AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 60 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had both projectors, and I ended up switching the Mits for the Sanyo Z5, because I was bothered by the DLP motion, DLP clarity, and the DLP artifacts. Let me first say that both of these projectors have their ups and downs with image quality, but I think the Mits has many more downsides than the Z5 for PQ. Also, I am going to do this review based solely on image quality and not technical ease or performance. There is plenty of information already on the web and in these forums regarding the differences in mounting ease and technical abilities of the 2 projectors. Before reading the below summary, let me first say that the Mitsubishi is intuitive and simple to calibrate. The Z5 is a techno beast, and some of the weaknesses I see in the Z5 are likely due to the fact that I am still learning it. I will try to update my review to see if I can improve the Z5's color pop.

Summary

I can sum this up quite easily. The Mitsubishi HD1000 looks more like a RPTV (specifically a Mits DLP), and the Sanyo Z5 looks more like your local movie theater, except I think the Z5 has even more pop than most non-digital theaters. For closeup shots, like a butterfly on a leaf, I would BARELY prefer the Mitsubishi due to color pop, but the Z5 is right up there. However, for normal and wide lens shots, I would prefer the Z5 WELL OVER the Mits, because it looks more clear, and this is especially noticeable when looking at distant backgrounds behind the primary scene. The Z5 also seems to have a more consistent focus to the image, whereas the Mits seems to have trouble with focus during movement. The Mitsubishi has more vibrant colors and is definitely more accurate with colors, various reviews have also stated this. The Z5 produces a clearer image and has less defects (fewer artificats, less noise, sharper, clearer, and better motion).


Compared to other LCD sets I've seen, RPTV or otherwise, the Z5 has an incredibly silky smooth image, with no vertical banding or SDE. Forget being worried about SDE or vertical banding with this projector, I saw basically none (it was so slight that when I thought I saw it, I wasnt even sure if it was vertical banding). I was watching only a 70" screen, but I was sitting 7.5' away and still did not see it. The sky and clouds looked completely natural on the Z5, and I emphasize that I saw NO pixelation in the clouds like you see on some LCD TV's, this actually shocked me. The only category the Mitsubishi wins in is color pop and brightness in my opionion. The Z5 is plenty bright for screens 92" or less, you might want to get a mild gain screen for 100", and high gain for over 100".


1) Background Clarity: Z5 wins

2) All movement fast or otherwise: Z5 wins

3) Color Pop: Mitsubishi wins, but not by a huge margin

4) Film Look: Z5 wins

5) Black Levels: Z5 wins usually, but Mits wins sometimes, it really depends on how well you have it calibrated. The Z5 has more raw power with black levels if you can find the sweet spots.


6) Realism: Z5 wins


A few more weaknesses of the Mitsubishi compared to the Z5:


The Mitsubishi crushed whites and made snowy scenes too shiny and glowing. The Z5 had none of these problems with snow, clouds, etc... Initially, I thought the black levels of the Mits were slightly better, but I was dead wrong once I figured out all the Z5 settings, wow what a difference a few tweaks make with the Z5 and black levels.


The main problem I had with the Mitsubishi was eye strain and a weird unnatural look to movement. With the Z5, the movement is "CRT good". I kid you not, I have never seen any LCD technology look this smooth with movement. It beat the Sony RPTV I saw at the stores. It is also comparable (as far as my eyes can tell) to my 4 millisecond LCD computer monitor, and this amazes me. Forget ghosting, I saw none, Forget SDE, I had to be so close to the screen it was a joke. Forget pixelated clouds, the Z5 has none of this.


When I walked away after watching a movie on the Mits, it took my eyes like 3 hours to regain focus in real life. I had some minor eye strain with the Z5, but it was a different type, and it was at least half of the severity of the Mits. I would also say for some reason the Mits looked better with SDTV, and I believe this was due to the fact that it is not as sharp, so it did not show-off the defects in the resolution as the Z5 did. The Z5 being less smooth and more clear tends to accentuate the SDTV issues, but SDTV did not look great on either projector, so please do not use this as a reason to buy one over the other.

