[captainkidd]

I have been hard at work converting my 70' long RV garage into a 40' garage and a 30' Man Cave/Home Theater and I thought I would share some pictures of the progress so far.


Here is the monster garage in all its messy glory with the metal studs in place. The theater will be on the other side...

Drywall up;

Some new seating, projector and some DIY acoustic panels;

Riser built and carpeted with some funky theater looking heavy wool carpet, AV equipment relocated to the front of the theater;

Some random shots from around the room, trying to figure out where I am going to put the giant THT subwoofer that is about to be built;

And a couple of not so good screen shots taken from handheld camera;

The equipment consists of an Epson 8100 projector, 12" screen, Denon AVR 590 receiver, Klipsch WF 35 speaker set minus the sub, a little Energy 8" sub (soon to be replaced by something with a bit more umph), Blu Ray, Wii and DirecTV HD receiver.


I am getting ready to paint, dark gray on the walls and black ceiling. Once that is done and the THT subwoofer is installed I should be pretty much finished!

 

[Remax]

Monster garage doesnt even begin to describe it. How tall are the ceilings? It looks like a really nice space, and will look much better once it gets some color on the walls.

 

[adammb]

My head is going to explode thinking about all the stuff I would do with that space.

 

[captainkidd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Remax /forum/post/18191366


Monster garage doesnt even begin to describe it. How tall are the ceilings? It looks like a really nice space, and will look much better once it gets some color on the walls.

The total dimensions of the garage prior to the wall were 70'L X 20'W X 16'H


I am looking forward to getting it painted, properly lighted and decorated.


Then of course I am planning to remove the huge roll up garage door as it opens out to little steep boat ramp leading in to a Gulf access canal. I intend to replace it with some nice sliders and build a big deck out back over the top of the crappy little boat ramp.


Oh, and I forgot to mention the loft...That one might be a ways off right now but someday...

 

[mike2060]

It looks like it would be very hard to get anything resembling good sound out of that space from the high reverberation times.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Man, what I would have given to have a garage that big to work with when I started my project.

 

[Remax]

If the garage is that big I can only imagine the rest of the house. Any pics of that?

 

[captainkidd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 /forum/post/18192041


It looks like it would be very hard to get anything resembling good sound out of that space from the high reverberation times.

Would you care to elaborate? I could use any advice anybody might have considering I know pretty much nothing about acoustics, room modes, reverberation times, ect.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Don't pay attention to that comment about the high reverb times. Assuming you have some acoustic treatments on the walls, the sound will expand out over a larger distance and therefore hit a much larger surface area of walls that should absorb a greater amount of volume and result in much lower SPL on your reflected sounds. A much greater concern would be having the bass be as effective in such a large volume compared to smaller rooms.


I have heard many people comment on how bad things would sound that they never experienced beyond looking at a single photo of the room, which generally isn't going to have any validity unless there is an egregious design issue that allows distracting or horrific noise to enter the area (window overlooking a 40 cage puppy mill, indoor waterfall, marriage to Fran Drescher, etc).

 

[captainkidd]

I wish I knew more about reverberation times and such, I am really clueless. It is my understanding that it is much easier to start with a room with long reverb times and attempt to deaden it to your liking than starting with a dead room and trying to go the other way? If that is the case I have a good room because it is pretty lively!


Your point about effective Bass is valid and I am in the process of building a THT subwoofer that should do a pretty good job in there. If it is still not enough I will add a second one.


I have added the acoustic treatments you see on the walls and may add more if deemed necessary down the road but honestly the sound seems pretty good so far. I would really like to have the system professionally calibrated once the sub is finished to ensure that I am getting the most from my system.

 

[Spaceman]

I got excited when I read "converting my 70' garage", hoping it was going to be followed by "into a 70' theater". Still, I'd take a 30' theater any day. Looks like a fun space.

 

[BlazeMaster]

coud you use drop top ceiling tiles, looks like you have a bit of too much head room.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Notice the qualifier: assuming you have some acoustic treatment on the walls...


The photos are works in progress and as such they often are not indicitive of what the final result will be.


