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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m looking at buying an Acer H6500 ($800 on Newegg) which is about the limit of my budget for the projector.


I’m upgrading from a 52” 1080p Samsung LCD.


Most of my video (TV and movie files) are in 1080p and I am not interested in 3D


I’ll be projecting on a wall with about a 15’ wide screen area. I will likely upgrade the projecting surface later.


I would love some feedback on this projector choice. Is this the best use of my projector budget?


Thanks for any input.
 

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There isn't a lot of info on this projector as far as independent testing in this forum, so it's hard to agree or disagree.

If this is the limit of your budget, then it isn't a bad choice anyhow judging by reviews.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500#post_22485490


There isn't a lot of info on this projector as far as independent testing in this forum, so it's hard to agree or disagree.

If this is the limit of your budget, then it isn't a bad choice anyhow judging by reviews.

Thanks fro your input


I can push the budget a bit, but the reviews I've seen have it beating out the models that are even slightly more expensive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500/0_50#post_22485893


..., very limited inputs/outputs, no audio out, NO internal speakers at all, RBE, and no pro reviews. Also, since no pro reviews, do you know if it has Low lag for gaming? Do we know how it compares to other models in this price range? No, because that is what the pro reviewers tell us, they get lots of these units and compare them. .
Are you biased against Acer for some reason?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/acer/h6500/index.php
http://www.projectorcentral.com/acer-h6500-1080p-home-theater-projector-review.htm
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/acer-h6500-dlp-video


Limited inputs?.. it has 2 HDMI, component, vga and composite PLUS PIP. Everything the 8200 has except s-video. deal breaker :/

No speakers? no audio? i can't think of 2 less important and more often ignored features of a home theater projector.

Lag? One review said 1/60 sec. a single frame.


Sharpness was reported as excellent corner to corner

Eco mode lasts 5000 hours

Fan noise might be higher than others.. small projectors usually are

RBE unknown.. didn't see a color wheel speed.


yeah, the viewsonic 8200 is the most likely competitor, along with the HD23 and refurb 8350. It might come down to offsets (8200 is 2x HD23) and RBE
 

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The Viewsonic will have some advantages, but hard to say which has the better image without them side-by-side:


The Acer and Viewsonic are about the same brightness. It also appears they are about the same sharpness.


The Acer 6500 has a 4x or 3x color wheel (more than likely it is a 6-seg 4x like it's big brother the Acer9500bd).

--The Viewsonic has a 7-segment, 4x color wheel, which really is more like a 5x color wheel in practice, the Viewsonic has LESS RBE


The Acer has a lamp dimming function to get blacks slightly darker than the Viewsonic.

--The Acer might beat the VS's black levels slightly with the lamp dimming


The Viewsonic has a nearly full set of calibration options (except custom gamma) to allow you to calibrate the gray-scale, and the color gamut

--The Acer only allows presets and some rudimentary adjustments. The Viewsonic will also have more accurate color OOTB (other than the slight red push in dark scenes)


As far as the Optoma hd23, it only has a 3x color wheel so I'd personally avoid it unless you know for sure you are not sensitive to rainbows (many more people see RBE on a 3x CW).

The Optoma hd20 is the other choice, it is dimmer, has a 4x color wheel, but the main issue it only has half the brightness of the others mentioned here.


The Benq w1200 (if gaming lag isn't bothersome) and Mits hc4000 (if you don't need more brightness) would probably be the two best for a little more money, but that's out of budget. You could also look at a refurbished Mitsubishi hc4000.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiggUA  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500#post_22489082


Does anybody know another portable projector that is significantly better than the Acer H6500?

It sort of comes down to features that would be important to each individual. You mentioned "portable projector" , so you are now making "portable" a feature.

Some of the guys in these rooms buy a PJ and ceiling mount it and add A/V receiver and forget about it, just watch movies.


I would consider myself a "portable projector" person myself.

Coming from that standpoint, I judge these PJ's from that standpoint.


Now the reasons I bought the viewsonic Pro8200 was based on ProjectorReviews.Com Yearly Roundup for 2011 (second place tie with epson 8350), because I bought my PJ in Dec 2011, 9 months ago. ( the pro8200 is also in the 2012 round up as honor mention).


In portable unit, it's called "cross-over PJ'. Meaning it can be used in school, business, home theater environment.


The inputs/outputs on the pro8200 are a lot, compare this PJ to others and you see you can hook it up to lots of stuff, audio out, a couple of audio ins, 2 vga,s , mic input, etc. So you could hook up 360, 2 pc's , blu ray, etc. Just look at pictures of back of PJ's to see what I'm talking about.


The viewsonic pro8200 is 3 year warranty with 1 year on bulb, the Acer h6500 is 1 year and 90 days on bulb.


Lumens is important , so 2,000 lumens makes it so you can use in rooms that have some lights on .


Since some people are Rainbow Effect Sensitive, if you have friends over or in group setting, getting a PJ that doesn't have this problem is important, the pro8200 is a model that doesn't suffer from this problem, because of the 7 segment color wheel and 4x color wheel.


