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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why does my old $150 toshiba dvd player look better than my brand new and expensive Denon 2910?. What is wrong with this player?


Any suggestions please.
 

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You're not giving us a lot of material to work here with, chief.


What gear do you have? Connections? Display? What's the matter with your picture? etc. ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have a mitsubishi xl5u lcd 1700 lumen xga projector connected with component analogue. I have not changed any settings on the denon 2910.

The picture with the denon 2910 looks graining and there is something not right with the colors. This is relative to my cheap toshiba player I bought 7 years ago for $250. The toshiba is not progressive.


The toshiba just looks right. The colors are balanced and there is no grain given the dvd is a good transfer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Other people on the projector page had complained that they were having similiar problems with their image and were not sure if it was the denon 2910 that may be a factor. I've had the denon for a few months now but it never occured to me to try my older dvd player until I read this post. So I went and tried my toshiba player for the first time on my Mitsubishi projector and bobs your uncle the grain disappeared. The picture in general is also quite a bit better. There seems to be something not right about the color on the denon. I'm quite confused about this.
 

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Have you done anyting to calibrate your picture? Are you sending a porgressive image with the denon?
 

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try this:


1. set format to HDMI 1080i or 720p, YCbCr

2. Make sure you turn off "enhanced blacks"

3. under picture memory M1-M5, goto set and put IRE to 0

4. choose any of the m1-m5 settings, and change the following:

4a. turn Chroma to +3

4b. Turn DNR to +5

4c. Turn brightness to +1


give it a spin and see how you do....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo
try this:


1. set format to HDMI 1080i or 720p, YCbCr

2. Make sure you turn off "enhanced blacks"

3. under picture memory M1-M5, goto set and put IRE to 0

4. choose any of the m1-m5 settings, and change the following:

4a. turn Chroma to +3

4b. Turn DNR to +5

4c. Turn brightness to +1


give it a spin and see how you do....
NRE should be set to 7.5 to pass BTB.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luptong
Why does my old $150 toshiba dvd player look better than my brand new and expensive Denon 2910?. What is wrong with this player?


Any suggestions please.
In addition to the tweaks mentioned, I observed the 2910 to have one the worst 480p component signals I have ever seen. While the 480i component was among the best, very clean with perfect Y/C.


How old is the 2910? I assume it's new, but if it's an older used unit, it may not have had some of the important software updates installed. The 2910 when originally released, had a nasty habit of switching into Enhanced Blacks mode, all by it's self. When you went to the SETUP menu, the menu said NORMAL, but if you manually swiched the menu to Enhanced and back to Normal, you could see the gamma change on the display.


The 2910 has Macro Blocking problems with some displays.


The 2910 is worth trying to dial in, as it's reproduces an excellent image at 480i component, and 480p/720p/1080i DVI/HDMI. I could never get 480p component to look good.


Try to confirm your current firmware, and then check the Denon website to see what's available.


You can see the Denon software by product at this link. http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp


Good luck.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce
NRE should be set to 7.5 to pass BTB.


Nope! I have mine at 0 and it passes fine.... ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo
Nope! I have mine at 0 and it passes fine.... ;)
Hmm. I had the 3910 and it appeared that 7.5 was the preferred setting...
 

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For 9 months, I tried all kind of calibration(DVE, AVIA, HIVI cast, 65K expert in my house), none of those correct the grain on 2910 thru DVI or component out. It maybe a design flaw or Denon's own picture characteristic, so call it 'film-like'. I even did their firmware upgrade as suggested by some 2910 users here, but to no vail.


Finally, I gave up n switch to a Marantz 7600. Viola !!!. The rest is history.


I wish I had listend to some expert advice before I bought the 2910, then I saved myself 9 months from hell. For all the people who read this , please don't follow my trail n kindly make the right choice from the getgo.



:) :) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the advice so far. I use component only. My projector does not have dvi or hdmi digital inputs, it only has analogue inputs. The settings that some of you have suggested cannot be done with analogue. I had thought that maybe the 2910 had poor analogue outputs and it was purely a digital machine but your posts suggest that the problem arises with the digital outputs aswell.


