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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just thought I'd report in on my new setup. I have modified my RP56 DVD player with an SDI output. I have it hooked up to a HTPC using an SDI silk card. DScaler is running through a Radeon 7500 and displaying on a Sanyo PLV-60HT.


Compared to the progressive output from the RP56 (Sage) the output is significantly better. There is really no comparison there.


Compared to WinDVD, the picture is just as clear. I would say the colors are slightly better but that might just be because I have it better calibrated. The real difference is with motion, especially with pans. The SDI pans are completely smooth compared to WinDVD's that are a bit jerky.


I think this is about the best setup possible. I would highly recommend it.


Thanks,

Matt


P.S. If you are really brave, I documented the necessary procedure to install the SDI output in the RP56. Check it out at http://diysdi.bonfigleo.com


Mostly, I wouldn't suggest doing this unless you are willing to burn a dvd player. immersive inc does these upgrades for a very reasonable price.
 

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Hi Bonfigleo:


___I finally heard back from someone that not only knows how to calibrate an HTPC but also has used the SDI setup in side by sides. His comments were that it is not as capable as a Ravisent decoder SW player w/ a Radeon due to a problem with noise from the SDI cards in particular.


___Good Luck


___Wayne R. Gerdes

___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.

___ [email protected]
 

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Xcel,


Your comments seem to be at odds with Cliffs who certainly thought SDI was better. Also if your friend is getting SDI noise he has a problem! I have a SDI Denon 1600 on order so I'll find out for certain soon enough.


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
xcel,


I'm curious as to what kind of noise that we are talking about. I have been told (Glimmie) that small white dots in the picture are symptomatic of problems with the video data. I do not observe this in my setup at all.


Noise aside, in this setup, how did the software player perform on pans? In my setup there are some pans where the sw player is very jerky. Maybe I have something not setup correctly.


Maybe Glimmie can shed some light on this?


Thanks,

Matt
 

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I have also done an extensive SDI test and SDI/Ravisent comparison last month and when i find the time, i will post my thoughts. Including screenshots and all.
 

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Apparently the white dots are called zits in the trade. They are timming errors. The coloured noise you can get such as green, magenta or blue noise is a result of corrupt data blocks.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bjoern Roy
I have also done an extensive SDI test and SDI/Ravisent comparison last month and when i find the time, i will post my thoughts. Including screenshots and all.
BJoern,


Thats mean!, give us a snippet
 

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"Cliff is who I spoke with directly about it a few short weeks ago..."


Perhaps he could clarify this. He didn't mention that as a shortcoming when I spoke with him.


Some of our early customers had problems with noise. We made some changes to the boards and we haven't had any complaints since.
 

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Hi Bjoern:


___Please let us in on your preference today. I will definitely like to read the large and informative posts w/ screen shots as you always supply but which one you prefer (TheaterTek or SDI Silk) with a 10 paragraph or less explanation would suffice ;)


___Thanks in advance


___Wayne R. Gerdes

___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.

___ [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm not sure about the color block errors but it is appearently fairly easy to fix the "zits" by adding a cap to the clock line.
 

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Just for reference, this is what Cliff did say about SDI.


"The image sharpness (resolution?) is much higher with the SDI Silk than the best soft DVD decoder even with HWMC."
 

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Wayne (xcel) is speaking “out of school†and providing incomplete information. All of which I don’t care to respond to in pubic.


Also there is a current thread about SDI noise and cables in the Processors Forum where it has been recommended to use 50-ohm coax cable instead of the typical 75-ohm stuff. My scope testing and visual testing was done with 75-ohm cable. When I get some time I’ll buy a 50-ohm instrument cable at Rat Shack and do more testing.
 

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Quote:
Mostly, I wouldn't suggest doing this unless you are willing to burn a dvd player. immersive inc does these upgrades for a very reasonable price.
A few months ago I tore the cover off my player with evil intent and then saw all the leeetle teeeeny timy wires and trace and remembered how long it has been since I did much soldering. So I wimped out and had someone else do it.


But I love my SDI/DScaler/RP56 combo. ;)


Wayne -


I haven't noticed the noise problem. Maybe I need new glasses or maybe I just got lucky. Or maybe it's just better to use a cheap cable. ???


- Tom
 

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Hmm... Where to start...

"The image sharpness (resolution?) is much higher with the SDI Silk than the best soft DVD decoder even with HWMC."


I just had a nice conversation with Cliff and the "noise" that he mentioned is mosquito noise on the luma and we aren't quite sure what on the chroma. This is not noise of the type that they are discussing on the video processors forum.


Anyway, as Cliff said, that's less than half the story. It could very well just be "noise" in another form--i.e., detail. :D (And assorted "warts" of the MPEG encoding and decoding process.) Of course, if you blur everything, then you won't have this noise. ;) Any takers? :p


I too am interested in seeing Bjoern's review. Bjoern: Could you pm me with one of two words: good or bad? Might have to stock the fridge with a 24-pack before reading the full review. :D
 

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Quote:
Anyway, as Cliff said, that's less than half the story. It could very well just be "noise" in another form--i.e., detail. (And assorted "warts" of the MPEG encoding and decoding process.) Of course, if you blur everything, then you won't have this noise. Any takers?
Dan -


If it's just that the image is crisp enough to see some mpeg2 mosquito noise then a first step might be to turn on the hardware horizontal filter in the Advanced Video Flags panel. I did that with the VE_Flag pic I posted and no one called me on it. ;)


But I don't usually run with it that way, or need to. The SDI/Silk has less noise than any card I've ever seen.


- Tom
 

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"If it's just that the image is crisp enough to see some mpeg2 mosquito noise then a first step might be to turn on the hardware horizontal filter in the Advanced Video Flags panel."


It very well could be something more than mpeg2 mosquito noise (don't want to put theories in Cliff's mouth), but that seems like a plausible culprit. Maybe SDI accentuates this noise more than other methods. Not so sure. But maybe my less trained eyes just see detail...


I turn off both the horizontal and vertical filters. The only flags that I keep on for SDI are the even and odd luma peaking. These default to "on" anyway for digital input each time you switch to SDI, as does the full luma range default to off.
 

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Hi Dan,


I remember reading about the reactions to Chris Stephens' X projector and SDI to a Teranex at CES 2001. He did get responses about how noticeable the MPEG and film grain were. Not that many systems approach his level of quality, but something could be happening with SDI here that's like what's seen on Chris' system.


Ben



Ben
 

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I am a bit new to this, but have been responding on the SDI noise issues in the other thread. It seems that there is a bit of inconsistency in the termination of this SDI type connection. I am unclear as to whether the SDI/Silk card and the one in the LEEZA have the same receiver and termination. The problem seems to be with the characeristics of the receiver's Adaptive Cable Equalizer. I would have thought that these products followed some standard defined somewhere for the cable, but apparently not.

Running data cleanly on an unbalanced output at these rates is touchy and will become even more apparent as resolution increases. If your components are designed with identical SDI drivers then as you hunt down the correct cable type, as was done in the other thread, it should hold true for everyone using the same receiver. Make sure you leave the characteristics as identical as possible including length.


One Comment I have regarding SDI versus SW picture quality. SDI is a 10 bit interface, that's all the resolution you get. Cliff, what is the restored digital resolution out of a DVD? If it is higher than 10 bits then, ignoring the SW frame rate limitations due to processor speed etc..., your picture should be better from the HTPC. Correct?


Bonfigleo, Adding a cap to which clock line?


Thanks,

Ray
 
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