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"Hollywood" Hollings...I like it
 

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They don't want government mandated monitoring, because they want to be able to control it through their own DRM software! :) You get tied to Windows and set-top boxes must have a Microsoft license. There's some of these out there already...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by iago
I never thought I'd ever say this, but I love Microsoft

http://www.theregus.com/content/4/25152.html


This has done more for my attitude towards that company than all of their public relations campaigns put together.
This is one of the most pathetic thread titles I have ever seen.


Basically you are saying "Go ahead, be as anti-competitive as you want. Go ahead and break all the laws that you want. Just as long as you serve me, you can do whatever you want".


And people wonder why we even have companies like M$ in a supposed "free" market.


I am thouroughly disgusted when I see things like this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Namlemez
They don't want government mandated monitoring, because they want to be able to control it through their own DRM software! :) You get tied to Windows and set-top boxes must have a Microsoft license. There's some of these out there already...


Ofcourse... But whatever their reasons are, I want the same thing.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by hdtv_moron



1 . This is one of the most pathetic thread titles I have ever seen.


2. Basically you are saying "Go ahead, be as anti-competitive as you want. Go ahead and break all the laws that you want. Just as long as you serve me, you can do whatever you want".


3. And people wonder why we even have companies like M$ in a supposed "free" market.


4. I am thouroughly disgusted when I see things like this.


1. Pathetic is derived from pathos, meaning emotive/emotional. Should I have written *sarcasm* in the title?


2. Basically, you are rewriting what I wrote in a matter that resembles psychological projection.


3. Monopoly is unavoidable in totally free markets.


4. Ok.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by iago




Ofcourse... But whatever their reasons are, I want the same thing.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend


No, because they are going to implement the same thing. Already look at the how Windows XP by default builds copy protection into anything you rip and uses their own format instead of the industry standard mp3.


I had a friend (not very computer savvy) that would rip a bunch of songs from his CD collection to his subnotebook for trips. When he upgraded the computer and copied his files over, Microsoft's DRM fired up and wouldn't let him play any of them. Quite a few hours of work down the drain...


The regulator will be Microsoft instead of the government. I think that could even be worse.
 

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Quote:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
Nail, say hello to Hammer. Ping..


You hit the nail on the head here.


As for alternative choice of OS... We have already seen how Linux is treated by the DVD Forum. It hasn't stopped people from using DVDs under Linux, but it has stopped commercial development of products that would be necessary to make Linux a viable alternative.


There are some problems that Open Source cannot solve. Development license fees for technology is one. Per copy license fees is another. The system is stacked against Open Source so it's amazing that Open Source systems have been as successful as they are.
 

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You can fault MS for a lot of things but trying to equate what they are doing with WMA to what RIAA and MPAA want to do is WAAAAYYYY off base.


First of all, Namlemez, the only reason your friend's files triggered DRM is because he ripped it that way. By default, when you rip CD's with Windows Media Player, DRM is incorporated into the file so that the file can only be played again on the same PC. This is NOT because MS wanted it that way. This is because RIAA was pressuring them to do so. You can go into the control panel and easily disable this feature. If MS was in bed with RIAA, that option would not even be available.


MS's DRM system is by FAR the most development and user friendly of ALL DRM solutions out there (not to mention they are free). I know, I used to work for a digtial music distribution company. At the time when RIAA was doing their best to force all DRM companies to provide only the most onerous solutions available, Microsoft was the only who had the guts (and financial backings) to say "Screw You" to RIAA. Because of that, RIAA and the record companies would not give distribution license for any WMA DRM wrapped product.


Of course other DRM solutions have been DOA (gee, consumer balking at consumer-unfriendly products? go figure!) and the record companies are finally starting to allow WMA downloads since WMA is really the only publicly available (and accepted) DRM solution (InterTrust and others still have a LONG way to go - when's the last time you heard about AAC?).


And as a person who has been intimately been involved in dealing with DRM solutions, I applaud LOUDLY what MS has done so far. They are the only ones who have had ANY influence in trying to represent the consumer-friendly distribution solutions against RIAA.


If MS had it their way, DRM solutions would not even be required to listen to music (or video). But they have no choice. Either they support DRM, or they cannot be any part of digital media distribution. At least they are trying to make it least annoying as possible.


You can fault MS for a lot of things but you guys are WRONG on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
JoeFloyd,


So far there has been no real incentive for switching to an alternative OS (there are other alternatives than Linux). Windows is easy to install, configure and use... plus if you buy a PC wholesale, it's included.

Now, if it was impossible to use Windows for digital media, alternative OS's would strike gold... and mature extremely fast... and hardware vendors would have no choice but to develop drivers.



That is, if no windows hack should come out first (some guy even hacked XBox now)
 

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Gameboy,


How is that "waaaayyyyyyyyyyyy" off-base? Simply from my example, it showed how similar they were. Your saying it only happened because my friend's lack of knowledge is the exact point! By default, they have it set on and therein lies the problem. The typical person does not know what DRM is and doesn't know how to turn it off.


It might be "the best" in your opinion, but the best of the worst is still bad.