The pro8200 is Dark Chip 3 which is the latest chip at this time, this Acer is Dark chip 2, it has to do enhanced picture features.(research it)


The pro8200 has internal speakers that actually work in small rooms, 20 watts (10x2) and you can also add subwoofer via audio out or add computer usb speakers for portable use. The pro8200 has a usb port that I use to power the usb powered speakers. The Acer has NO internal speakers and NO audio out, that is VERY important for portable unit. If you plug a hdmi into the acer how do you get sound out, hdmi contains both sound and video. If you are in bat cave, you would go into A/V receiver and the receiver would split the sound and picture.


Pro8200 has good zoom 1.5 the acer is 1.2 zoom. This gives you more flexible placement.


Now the pro8200 was reviewed as being good at both environments business and home, so Art F reviewed it as being one of the few cross over PJ's that could be used in home theater. Some PJ's could be too bright, which you might need in classroom, in which case it wouldn't be used in bat cave.


Also, check bulb hours and bulb replacement cost, pro8200 has 6,000 hours in eco and 200 dollar bulb replacement. ( it comes out to 3.3 cents per hour cost).


I am gamer, so I need PJ with low lag , especially for multiplayer games to make sure there is not a slight delay between the button push and what is happening on the screen. The pro8200 does have low lag and considered a gaming machine too.


Price is also important in this economy, when on sale the pro8200 is around 700 dollars or under, I picked up mine for 659 9 months ago, it goes on sale from time to time, so for me it was the cheapest good pj I could find that was 1080p.


Now if you want better black levels, you have to pay for it, but we are not talking a big difference, maybe 5 percent better or 10 percent, also it would depend on room you are in, the more light in room the black levels are not as good. So non-portable units that are made for just the bat cave don't have as much lumens, so blacks look better. You mentioned portable PJ, so I gave reasons I bought the pro8200.


Others can mention the reasons they bought another portable PJ. How others view what is good depends on their priorities. Price, warranty, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500#post_22489703


Now if you want better black levels, you have to pay for it, but we are not talking a big difference, maybe 5 percent better or 10 percent, also it would depend on room you are in, the more light in room the black levels are not as good. So non-portable units that are made for just the bat cave don't have as much lumens, so blacks look better.

Most of the above info I can agree / live with, but the blacks thing... The Mits hc4000 does have noticeably darker blacks than the VS Pro8200 (more than 10%), but to really get a huge increase in blacks you need to go with an Epson 5010 or JVC RS-45/RS-46, and then we are talking some serious cash ($2000+ to $3000). You can also look at refurb Epson 8500ub's which can sometimes be had for around $1100, and they will do pretty dark blacks. My JVC does however cream the DLP projectors in black levels, it does 50,000:1 Native on/off with no IRIS needed. The Viewsonic Pro8200 does about 1,500:1, and the Mits hc4000 about 3,500:1 or so in most calibrations.
 

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yeah, the blacks on the mits hc4000 would be better because it is 1300 lumen vs 2,000 lumens of pro8200. So for just bat cave person in light controlled room the mits hc4000 would be better, provided a person didn't suffer from Rainbow Effect and just stayed in batcave. If a person puts Priority of Black levels HIGH , and the other things I mentioned in lower place, including price,warranty, internal speakers, etc, than going for different model would be the right thing for them. That is why it is a mixed bag. Take the mits hc4000 into living room with a light or 2 on, the picture would appear faded. It is easier to dim the pro8200 with a lens filter , but how can you get a 1300 lumen PJ to look good in room with some lights on. You can't. So flexible room lighting conditions I value, some don't.
 

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The blacks are better on the Mits hc4000 because of the Native on/off contrast, the lumens issue is separate and does not affect Native On/Off measurements. Native On/Off has nothing to do directly with the brightness of the image, it has to do with the brightest to darkest on full white/full black, the difference between the two readings (which is the contrast) is not affected by how bright the foot lamberts reading of the 100% IRE full white pattern. When you increase the 100% IRE levels, then you also increase the black levels at the same degree (and vice versa), so the difference in contrast remains the same regardless of the brightness.
 

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@rgtaa

Thank you for your explanation. Portable means for me: I can put it together with my notebook to my trolley and can take it with me. The Acer is very small and light, but the pro8200 is still within reasonable limits. I will measure my bag!


Audio is not important for me, because my notebook has speakers. Is there still any problem with the 1:1 pixel mapping of the Viewsonic (I thought that I read something about this in the forum)?
 

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No-one has confirmed the Pixel Mapping issue has been fixed yet with any of the newer firmware, the last person that bought one recently told me it still had it (about 6 months ago from Newegg). That said, there is some chance the Acer 6500 also has a pixel mapping issue because it's big brother had a pixel mapping issue (Acer 9500bd), and I don't think the Acer 6500 had a firmware upgrade to fix it like its big brother did. That said I am not saying the Acer 6500 has a pixel mapping issue for sure, just saying that it might have one as well.


