[Fettastic]

I'm just as flaberghasted as you probably are. I don't understand it myself.


I recently bought the Panasonic SA-XR57K 7.1 HDMI receiver for $300 at Walmart.com.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4956282


Just for the heck of it, I went ahead and hooked up my HD-A1 via HDMI through my Monoprice 5X1 switcher to the receiver. Basically I just wanted to check out the audio through HDMI.


To my utter astonishment...my black crush was gone!


I am not technically minded enough to know how that could happen, but I assume the receiver changes the YCRB (or whatever it is) to RGB, or vice-versa, I've lost track of this issue since it cropped up so long ago.


Whatever happened, it did the trick! I've been so irritated over this issue for so long. Being forced to upgrade to 2.0 to watch several movies was quite annoying because I had to start using component, which isn't as sharp on my set. And of course I could no longer upconvert DVDs.


But that's all over now and whew, it's a relief! I just thought I'd post this here to give hope to those also suffering black crush. I obviously can't guarentee it will work for everyone, but it did for me.


So if you're already in the market for an HDMI receiver and are suffering the DVI black crush problem, you might want to give this one a try. It could kill two birds with one stone.

 

[JOHNnDENVER]

The black crush issue is a strange one. Really puts the manufacturer is a hard position because technically this would mean your A1 never had a black crush issue in the first place and the issue laid elswhere.

 

[Fettastic]

I'm assuming my receiver isn't the only one that does this. Has anyone had the same results with other models?

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER /forum/post/0


The black crush issue is a strange one. Really puts the manufacturer is a hard position because technically this would mean your A1 never had a black crush issue in the first place and the issue laid elswhere.

My A1 was perfect with 1.2. Like many others, when I upgraded to 1.4, it happened. It was a dramatically different picture than what I was used to. The colors were darker and the shadows were pitch. No matter how high I cranked the brightness, detail was just gone. I switched back and forth between HDMI-to-DVI and component and the difference was stark.


With all these different electronic devices communicating with each other over HDMI, something somewhere changed when I hooked it up through the receiver. Suddenly the image is corrected. I can't explain it, it just happened.


I did more tests between component and HDMI-to-DVI and now they are identical, except the HDMI is slightly sharper, as it was before.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Maybe your XR57 has a secret beta HDMI 1.3 implementation and you're seeing deep color.


It's not surprizing, given that Panasonic is based in Secaucus, NJ, right across Meadowlands Parkway from the once-planned east coast mooring of the Spruce Goose on the Hackensack River. I don't believe in coincidence.

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey /forum/post/0


Maybe your XR57 has a secret beta HDMI 1.3 implementation and you're seeing deep color.


It's not surprizing, given that Panasonic is based in Secaucus, NJ, right across Meadowlands Parkway from the once-planned east coast mooring of the Spruce Goose on the Hackensack River. I don't believe in coincidence.

The A1 has 1.1 and my HDTV only has DVI so somehow I doubt that's the cause.

 

[Jack Gilvey]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic /forum/post/0


The A1 has 1.3 and my HDTV only has DVI so somehow I doubt that's the cause.

Even if I buy the bit about the A1 having 1.3 (really?), you can't deny the Hackensack River part...it's spooky.

 

[JOHNnDENVER]

LOL.. Oh man... You know Jack may be on to something here.

 

[Forceflow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER /forum/post/0


LOL.. Oh man... You know Jack may be on to something here.

hahaha

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey /forum/post/0


Even if I buy the bit about the A1 having 1.3 (really?), you can't deny the Hackensack River part...it's spooky.

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant it has 1.1.

 

[JOHNnDENVER]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic /forum/post/0


My A1 was perfect with 1.2. Like many others, when I upgraded to 1.4, it happened. It was a dramatically different picture than what I was used to. The colors were darker and the shadows were pitch. No matter how high I cranked the brightness, detail was just gone. I switched back and forth between HDMI-to-DVI and component and the difference was stark.


With all these different electronic devices communicating with each other over HDMI, something somewhere changed when I hooked it up through the receiver. Suddenly the image is corrected. I can't explain it, it just happened.


I did more tests between component and HDMI-to-DVI and now they are identical, except the HDMI is slightly sharper, as it was before.

I understand the dicotemy(sp?) here. It is just a strange issue on this one. I sure feel lucky I never had to deal with it.

 

[lovswr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic /forum/post/0


I'm assuming my receiver isn't the only one that does this. Has anyone had the same results with other models?