My comparison setup:


1) Scientifica Atlanta 8300 DVR on Time Warner HD

2) Watched HBO HD, Discovery HD, etc...

3) Played regular DVD's.

4) Saw Star Wars Episode III in HD on both projectors


Please feel free to ask any questions you have related to how the 2 compared that I did not cover.


Thanks.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
Great Coderguy, We appreciate any and all comparisons and opinions.


I assume you are keeping the Sanyo or will you try something else?


If I remember right, the Professional reviews of the Z5 said it benefited from having it's colors calibrated - hopefully this will help.


Question: If you had gotten the Z5 first, what would your impression of it have been? - would you have commented on the lack of blacks or color pops, or is it only noticeable now because you've had the other projector?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
BasementJack:

The calibration is tough on the Z5, but I got it looking very good now, and I am sure there is more I can do. The Z5 has plenty of POP in most scenes, but I just notice the Mits has slightly better pop on closeups. If I had seen the Z5 first, I don't think I would have felt any need to see the Mitsubishi and therefore ever return the Z5. I am definitely keeping the Z5.


The color pop really varies with the source as well. One thing that might surprise you is how well the Z5 handles lighting conditions, such as HD Music channel where they are on stage and lights are flashing. I see no vertical banding here, and I even saw pixelated banding on DLP sets sometimes with this kind of source material, due to the stark lighting colors and contrast. However, the Z5 handles "stage lighting and effects" incrediblly well. For some reason, the color pop on the HD music channel is really good for the Z5. I need to view more sources before writing off the Z5's color pop. Don't get me wrong, it definitely has some pop to the image, but the Mits kind of over-pops in a way, which can be good for some things, but bad for others. The Z5 is so much easier on the eyes, no comparison here for certain.


The Z5 looks as good as I had hoped, better really. I would not want to go back to the Mits, no way. The motion was too choppy looking on the Mits, the backgrounds too cartoonish looking, the whites were crushed, and the main problem was it did not appear as "focused" as the Z5. I will definitely sacrifice a little color pop and stay with the Z5, no comparison really. A better screen may also help with the Z5, and calibration as well.


Also, one thing worth mentioning is I am using a mediocre Apollo 1.0 gain matte screen, I bet because the Mitsubishi had a stronger lamp is part of the color pop difference. Although, Mitsubishi has always been known for making stuff with good color pop and accurate colors.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One other thing:


Don't let the black levels of the Z5 scare you, in 2 hours of viewing I think I only saw 3-5 minutes worth of scenes where I thought, well the blacks could be better. The blacks are really excellent or good most of the time, but occassionally when stark brightness exsists on one side with darkness on the other, you can see the blacks suffer, it didn't bother me though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,477 Posts
Can you tell us what kind of calibration you did? AVIA, DVE etc? If you are getting blown whites then it wasn't calibrated properly. Did you make sure to turn the Mists overscan to 100% from its default as that can make the picture look blurry and less focussed. It seems strange that your opinions are the exact opposite of most reviews. Most reviews have the sanyo being incredibly sharp and the Mits more film like.


For example look at these two closeups in this review
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manu...agequality.asp


The Sanyo here
http://www.projectorreviews.com/imag...klaceLarge.jpg


is visible sharper than the Optoma HD70 here (which is comparable with the Mits)
http://www.projectorreviews.com/imag...klaceLarge.jpg


This picture also show the evident screen door in the z5 and lack of smoothness compared to the HD70
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You're comparing the image too close up. The mitsubishi was at 100% overscan and 16:9 mode. I calibrated it with my own eye, but the whites glowing is a problem with many DLP sets. I see the same thing on Mitsubishi and Samsung RPTV's, even a professionally calibrated one, which I have seen before.


LCOS and LCD are superior in my opinion in every way except color punch.