The pixel mapping issue is not very noticeable in video unless you are sitting super close to the screen (and even then it's not huge), so there is no way to know which of the two projectors are really sharper without an A/B comparison.


The Pro8200 comes with its own carrying case for free if that matters to you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiggUA  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500#post_22489971


@rgtaa

Thank you for your explanation. Portable means for me: I can put it together with my notebook to my trolley and can take it with me. The Acer is very small and light, but the pro8200 is still within reasonable limits. I will measure my bag!

Audio is not important for me, because my notebook has speakers. Is there still any problem with the 1:1 pixel mapping of the Viewsonic (I thought that I read something about this in the forum)?

LOL! Don't get me and Coderguy going on that issue.


I'll let Coderguy give the answer on this. Since you could buy or not buy this model based on pixel mapping, it will be interesting how Coderguy answers that one.



p.s. The pro8200 comes with a carrying case, I'm thinking the longer warranty of the pro8200 would make a difference for me, since you are moving the pj more than home use only. Think about it.
 

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yeah, I just refreshed, it first showed your message 1 min ago, then I refreshed and it said 9 minutes ago. And went before mine did. Weird.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy  /t/1433530/my-projector-choice-do-you-agree-acer-h6500/0_50#post_22489964


The blacks are better on the Mits hc4000 because of the Native on/off contrast, the lumens issue is separate and does not affect Native On/Off measurements. Native On/Off has nothing to do directly with the brightness of the image, it has to do with the brightest to darkest on full white/full black, the difference between the two readings (which is the contrast) is not affected by how bright the foot lamberts reading of the 100% IRE full white pattern. When you increase the 100% IRE levels, then you also increase the black levels at the same degree (and vice versa), so the difference in contrast remains the same regardless of the brightness.

this is absolutely true in a perfect testing environment or light controlled theater. But how many people actually view in that setting?


What about this scenario?


A: .1 - 1000 10,000:1 CR 5x better black levels,, 2.5x better native contrast

B: .5 - 2000 4,000:1 CR


add some ambient light + .5

A: .6 - 1000.5 1667:1 CR

B: 1.0 -2000.5 2000:1 CR


Ambient light does effect contrast levels right? Not in the projector, but in our eyes.
 

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ANSI contrast and intrascene contrast are affected greatly by ambient light.


Native On/Off is additive and should be mostly unchanged from ambient light, but the problem is once you lose too much ANSI and intrascene contrast then Native on/off does not help much because what you end up with is an image that looks like turning a flash light on and off in the room with no detail in the image (just plain light going on and off).


However, in a brighter room a proper calibration would require you to raise the black floor (brightness setting generally controls the black floor, so in that sense you did lose some Native On/Off because you will be unable to raise the WHITE PEAK the same amount as you raised the black floor unless you have a super bright projector). Even if you had a super bright projector and you could first correct the black floor to match the room, while still raisiing the white peak the same amount to go above the room's light, well then the problem becomes you raised the black floor so much that it looks unnaturally washed out.


The reason our eyes see contrast differently from the projected image when you add ambient light is because of the change and loss of intrascene contrast and the raising of the black floor. Light is however mostly purely additive, when you turn the lights on in the room the white peak is raised to the same amount as the black peak (in some situations, again depending on reflections and other stuff), but the difference between white and blacks on the screen at the same time are washed out (intrascene and ANSI).


What ambient light does is kills the intrascene contrast in the image (and the ANSI contrast). Some people get confused because they think that intrascene contrast and ANSI contrast are the same, but they are not. ANSI contrast is only the difference on a pure checkerboard pattern as noted above, but in many scenes (most actually) the projected IRE video level in a given movie scene never goes above 50-80 IRE and never achieves maximum white level. When near maximum white levels are achieved (like in the final Harry Potter movie when he is temporarily in heaven), that was probably close to max IRE on the whites but that is not how most scenes are shot. Intrascene contrast is the difference between the brightest and darkest spot of any color (or gray) on the screen at the same time, whereas ANSI is the difference in intrascene contrast ONLY when using a checkerboard pattern. In darker scenes where there is more dark black than bright white, then the measured Native On/Off contrast has more effect than ANSI contrast as to how much intrascene contrast a projector will put out.


In a bright room, the brightness of the projector matters more than the contrast because you need to get the white peaks to be above the room's surrounding ambient light levels, and this is more important than the black level until you have a darkened room. In a darkened room, all types of contrast matter (Native On/Off, ANSI, Intrascene, etc...), but most important for movies in a dark room is generally the Native On/Off contrast over the ANSI contrast.
 

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Coderguy!

I think we have to nickname you "the professor".


Some heavy reading. And I'm impressed you can write like that off the top of your head.

I wish I lived closer to you, just to see how much better you can make these PJ look , I'm sure you make these movies/games come alive with your room setup and calibration equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm seeing a lot of buzz about the Optoma HD20 and it seems to be rated higher higher than the Acer H6500. Comparing the spec numbers the Acer seems to come out on top. I know the specs can be misleading. Is the HD20 actually the better projector? If so, can you tell me why or in what way?


Thanks
 
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