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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got some time this weekend to work with MSO.


The green ones are MSO, the red ones are my previous EQ that are sub only + Audyssey. (Audyssey is disabled here for MSO - I'll try to run it and see what happens). This is measured at MLP. It looks like group delay got worse. Also, the delays are funky (40/50mS for the subs in MiniDSP), so I've got some learning to do I guess.


Looks like +/-3dB 23-110Hz? Or +/-5dB 10-110Hz. :confused:




Denon X4400H. No subwoofer configured, just fronts full range > MiniDSP 2x4HD
Behringer iNUKE 1000DSP > 2x HSU Research HB-1 MK2
Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 > 2x DIY sealed Dayton Ultimax UM18-22


Waterfall comparisons (REW, then MSO)












Group delay comparison (red = REW, green = MSO). This is one area where it looks worse with MSO.





Distortion comparison. Red = REW, green = MSO.





SPL / response comparison. Red = REW, green = MSO.


 

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Do you mean delay between different subs of 40/50 ms? If the difference in distance between map and the subs is a couple meters, it would normally be 3ms give or take.

You’re comparing rew generated filters vs mso? Another approach I’ve been trying is just set the delays and run audyssey. It can do pretty well, not as good as a good pre-eq but surprised me. It gets the delays wrong a lot with subs. If you have two channel output on avr then it will eq separately but even so it gets the distance wrong, maybe due to reflections I’m not sure. Tweaking the distance post audyssey using rew pays off here.

When you use one output from avr for subs with different distance audyssey definitely gets confused, I usually set it after and then do delay (before and post audyssey) in minidsp. I don’t know if any of that really answers you but it’s thoughts based on what you said.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do you mean delay between different subs of 40/50 ms? If the difference in distance between map and the subs is a couple meters, it would normally be 3ms give or take.

You’re comparing rew generated filters vs mso? Another approach I’ve been trying is just set the delays and run audyssey. It can do pretty well, not as good as a good pre-eq but surprised me. It gets the delays wrong a lot with subs. If you have two channel output on avr then it will eq separately but even so it gets the distance wrong, maybe due to reflections I’m not sure. Tweaking the distance post audyssey using rew pays off here.

When you use one output from avr for subs with different distance audyssey definitely gets confused, I usually set it after and then do delay (before and post audyssey) in minidsp. I don’t know if any of that really answers you but it’s thoughts based on what you said.
With MSO, the AVR has no subs configured. Just full range front speakers, the MiniDSP crossed at 60 between subs and mains.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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With MSO, the AVR has no subs configured. Just full range front speakers, the MiniDSP crossed at 60 between subs and mains.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Got it. Have only played with mso a little. Still that is kind of the same thing. If some subs are closer to you pay close attention to the delay and the crossover range, and potential phase shift between sealed and ported etc all before doing eq. You didn’t say if some subs are closer to mlp?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Got it. Have only played with mso a little. Still that is kind of the same thing. If some subs are closer to you pay close attention to the delay and the crossover range, and potential phase shift between sealed and ported etc all before doing eq. You didn’t say if some subs are closer to mlp?
I just measured, and one sub is 2 inches closer to MLP than the other one (the corner loaded one underneath FR). That translates to 0.15ms, and I put that delay in, measured before/after (no PEQ, Audyssey or anything else active) and there was not much of a difference, so I think it's negligible, i.e. let MSO deal with it by having 0 on the subs and mains from the start.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Thanks. I had a read and it makes sense, I'll try halving it to 40ms or so, and give it a shot.
Anyone considering delaying one sub 40 msec more than another has no business using the software, especially after reading what I added to the documentation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Anyone considering delaying one sub 40 msec more than another has no business using the software, especially after reading what I added to the documentation.
After running the software for a few hours, and it tells you "sub2 needs +40ms", you might just put that in.

I just realized that when you configure the MiniDSP for like this:

Input 1 (L) > FL, sub1, sub2
Input 2 (R) > FR, sub1, sub2

Instead of

Input 1 (L) > FL, sub1
Input 2 (R) > FR, sub2

Audyssey freaks out. So that's not really supported if you want to use Audyssey, unless I'm missing something.
 
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