You can't look at pictures taken by cameras and judge them. The cameras can accentuate things that are not visible in person, especially SDE. Plenty of reviews also noticed lack of detail in the whites, glossy whites, and glowing whites with the Mitsu 1000. Most reviews also agreed that the Z5 produced a better image for cinematic viewing than either the Mitsu 1000 or the Panasonic AE100.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts
coderguy,

looks like you found your PJ. Those glowing whites you speak of from many digital broadcasts find their way even on my HD CRT TV. White uniforms in football games are especially telling. Much of that has to do with the cameras, but that's another story all together. It's actually normal to see whites 'blown out' in some broadcasts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm not talking about "blown out" whites. I am speaking of whites that are overly glowing and loose detail. It's not a problem with the signal, it's a known problem with many DLP sets.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
coderguy,


I'm interested in these glowing whites as a "non-disputable weakness." Can you offer a link to document this "known problem" with DLP that I've somehow missed until your review? Could your relatively small 70" screen be exacerbating the problem?


Thanks!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
I would be intrested in this non-disputed glowing whites on DLP information as well. I have never seen this writen either.

Do you have any links, or where we can read this?

Thanks
 

· Registered
Joined
·
849 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by S L O T H /forum/post/0


great. Just when I thought I found my projector...

Don't take anything you read on any forum as gospel. The current review is one persons opinion that I do not share after spending time with the HD 1000 and the HD 70. The "blown out whites" are a function of not calibrating the projector properly. You can get a very film-like image with either of the above projectors. The BC tuning has a lot to do with the whites and how they are displayed.


First I have ever heard about the inherent fallacy of DLP projectors not being able to properly display whites. I too, would like to see a professional reference as to where this is coming from.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by S L O T H /forum/post/0


great. Just when I thought I found my projector...

You can't make a decision based just on this review. His situation is unique to him. He has a professed aversion to DLP. So, LCD and the Z5 are better for him. You'll have to do your own comparisons to know what works best for you.


Each technology has its own unique set of issues. Each projector will manifest them to a more or less extent. There is no perfect PJ for everyone. You just have to pick the one you can live with the best.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM /forum/post/0


You can't make a decision based just on this review. His situation is unique to him.

Sorry to ruin people's parties with the HD1000, that was not my intent. I completely agree with the statement above. However, it is hard for some people to make a decision since they cannot see the two as I was able to. My advice is to go to the store and look at a DLP TV, they exhibit many of the same issues that I had with the Mits projector. He is correct that I had issues with DLP. Go to Best Buy and go watch a DLP set for 20-30 minutes. One warning though, I had only mild issues with the DLP RPTV's, but the projector seemed to exagerrate the DLP issues. I never saw a rainbow on any of the new DLP TV's, but I did see a couple rainbow flashes on the 1000, as well as the focus problems. I do not think I had the 1000 perfectly calibrated, I'm sure I didn't. But I have seen enough DLP TV's in my life to know you can only calibrate around DLP issues so much, the issues are still there.


When I got the Z5, I expected to see major weaknesses of LCD just as I did with DLP, but I just don't see it. LCD does have its own issues, but I think as long as you are at least 1.5x to 1.75x the screen width away, then you won't see them. I am a big fan of scenery, and the Mits just didn't do it for me with background shots. If you are using it for sports or star wars type movies, the Mits is fine as long as DLP issues do not bother your eyes. It's not the image quality alone that killed the Mits for me, it was the eye-strain and background focus issue, as well as everything else in combination. The clarity of the Z5 over the Mits 1000 isn't really just an opinion, because the reviews at both projector central and projectorreviews.com both concur with this. I completly agree with the reviews that the Z5 is in a totally different class when it comes to clarity over the Mits DLP projectors.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manu...LVZ5/index.asp



After futher calibrating the Z5, I was able to acheive muich better black levels , and the color pop really got much much better on HD channels. Wow, the color pop is much closer to the Mits now! OMG, the Z5 black levels were amazing on a Discovery HD space scene with a shot of the earth overhead! They blew the Mits 1000 away in this scenario. I have gotten the Z5 adjusted now to where it now beats the black levels of what I saw on the Mits 1000 almost every time.


The Z5 is a beast for sure, it is very hard to get it just right. The PQ just jumped 2 more notches after spending more time with it, and I am now happy with the color POP of the Z5, it is only BARELY a notch or so below the Mits 1000. Before you yell at me and tell me I didn't do the same treatment with the Mits HD1000, actually I spent 4 hours straight trying all kinds of tweaks on the 1000 from stuff I read in threads, but I had no luck "calibrating" the DLP weaknesses out of the picture unless I sacrificed too much PQ in other ways. The Z5 is in another class, IMHO. Don't forget:The 1000U is a $900 projector, the Sanyo is a $1450 projector (even after the rebate). I think it shows in features and image quality as well.


