[Canuck21]

Ok, many here will agree that HD DVD announcements or rather lack of announcement were a big disappointment to a lot of us. No matter the news of new CE manufacturers coming or a possible increase in disc space, what people remember the most is the content announcements and Blu-ray wins big here.


In retrospect though, shouldn't we expect this already? I mean we are all aware for a long time that Blu-ray has more studio support so this is to be expected. The main reason people got upset are the rumors of Disney and especially Lionsgate going neutral. Those rumors caused more harm to HD DVD than anything else. If we had never heard of the rumors, I don't think we would be this disappointed right now. The rumors made people expect something that otherwise wouldn't. In the future, keep it to yourself if you care for the format and if it turns out true, people will be surprisingly happy. What we have now are worse than the lack of titles.


As for CE, HD DVD is improving with a couple high end players and of course the Chinese players. Where are the CE announcements for Blu-ray? Do you remember last year's CES because I surely do and what attracted my attention the most was the multiples BR players. I hardly looked at the titles on both side since I already knew the supporting studios, I was more curious about the packaging than the titles. I was intrigued about the players and was wondering if I could maybe afford one. This year, there's only the slightly cheaper Samsung and another Sony player and that's it. Don't you think that's disappointing also? To me, that's a big let down because that means I will still not be able to afford a BR player.


Am I still disappointed at HD DVD? You bet I am but that's because of the expectation that I shouldn't have. If it wasn't for the rumors, I think I would have been somewhat satisfied with the HD DVD announcements.

 

[amirm]

Good observations

.

 

[turansformer]

If only others would have a more humble and objective approach as yourself....

 

[Snickering Hound]

Not disappointed with HD-DVD announcements here, quite the contrary, but I'd largely agree with this.

 

[Maxpower1987]

I think that you are spot on with the content announcement, but on the hardware side it is unfair to say the BDA didn't have anything to show. One new Samsung, one prototype from Sharp featuring TrueHD and DTS-HDMA decoding, two prototypes from Sony with no details, and one prototype recorder from Hitachi.


People ask where G2 players from Panasonic and Pioneer are, but Pioneer have only recently released their Elite player, and Panasonic have promised TrueHD and DTS-HDMA decoding for their player already, so a G2 player would only do these things out of the box as extra.


That is not a bad showing, the only thing missing IMO is the knockout $500 player.

 

[b2bonez]

Barring any big surprises (Uni going to Total HD discs

) I expect a hot, dry summer with a few announcements and the BD studios starting to pack the channel with more title releases. The first being a day and date of the new Bond movie...

b2b

 

[Deane Johnson]

I was hoping for some cheap Chinese players, not because I wanted to purchase a cheap player, but because it would have extended the market further toward the masses.


Content is going to be a big deal, and BD certainly had a good week at CES. Universal's absence from the show probably has something to do with some internal executive turmoil that may rear it's ugly head openly sometime soon. Just my guess.


By the way, I'm format neutral in the sense that I haven't purchased either format yet. I want to see some player stability, and I want to know for sure who's going to win. I buy too many discs not to know I'm with the horse that finishes the race.

 

[Canuck21]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/0


I think that you are spot on with the content announcement, but on the hardware side it is unfair to say the BDA didn't have anything to show. One new Samsung, one prototype from Sharp featuring TrueHD and DTS-HDMA decoding, two prototypes from Sony with no details, and one prototype recorder from Hitachi.


People ask where G2 players from Panasonic and Pioneer are, but Pioneer have only recently released their Elite player, and Panasonic have promised TrueHD and DTS-HDMA decoding for their player already, so a G2 player would only do these things out of the box as extra.


That is not a bad showing, the only thing missing IMO is the knockout $500 player.

Compared to last year, this showing is underwhelming. Like the Sharp player, I don't know but I never see any Shard DVD players where I am, so I can't imagine seeing a Sharp BR player. If I can't afford a normal BR player, do you think that I will be able to afford a recorder from Hitachi? The thing with BR players is that they are not within reach with J6P which I belong to when it comes to pocket size. When I see HD DVD, although CE manufacturers are limited, the players cover a larger field of consumers if you understand what I mean. No matter how you spin it, the hardware announcements for Blu-ray was disappointing.

 

[jagouar]

I agree as a whole this ces was lackluster for both camps imo. I went to both camps booths and was pretty uninspired by both. I did think toshiba did a pretty good job pimping the hd-dvd players and dedicated good space to it where sony really dissapointed me with how little they had on bluray (maybe i was expecting more but they only even had ~15 ps3's at the booth and i didnt see a single one playing a bd movie... now i didnt look around too hard at sony booth so it probably was there somewhere)


That said ms only had ~10 360's (which was equally dissapointing) but I did see 2 360+hd-dvd players demoing content at the hd-dvd group booth.


As the HT guys mentioned there were more companies with bd players but nobody really was showing off the hd-dvd or bluray players this year (i really got that feeling from the bd companies like panasonic, sharp etc). They all seemed to be tucked away in the corner and you had to know what you were looking for at their booths to find them. This show to me seemed to be all about the TV's.

 

[onanie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21 /forum/post/0


Compared to last year, this showing is underwhelming. Like the Sharp player, I don't know but I never see any Shard DVD players where I am, so I can't imagine seeing a Sharp BR player. If I can't afford a normal BR player, do you think that I will be able to afford a recorder from Hitachi? The thing with BR players is that they are not within reach with J6P which I belong to when it comes to pocket size. When I see HD DVD, although CE manufacturers are limited, the players cover a larger field of consumers if you understand what I mean. No matter how you spin it, the hardware announcements for Blu-ray was disappointing.

