regulation was considered a rare FCC "win" by big cable.

Cable is affected by the February 2009 switchover in that once a channel switches from dual format (analog + digital) to single format (digital-only) then the must-carry regulations force carriage of the digital channel. Prior do that, it requires carriage of the analog channel.

Also, there is no option whether or not to offer analog service. That is a requirement through December 2012. The only choice cable has is whether to so via analog signals down the coax versus digital STB with analog outputs.

impala454

· #10 · Jan 17, 2008

It is OTA only in the 2009 switchover. The reasoning behind the switchover makes this obvious. The whole point of the switchover is to free up the large band of radio frequencies currently used up by old analog OTA TV.

Straight from the FCC's government website regarding this matter:
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html

Quote:
Do cable TV networks, like CNN, MSNBC, Lifetime, etc., have to switch to digital broadcasting as well?

No. The current requirement to switch from analog to digital only applies to full-power broadcast TV stations, which use the public airwaves to provide free over-the-air programming. However, as cable providers convert to digital transmissions over their systems, you may need to subscribe to their digital tier to continue to receive this non-broadcast programming

It has become a huge pet peeve of mine to see this information misconstrued. Especially by overzealous TV salesmen.

HomeVideoGuy

· #11 · Jan 17, 2008

Actually, here it their ruling, copied from their website:

FCC Adopts Rules to Ensure all Cable Customers

Receive Local TV Stations After the Digital Television Transition

Washington, D.C. – The Federal Communications Commission (“FCC”) today adopted rules to ensure all cable subscribers, including those with analog TV sets, can view broadcast television after the transition to digital television occurs on February 17, 2009. Approximately 35 percent of all television homes, or approximately 40 million households, are analog-only cable subscribers. The Commission is committed to ensuring that the 98 million TV viewers watching roughly 120 million sets retain the same access to their local stations after the transition as they do today.

By statute, cable operators must make local broadcasters’ primary video and program-related material viewable by all of their subscribers. The FCC’s ruling today allows cable operators to comply with the viewability requirement by choosing to either: (1) carry the digital signal in analog format, or (2) carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content. The viewability requirements extend to February 2012 with the Commission committing to review them during the last year of this period in light of the state of technology and the marketplace.

In addition, a cable system with activated channel capacity of 552 megahertz or less may request a waiver of the viewability requirements. The Commission is also seeking comment in a Further Notice on ways to minimize any economic impact on small cable operators while still complying with the statutory requirements for carriage of local TV stations.

While the item provides cable operators with flexibility, the FCC reaffirmed the requirement that cable systems must carry high definition (“HD”) broadcast signals in HD format and reaffirmed its current material degradation standard. Cable operators must carry broadcast signals so that the picture quality is at least as good as the quality of any other programming carried on the system.

Action by the Commission September 11, 2007 by Memorandum, Opinion and Order

(FCC 07-170). Chairman Martin, Commissioners Copps, Tate and McDowell with Commissioner Adelstein approving in part and dissenting in part. Separate statements issued by Chairman Martin Commissioners Copps, Adelsetin, Tate and McDowell

Media Bureau Staff Contact: Eloise Gore, [email protected] or Lyle Elder, [email protected] , 202-418-7200.

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Breyean

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 17, 2008

Sounds like option #2 could be interpreted to mean as long as they make the digital boxes available for rent they are in compliance.

bicker1

· #13 · Jan 18, 2008

Precisely. Again, that is why the regulation was considered a rare "win" by big cable.

Kelson

· #14 · Jan 18, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/12844834

Yes OTA converters should work fine with your Panny's. At least I'm betting on them. Note I like the sound of the Echostar tr-40. From my understanding it has a S-out to feed the Panny's, plus a event timer, so it can automatically change channels at specific times for unattended recordings of different channels. I'm not sure if all converters will have this last feature, but it sure will be important for me. I don't want no stinkin' 14 event 1 channel DVDR.

I would much prefer the scheduler over IR blaster, since none of my Panny DVDR's have the blaster, but I guess if your's did, you would have more choices for converter boxes, since I believe all will have a remote control.(responding to HVG's next post)

Actually the Echostar TR-50 is the one to watch out for. An older analog Panasonic DVDR slaved to a converter box is a kludge without the EPG and the ease of one-touch record scheduling -- and it still only records SD. When the TR-50 comes out it will be time to upgrade my EH-85. The TR-50 gives one digital tuner(s), integrated EPG, recording in HD and the ability to record out to the E-85 those items I really wish to archive.