I live in Australia so the dvd's are pal 576. I have the 2910 set to 576 progressive. My projector does not have progressive scan. I will have to try different settings like 576i when I get time and get back to you on the results but it doesn't seem hopeful going on some of these posts.


I've bought expensive equipement before and have been dissapointed at the not so significant improvement but at least it was an improvement not a step backwards like I'm seeing with 2910. I was stupid to assume the picture was better than my old machine and not do a side by side comparison the day I bought it otherwise I would have taken it back that day. Why would denon sell soemthing that just doesn't work?. In my mind denon has always had a good reputation, not any more.


ac338 how much is the marantz 7600?. Thanks.
 

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I don't know if it is Ok to talk about price in the forum. I got my 7600 for less than US$600.


I just finished re-watching an old dvd 'The real McCoy', which was unbearablely grainy n full of picture noise via 2910. But now with 7600, the noise level is all the way down, n some of the closeup on human face are pretty detail too.


Also, I did re-watch the first 'Queen' concert dvd. I did not know the picture was so clear on the 'We are the Champion' track, which is the only cut they turned on the white stage-light, rather than those brownish spotlight from above the stage.


No need to look for miracle or try anymore firmware upgrade on 2910. Try a 7600 n tell me your findings.


I have been burnt twice following the recommandation of DVD benchmark, once on Panny RP82 n now Denon 2910. Maybe the reviewer at AV Alcoholics said it right. Some equipment may pass all the test on the bench table, which doesn't translate to what the human eye want to watch.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce
Hmm. I had the 3910 and it appeared that 7.5 was the preferred setting...


No...I don't know where you heard this.


I spent a lot of PMs with Kris Deering regarding this issue, and it was clear that unless you are using a PC, the correct setting you want is IRE 0, normal blacks. You can then tweak your Display setting's contrast/brightness, or you can play with it on the 3910 as well (which is what I did).


it passes BTB fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I just tried the denon 2910 in 576i interlaced and the grain, video noise whatever you want to call it disappeared. The picture quality is now on a par with my cheap toshiba. I have 150inch diagonal screen and at this size I honestly cannot see any difference between these players, in fact I still feel the toshiba is better at times. No other setting changes have made any difference to the picture as far as I can tell. Not being able to use progressive scan is not good.


The denon 2910 really is a crap machine. Quite easily the biggest waste of money I've spent in a while worse than that crap screen paint from DIYTHEATRE.com. I'm not having a good year.
 

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Great to hear, I have one of these units on it's way in the mail... :D :rolleyes:
 

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Hi Nicholas,


If you have a chance to switch to a Pioneer or Marantz, please do so. Denon 2910 is not a junk, but at that price level, you expect a better quality picture than it can offer you. And please, don't read into that DVD Benchmark n make a blind purchase. More n more people will feel whatever fit for their bench testing, is not in line with the general public's eyes.
 

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I live in Australia so the dvd's are pal 576. I have the 2910 set to 576 progressive. My projector does not have progressive scan. I will have to try different settings like 576i when I get time and get back to you on the results but it doesn't seem hopeful going on some of these posts.


This makes absolutely no sense. how can you have it set to progressive when you pj isnt?? and you are complaining about pic that is not even set up right. You are blameing a player when you dont even know how to set it up. its fine to bash a player but if not set up right by the owner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm not sure what you mean kevinca1. What exactly haven't I set up properly? When I put my cheap toshiba player on the picutre looks as good if not better than the denon 2910 and it shouldn't. I have tried different settings recommended and it has made no significant difference. The only thing that has helped with the 2910 is switching progressive scan to interlaced. This made a quite a difference in reducing video noise and grain. I own the machine, it cost me $1200au and I'm not going bash it for no reason.


As for my projector not being progressive scan. It will play a progressive scan signal but it does not have progressive scan circuitry. There is no switch on the projector to change from progressive too interlaced. However if I change the dvd player from progressive too interlaced the projector will display 576p and 576i. As far as I can tell you don't need a projector with progressive scan if the dvd player has it. Only one machine requires the circuitry to utilise it.


I have continued to play around with the 2910 and as far as pq I'm very unhappy with it. The audio is the only thing I can recommend.
 
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