Of course, no matter how you spin it, the BD content announcements are also nothing short of spectacular in comparison. With all the major CE companies having just started selling their own renditions of hardware, what need is there to announce new products (par Samsung) while the consumer has his hands full with the current range? Do you really need to see a BDP-S2 now? The hardware situation couldn't be better now (which I can't say for HD DVD).

 

[amirm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie /forum/post/0


Do you really need to see a BDP-S2 now?

Sure. Then people can stop making fun of Sony for selling a BD player which does not play the format they invented before that (the CD).

Seriously, BD products are very much lacking compared to HD DVD. They don't decode advanced audio formats, lack networking, don't have secondary video decoders for PiP, storage, etc. And they cost a lot more. Very few of them are moving as a result in retail.


So yes, new products are expected from them. Alas, the economics make no sense for them. They just struggled to put out first gen products end of last year, leaving them high and dry at CES...

 

[onanie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm /forum/post/0


Sure. Then people can stop making fun of Sony for selling a BD player which does not play the format they invented before that (the CD).

Seriously, BD products are very much lacking compared to HD DVD. They don't decode advanced audio formats, lack networking, don't have secondary video decoders for PiP, storage, etc. And they cost a lot more. Very few of them are moving as a result in retail.


So yes, new products are expected from them. Alas, the economics make no sense for them. They just struggled to put out first gen products end of last year, leaving them high and dry at CES...

If one's expectations are aligned with the natural course of events, then it is understandable that CE companies feel no need to revise their current offerings so soon after release. What was supposedly a catastrophic delay is now merely a blessing to those who finally own the players, and I don't see many people killing themselves over not being able to hook the machine up to the internet (in either camp). Content is surely a welcome sight now with all those hardware around, isn't it?

 

[amirm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie /forum/post/0


If one's expectations are aligned with the natural course of events, then it is understandable that CE companies feel no need to revise their current offerings so soon after release.

Of course. Think they have already won. So why innovate and ship equal functionality to HD DVD?

Quote:
What was supposedly a catastrophic delay is now merely a blessing to those who finally own the players, and I don't see many people killing themselves over not being able to hook the machine up to the internet (in either camp).

If all is well, what explains the super slow sales and tiny installed base? I sure hear a lot of AVS people crying for advanced audio support which has not been forthcoming. And for most others, price is a huge barrier to adoption.

Quote:
Content is surely a welcome sight now with all those hardware around, isn't it?

What hardware? Take away PS3 and folks would have been wondering what all the fuss was about wrt to BD format

. It would have been a distant memory.


I mean really, you have two of the three core BD companies not doing their own design: Sony and Philips. If they don't care enough to build their own gear, don't you wonder about prospects of stand-alone BD products?

 

[Monty22001]

Just because RCA folded with hddvd, doesn't mean Sony and Philips will on BD... I hope you aren't trying to get at that.

 

[amirm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001 /forum/post/0


Just because RCA folded with hddvd, doesn't mean Sony and Philips will on BD... I hope you aren't trying to get at that.

Before RCA "folded" on HD DVD, they folded on BD. In case it is not known, parent company of RCA is Thomson who is a board member of BDA. Yet they never shipped a BD player.


Second fact, Thomson is getting out of consumer business. They sold their TV business a couple of years ago and are existing other lines. So don't read their actions as format specific anymore.


Back to Philips/Sony, it is pretty amazing isn't it? That Sony/Philips expect other companies to put R&D into building players when they don't themselves. They know something that others don't seem to know...

 

[Monty22001]

And what is your guess that they know? Oh nm, that they realize BD hardware is doomed. Gotcha.

 

[Innerloop]

There's no question why standalone player sales are slow - the WAR itself. Everyone is taking a "wait and see" attitude, especially with the current prices for standalones. Whether or not the box has an Ethernet port or supports PiP is so far from the consumer's mind as to be irrelevant at this point. Even the price is irrelevant if they feel there is risk involved in picking a side.


Once we get rid of the format war, then we can start ramping up consumer adoption and let the CE manufacturers get a bit more aggressive on price & features to try to snap up consumers who are actually opening their wallets.


At least with the PS3, people feel they can take the plunge and not risk owning a brick - at the very least they will get the gaming machine portion of things which has zero risk of becoming an orphaned piece of hardware.


Its absurd to think that consumers are holding their purchases waiting for "TrueHD decoding" or some other bit of esortica that fascinates us....

 

[Maxpower1987]

I was under the impression that Phillips has taken a back seat in the development of Blu-ray, and it has been Panasonic and Sony who have done most of the work behind BD.


The point about Sony is correct though, I do wish they would release an ES line player, I would be first in the queue to by it!

 

[kjack]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/0


I was under the impression that Phillips have taken a back seat in the development of Blu-ray, and it has been Panasonic and Sony who have done most of the work behind BD.

Actually, Philips has been just as involved in BD as Sony and Panasonic, just maintained a much lower public profile about it.

 

[xboxboi]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack /forum/post/0


Actually, Philips has been just as involved in BD as Sony and Panasonic, just maintained a much lower public profile about it.

hopefully philips will come out with their own player instead of the rebadged Samsung (especially with Samsung's rotten reputation is BD player). Proof, half of the reporters left the Samsung press conference when they started their Q&A