That's a feature list that's just impossible to ignore, especially given that the 2008 CES did not give the slightest hint that a HDD/DVDR, that had TVGOS and would record HD to the HDD, would be forthcoming.

jjeff

· #15 · Jan 18, 2008

Kelson, Yes the TR-40 and TR-50 are on my list of things to get. I'm curious about the price of the TR-50, the TR-40 should be nice for free. At least the first 2. And I'll finally be able to experience the TVGOS that everyone talks about(mostly positive).

Breyean

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jan 18, 2008

Well, I got another response from a VP at Cox that I figured I'd pass along. The interesting part is when he says there's confusion within Cox. No kidding!

Quote:
-Since I sent my first note, I did learn that there is one small area in Phoenix that only gets 20 analog channels total. But even there, those 20 channels will still remain after the transition. I assure you (and I'm the VP of Technology for Cox), that analog will be staying in PHX. I even brought this topic up at a few meetings this week.

-I also learned that there's much confusion on this topic in the marketplace (and probably as you've experienced within our own company). I found out from Marketing folks that there's a big initiative underway to do a education campaign on this topic, so that will certainly help (and looks like it couldn't come a minute too soon).

-I hope this helps. If there's any other questions I can answer, please let me know.

impala454

· #17 · Jan 18, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeVideoGuy /forum/post/12849631

Actually, here it their ruling, copied from their website:

FCC Adopts Rules to Ensure all Cable Customers

Receive Local TV Stations After the Digital Television Transition

Washington, D.C. – The Federal Communications Commission (“FCC”) today adopted rules to ensure all cable subscribers, including those with analog TV sets, can view broadcast television after the transition to digital television occurs on February 17, 2009. Approximately 35 percent of all television homes, or approximately 40 million households, are analog-only cable subscribers. The Commission is committed to ensuring that the 98 million TV viewers watching roughly 120 million sets retain the same access to their local stations after the transition as they do today.

By statute, cable operators must make local broadcasters’ primary video and program-related material viewable by all of their subscribers. The FCC’s ruling today allows cable operators to comply with the viewability requirement by choosing to either: (1) carry the digital signal in analog format, or (2) carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content. The viewability requirements extend to February 2012 with the Commission committing to review them during the last year of this period in light of the state of technology and the marketplace.

In addition, a cable system with activated channel capacity of 552 megahertz or less may request a waiver of the viewability requirements. The Commission is also seeking comment in a Further Notice on ways to minimize any economic impact on small cable operators while still complying with the statutory requirements for carriage of local TV stations.

While the item provides cable operators with flexibility, the FCC reaffirmed the requirement that cable systems must carry high definition (“HD”) broadcast signals in HD format and reaffirmed its current material degradation standard. Cable operators must carry broadcast signals so that the picture quality is at least as good as the quality of any other programming carried on the system.

Action by the Commission September 11, 2007 by Memorandum, Opinion and Order

(FCC 07-170). Chairman Martin, Commissioners Copps, Tate and McDowell with Commissioner Adelstein approving in part and dissenting in part. Separate statements issued by Chairman Martin Commissioners Copps, Adelsetin, Tate and McDowell

Media Bureau Staff Contact: Eloise Gore, [email protected] or Lyle Elder, [email protected] , 202-418-7200.

All this is saying is that cable companies will be required to carry the new local digital stations.

Again all this affects is OTA. I guess we can all say this until we're blue in the face but people will believe what they want I suppose.

Kelson

· #18 · Jan 19, 2008

Quote:
By statute, cable operators must make local broadcasters' primary video and program-related material viewable by all of their subscribers. The FCC's ruling today allows cable operators to comply with the viewability requirement by choosing to either: (1) carry the digital signal in analog format, or (2) carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content. The viewability requirements extend to February 2012 with the Commission committing to review them during the last year of this period in light of the state of technology and the marketplace.

It soesn't seem to get much clearer than that. They are required to carry the local channels and make provisions so that people with analog TV's can view them. It does not mandate that they have to broadcast in analog so you can still use your TV tuner.

bicker1

· #19 · Jan 19, 2008

And the regulation is notable mostly for what it doesn't say, i.e., it doesn't say that the provisions cable companies make to ensure all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content have to be "free" or even "affordable", and it doesn't even say that the cable company have to ensure that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content on "all" their current analog devices. Provision of a single digital cable box with analog outputs, perhaps for a moderate fee, would satisfy the regulation. Folks should be prepared, and shouldn't be surprised about this, should it come to pass to them just that way.

HomeVideoGuy

· #20 · Jan 21, 2008

Yes. The only thing that has become clear is how confusing this is.

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