The room nodes will likely overlap in many frequencies, but he has tons of height and can build risers for rear seating sections that incorporate bass traps to tame the problem frequencies. I suppose I could do the calculations to see which frequencies if given the altitude and temperature he expects the theater to be set at, and then determine the correct size and locations of the bass traps, but that would involve doing a lot more work than I prefer to do for a free analysis over an internet forum.


If he keeps hard surfaces on all the walls and leaves out carpet, the size of the room is still irrelevant as the issue would be the reflectiveness of the room's surface areas more so than how far apart they are.


edit: hmm, looks like the post I replied to disappeared. I suppose I should use "quote" instead of "reply" in the future...

 

[mike2060]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter /forum/post/18192479


Don't pay attention to that comment about the high reverb times. Assuming you have some acoustic treatments on the walls, the sound will expand out over a larger distance and therefore hit a much larger surface area of walls that should absorb a greater amount of volume and result in much lower SPL on your reflected sounds. A much greater concern would be having the bass be as effective in such a large volume compared to smaller rooms.


I have heard many people comment on how bad things would sound that they never experienced beyond looking at a single photo of the room, which generally isn't going to have any validity unless there is an egregious design issue that allows distracting or horrific noise to enter the area (window overlooking a 40 cage puppy mill, indoor waterfall, marriage to Fran Drescher, etc).

Yeah, a few acoustic panels is going to help in a 12000 cubic foot room. The room is basically bare. Larger rooms have a higher allowance for RT times but they are still important. His panels in a 1000 cuft room would be perfect but not in one that's 10000.


OP,


According to this site:

http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm


You need about 1350 sabins of absorption to get a desirable reverberation time. You multiply the area of absorption by the % of the sound it absorbs to get the number of sabins. So your panels look to be about 50 sqft in total and they should absorb about 100% of sound at mid frequencies. That would give you 50 sabins of aborption. Only 1300 to go

. If you added 600 sqft of carpet and it absorbed maybe 50% (if you get the right kind) that would be 300 sabins.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]



Quote:
Originally Posted by captainkidd /forum/post/18192541


I wish I knew more about reverberation times and such, I am really clueless. It is my understanding that it is much easier to start with a room with long reverb times and attempt to deaden it to your liking than starting with a dead room and trying to go the other way? If that is the case I have a good room because it is pretty lively!

Reverb time is the delay it takes for the sound to bounce of secondary, tertiary and later surfaces to come back to your ear. Think the time it takes for an echo - it really is a measure of the size of the room. Longer reverb times make the room sound big but too long and it is confusing, like the echo in a stadium. Lengthening the reverb time can be done by absorbing the first order reflections and diffusing the secondary ones so the room doesn't seem so confined. Shortening the reverb times is much trickier as it generally involves speeding up the echo which can only be done by giving it a closer surface to hit or remixing them into the speakers but you still have to deal with the later reverbs.


Deadening a room or making it more lively is generally about changing your RT60, the length of time it takes to have the volume drop 60db. Acoustic treatments will adjust this number quite easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainkidd /forum/post/18192541


Your point about effective Bass is valid and I am in the process of building a THT subwoofer that should do a pretty good job in there. If it is still not enough I will add a second one.


I have added the acoustic treatments you see on the walls and may add more if deemed necessary down the road but honestly the sound seems pretty good so far. I would really like to have the system professionally calibrated once the sub is finished to ensure that I am getting the most from my system.

A large wall like you have will flex under a lot of bass but there isn't a simple fix for that.


My biggest issue I have seen with the room is the french doors. Those are notably horrible for sound isolation and sometimes will add some rattle if not installed well. Other issues would be fixed easier than the doors, but sometimes you need them for large furniture, spousal approval or some other reason.


As far as professional calibration, what do you have in the way or being able to make calibration adjustments? A professional would take measurements but unless you have some EQ system, the "fix" would generally be in treatments, not changing settings in your electronics and those fixes often times cost a lot more than doing things differently the first time. I am all for looking and seeing what the numbers are, but if you are happy and cannot afford the fix or just don't want to spend the money, ignorance may be bliss.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Yes, it is pretty bare. It also still has a garage door that hasn't been removed or covered.