Ok, I was not going to say anything for fear of being ridiculed. I got a new Sony STR-DA5200ES two days ago. I have the DirecTV H10 (non MPEG-4 HD box), the HD-DVD add on, & a Sony upconverting DVD player. The Satty box & the DVD player are HDMI in & the add on s comonent.


The first thing I hooked up when I got my 5200 home was the D* box. Watching Heroes, I noticed that is just seemed to look better on my Sony 42A10 then I remebered. I chalked this up to "new season" & better produciton values. However, it continued. Watching The Incredibles DVD at 720P, I cold not help but notice that the colors were more vivid & in a few scenes, I had that total suspeded belief of "being there". Also, as you say, black crush, or should I say, what used to be just black had different "levels" that I had seemingly never noticed before. My HD-DVD add on being converted to HDMI I noticed no change at all.




My working theory. These boxes are proper HDMI recievers. That is to say, the "HDMI" container is stripped off & new one rebuilt before it is output to your display device. I work in telecommunications & this is known as regeneration. However that really is my WAG & I could be full of poop too. YMMV!

 

[wjmeyer]

My RPTV has DVI and I also have a darker picture after upgrading to 2.0.

Now that you have sound via HDMI into your new receiver, do you need to boost the subwoofter signal or do you still need to lower the other 5 channels -10db to get decent subwoofer volume. Assuming you were using analogs out before your new receiver, do you find any difference now with sound via HDMI.

Do you have other video inputs into the receiver using the HDMI out to your DVI TV input? Do you see any difference with these inputs?

I plan to get a new receiver, but want to wait until HDMI 1.3 and decoders for the new DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, etc. is in the new receivers. This is an interesting development, any additional info. is very helpful.

 

[Sketcha]

Posting to subscribe.

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmeyer /forum/post/0


My RPTV has DVI and I also have a darker picture after upgrading to 2.0.

Now that you have sound via HDMI into your new receiver, do you need to boost the subwoofter signal or do you still need to lower the other 5 channels -10db to get decent subwoofer volume. Assuming you were using analogs out before your new receiver, do you find any difference now with sound via HDMI.

My subwoofer died like a year ago. I live in an apartment so I've just

dealt with it. I have 14" woofers on my tower speakers so I get plenty of bass anyway.


As for if it is better via HDMI, I can't really say. I guess it's the same.

Quote:
Do you have other video inputs into the receiver using the HDMI out to your DVI TV input? Do you see any difference with these inputs?

I plan to get a new receiver, but want to wait until HDMI 1.3 and decoders for the new DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, etc. is in the new receivers. This is an interesting development, any additional info. is very helpful.

I have a PS3, a DigitalStream ATSC decoder and now the HD-A1 all fed into my Monoprice 5X1 HDMI switcher, which then connects to HDMI port on the XR57. I haven't noticed any changes in the other equipments functionality through the receiver, except the 7.1 of course.


There is one fault with the XR57 and it might be a deal-breaker for some. It can't matrix PCM beyond 5.1. So your player must be set to bitstream for the extra speakers to work.


The only receiver I know for certain that CAN decode those rear channels in PCM is $1,000.00. No thank you.

 

[DavidHir]

Fettastic,


Have you verified this "fix" didn't alter or compress the grayscale (as happens in some cases)?

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir /forum/post/0


Fettastic,


Have you verified this "fix" didn't alter or compress the grayscale (as happens in some cases)?

How do I check that?


I can say that the image looks identical when switching between HDMI and component so if it did, it's not noticable.

 

[mrkrispy]

thats great news...ummm for the XR57 (I own one also haha)

 

[rdjam]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic /forum/post/0


Just for the heck of it, I went ahead and hooked up my HD-A1 via HDMI through my Monoprice 5X1 switcher to the receiver. Basically I just wanted to check out the audio through HDMI.

Yes, I made note of this in some older posts.


The A1 doesn't have a problem with BTB or WTW really. It's just that HDMI negotiation between certain devices and the A1 don't work out sometimes, causing the issue. Best as I can understand.


For instance, I don't have an issue, since my A1 plugs into the Vantage HD.

 

[Fettastic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam /forum/post/0


Yes, I made note of this in some older posts.


The A1 doesn't have a problem with BTB or WTW really. It's just that HDMI negotiation between certain devices and the A1 don't work out sometimes, causing the issue. Best as I can understand.


For instance, I don't have an issue, since my A1 plugs into the Vantage HD.

I knew it was capable because 1.2 worked fine. Something in the upgrade to 1.4 screwed up the messaging for lack of a better word. I can only imagine what that glitch was or how the XR57 cleaned it up.