AAC hasn't caught on that well, but Apple has started shipping Quicktime 6 with that as the default audio scheme (MPEG-4 for video.) I'm not sure if they brought along copy protection part of it though...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by iago
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
Not even close, not in this case and hardly ever in the real world. The most powerful repudiation of that attitude in recent history was the American role in Afghanistan in the 80's leading to the Taliban taking power in Afghanistan and the eventual destruction of the WTC.


The enemy of my enemy may be just as much an enemy too.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dean Roddey
About all you can say is that the enemy of my enemy, is the enemy of my enemy I guess.


Is that like saying "I know who the enemy is ... and he is us"


LOL :)!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel



Not even close, not in this case and hardly ever in the real world. The most powerful repudiation of that attitude in recent history was the American role in Afghanistan in the 80's leading to the Taliban taking power in Afghanistan and the eventual destruction of the WTC.


The enemy of my enemy may be just as much an enemy too.
This is a truly bisarre similance.

Microsoft is not a religious extremist cult from the deserts of Saudi Arabia.

Their R&D is not a group of a billion or more people that have been economically and politically and militarily marginalized and excreted on for the last 100 years... giving some of these people more than a good incentive to follow leaders like UBL.

US, British and French foreign policies for the last 100 years (along with the mess in Israel) are the reasons behind sept 11. The rest of us in the western world have done nothing about it, so we're equally responsible. We created this monster, but not during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That was only when it was empowered.



As I see it, there we face two options:

1. Legislation, that will be hindrance galore for the proliferation of HQ digital media... the kind of media all of us here want to enjoy in our home theatres. Hollywood will have the tools to crush every resistance.... Hollyborg.

It would probably put a damper on the computer industry too... which rightly frightens Intel and M$


2. Non legislative measures will pretty much enable us to do what we want with our copies. It would probably necessitate Hollyborg to change the way they do business from the bottom up. If windows become too prohibitive, other solutions will surface. To me, that is a good thing. Whatever happens, Hollyborg will not drag my behind to court for having the gall to watch the films I've bought, the way I want to watch them.


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 

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Namlemez, you still don't get it.


The DRM is set "on" by default, not because Microsoft wants it that way, but because RIAA wants it that way. Realplayer (it's not just Microsoft) and WMP both have DRM "on" by default because they still want to eventually get record companies to allow on-line distribution with their format. This is not by their choice - so STOP complaining to MS (why aren't you moaning about RealPlayer?).


AAC is nowhere to be seen, even though the compression quality is FAR superior to MP3. WHY? Because by its licensing, you cannot create an AAC file without DRM attached to it. I don't care if it is Apple, MusicMatch, whatever - if they offer AAC, it has DRM. If you don't like it, you can stick to MP3 (which is what everyone is doing) or use WMA with DRM turned off (at least you have a choice).


The fact is that you MS basher are no different than any other fanatics. You don't care about what the truth is - you "know" what you "know" and that is good enough for you. And even when the truth says its different, you bash them anyway (before you even have any IDEA what is going on). If you are going to critcize, criticize on facts - not based on your belief.
 

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Gameboy,


Who forced it to be put on is of little importance. The problem is that it is enabled. There are alternative products out there that do not come with DRM enabled. As for you saying I'm a hopeless fanatic who just bashes Microsoft, you obviously seem misinformed. I give valid reasons for disliking them, but my day job still revolves much around using their products. I don't think I need to drop into insults (like *cough* someone else here). I work a lot with Macs and Linux too so I like to think I have a well-rounded opinion.


The issue at hand is trusting Microsoft over the government. Frankly, I haven't seen a good reason yet why they can be trusted as a good person to handle this. I have no faith in their security, as I'm constantly patching IIS servers. Gates pushed for an initiative for increased reliability, yet the flood of patches continue. You're saying you want these people to manage your money when it comes to entertainment?


I'd like to see a more open-format not dominated by a corporation (WMA with MS, AAC with AT&T? I forget who has that..) These solutions usually seem to be the best for the consumers, but I don't see much of a chance of the public developing a rights management product since they have no need for it.
 

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This is a truly bisarre similance.


I picked it because it was the most dramatic example, there are plenty of other less dramatic examples. Specifically, other people in this thread have already shown why MS's business interests that lead it to opposse this legislation also lead it to opposse our own interests.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Hey, MS may be your friend, but it sure isn't our friend. Me, I believe this saying is far more appropriate:

JHe who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it.


History has shown that both the RIAA/MPAA and MS work soley for what they perceive to be their self-interests and the interest of the customer is not part of the equation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel

History has shown that both the RIAA/MPAA and MS work soley for what they perceive to be their self-interests and the interest of the customer is not part of the equation. [/b]


I'm not so stupid as to think that Microsoft is taking this position out of being altruistic. :rolleyes:

They have everything to gain from stopping Hollyborg's plans. So does Intel and AMD and Seagate and Maxtor and Hitachi/IBM. And so are we.


But as long as there is no legislation there will always be an option . Options will be available if there is no legislation.

If Windows does not meet our demands for useability, there will be another OS to take its place. This is not an option if there is legislation.
Legislation and litigation will stop every concievable option. If it happens in the States, it will spill down through Europe. You won't be able to use SUSE Linux, for instance, either. If proprietary formats are completely secured without legislation, open source formats will take over.


Did I mention that any none-legislative solution is better because it leaves us with options from new or old entrepeneurs? ;)

Options are good. Legislation is bad.
 
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