The best location to load up on the absorption would be the screen wall and if he doesn't want to run carpet across the whole room then acoustic tiles would be highly recommended to avoid having hard surfaces opposite each other.


One nice thing he has going in there with the very high ceiling is the ability to splay the ceiling if we wants to put more work into the construction. The splaying could even be a split level system that leaves some room for nice dramatic lighting to use when the theater is not in use as this appears to be more of a media/game room than a theater.


Finally, if it is more of a media room than dedicated theater, it might be better to have a slightly livlier room for use with music, as that sounds much worse in rooms that are acoustically designed for film use.

 

[mike2060]

Well it would take a lot to deaden that room. And having a "lively" room is certainly fine as long as he doesn't have a 1s RT60 time.

 

[captainkidd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter /forum/post/18192797


Reverb time is the delay it takes for the sound to bounce of secondary, tertiary and later surfaces to come back to your ear. Think the time it takes for an echo - it really is a measure of the size of the room. Longer reverb times make the room sound big but too long and it is confusing, like the echo in a stadium. Lengthening the reverb time can be done by absorbing the first order reflections and diffusing the secondary ones so the room doesn't seem so confined. Shortening the reverb times is much trickier as it generally involves speeding up the echo which can only be done by giving it a closer surface to hit or remixing them into the speakers but you still have to deal with the later reverbs.


Deadening a room or making it more lively is generally about changing your RT60, the length of time it takes to have the volume drop 60db. Acoustic treatments will adjust this number quite easily




A large wall like you have will flex under a lot of bass but there isn't a simple fix for that.


My biggest issue I have seen with the room is the french doors. Those are notably horrible for sound isolation and sometimes will add some rattle if not installed well. Other issues would be fixed easier than the doors, but sometimes you need them for large furniture, spousal approval or some other reason.


As far as professional calibration, what do you have in the way or being able to make calibration adjustments? A professional would take measurements but unless you have some EQ system, the "fix" would generally be in treatments, not changing settings in your electronics and those fixes often times cost a lot more than doing things differently the first time. I am all for looking and seeing what the numbers are, but if you are happy and cannot afford the fix or just don't want to spend the money, ignorance may be bliss.

Thanks for the input guys, unfortunately much of it is over my head

My receiver is a Denon AVR 590, does that have some sort of EQ system? Like I said, I know very little about this stuff.

 

[captainkidd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter /forum/post/18192902


Yes, it is pretty bare. It also still has a garage door that hasn't been removed or covered.


The best location to load up on the absorption would be the screen wall and if he doesn't want to run carpet across the whole room then acoustic tiles would be highly recommended to avoid having hard surfaces opposite each other.


One nice thing he has going in there with the very high ceiling is the ability to splay the ceiling if we wants to put more work into the construction. The splaying could even be a split level system that leaves some room for nice dramatic lighting to use when the theater is not in use as this appears to be more of a media/game room than a theater.


Finally, if it is more of a media room than dedicated theater, it might be better to have a slightly livlier room for use with music, as that sounds much worse in rooms that are acoustically designed for film use.

Music does sound better than movie dialog, thats for sure. I don't intend to carpet the whole thing or do anything drastic with the ceiling at this time so I will have to live with it. I can definitely add more absorption on the screen wall amongst other things. Hopefully it's not a completely lost cause! If nothing else at least I have a pretty good picture.

 

[theWalkinator]



Quote:
Originally Posted by captainkidd /forum/post/18191418


The total dimensions of the garage prior to the wall were 70'L X 20'W X 16'H


I am looking forward to getting it painted, properly lighted and decorated.


Then of course I am planning to remove the huge roll up garage door as it opens out to little steep boat ramp leading in to a Gulf access canal. I intend to replace it with some nice sliders and build a big deck out back over the top of the crappy little boat ramp.


Oh, and I forgot to mention the loft...That one might be a ways off right now but someday...

Wow, with that height, you could potentially build a double decker theater, that will be something really unique and the first in this forum.