Again, I don't see these LCD weaknesses that I saw in other LCD TV's, such as pixelation in diaganol lines (wavy flags for instance). I don't see SDE unless I'm too close. I did see some vertical banding in an underwater scene once when the sun was shining through a compeltely black set, but I still could barely see it and this is the only time I saw it. I have seen MORE vertical banding in almost every other LCD TV at the stores when compared to the Z5. The vertical banding on the Z5 is barely barely ever visible. I was watching HD Basketball and things were moving so fast, and the Z5 handled it beautifully with no funny diagonals, pixelation, or blurring. I was again amazed at the Z5's ability to handle fast motion!


Let me just emphasize that I have seen many LCD TV's and LCD RPTV's, and the technology in this Z5 is right up there with the best, this is what amazes me. It has very few of the "old-school" LCD issues, such as the pixelating and blurred movement problems. I love this freaking Z5.


Let me correct my statement about "glowing whites" being non-disputed. Actually it is a problem I see in MOST DLP set and many reviews have spoken of it as well. Yes it can be reduced with proper calibration at the cost of contrast. However, not all DLP TV's exhibit this symptom as bad. Read the projector central review of HD3000, even without the white segment he still had the "glowing whites" issue. Read the CNET review of the Samsung DLP RPTV, another glowing whites issue.


I never said I had the 1000 calibrated perfectly, but I am technical enough to know how to adjust things. The 1000 was very easy to adjust, the controls were intuitive. Even dropping contrast and brightness to the minimal amount of viewing, the whites still glowed some on the HD1000 and were crushed. This is just my opinion, but it is also backed by all the major reviews of this projector. I do not think this will bother most people. The glowing whites are not the reason I did not go with the Mits.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson /forum/post/0


Did you turn Brilliant color off?

I turned contrast, brightness, brilliant color off, and I even made the picture somewhat dim and still saw crushed whites. People can keep asking, did I try this did I try that, but I printed all the 1000 tweak threads before I even started adjusting the 1000. I tried all the recommendations, again --- IMHO the Z5 is in a different class entirely.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/0


Sorry to ruin people's parties with the HD1000, that was not my intent. I completely agree with the statement above. However, it is hard for some people to make a decision since they cannot see the two as I was able to.

I really appreciate all your feedback on these projectors. For those still shopping, these type of comparisons are very helpful. My only suggestion is that you should be more aware that the majority of people really do not suffer DLP issues the way you do. You are clearly sensitive to the technology. Like me, others are not at all sensitive. The issues that were big for you likely won't matter to others.


I just purchased my 1000u 1 week ago. I love it. I know that it's not the greatest projector available too. However, I'm coming from the Infocus SP4805 and it's a major improvement for me (SD DVD is much the same but HDTV and Xbox360 are dramatically enhanced). The Z5 was actually my 1st choice. I was completely set to buy it and try an LCD projector. I have a Sony rear projection LCD set in the bedroom that I love. I assumed that I would be pleased with LCD front projection as well. Plus, the placement flexibility and input options made it really stand out.


Like most people, I couldn't view projectors in person, I had to rely on my own research. When it came right down to it, Sanyo scared me off with their quality control and warranty issues. Plus, my room is only about 90%-95% light controlled. I was worried the Z5 might not be quite bright enough. It probably would have been.


I'm sure I would have been very happy with the Z5 assuming I did not get the lemon many others have been getting with panel issues (orange lines and blue haze). The 1000u (like most other DLP units) provides an excellent image with great colors if you are not DLP sensitive. Again, most people are not DLP sensitive. Thus, I think it's a bit misleading to those still shopping. Your DLP issues most likely won't affect them. However, it's good that they be informed regarding what might occur.


Thanks again for your comparisons. Please post some shots of your setup if you can. I always enjoy seeing other peoples setup.
 
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top