AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As chance would have it, my wife (to be) walked in the room while I was checking out the new LT150.


"Wow, that looks pretty good for such a little thing", She immediately said as she sat down next to me.


I agreed.


"It's not nearly as bright as the other one, though." (The other one is a JVC G11). "Plus, you can see the lines"


"The lines? What lines", I asked, thinking that she was talking about the screen door effect, which I couldn't see at all from our seated position.


"The lines in the picture. Look at the top of the stick." (The stick is the walking stick from A Bug's Life, when he was flying through the air to Ant Island).


"See how the diagonal lines on the stick are in sections? They're not as smooth as the Dilla or something.". Ah. Not screen door. Jaggies. It's just a lower resolution, but she is quite the videophile. I could barely see it. Plus, we were still running the D-ILA resolution of 1360x768 instead of native resolution (1024x768), so some improvement could have been made there.


"What about the colors?", I asked, "How do you like the overall picture quality when you are not looking for artifacts?"


"The colors seem accurate, but just not as powerful. When the butterfly opens up her wings on the other projector, you just about have a heart attack. This one looks good, but it doesn't take your breath away with the vividness, especially on the butterfly."


That is true. That butterfly on A Bug's Life gets me everytime. When the old guy says, "My Ticker" and grabs his heart, I do, too! It's breathtaking. It was just part of the picture on the LT150. I don't know why this is, yet. Maybe brightness? Maybe contrast? Maybe saturation? Dunno yet.


"You know what's funny?", she continued, "If this was our first projector, I would absolutely love it and would be totally proud of it."


Again, I agreed.


Special thanks to my wife for doing this mini-review for me. She summed it up perfectly, and I have little to add until I get the objective specs measured.


The LT150 seems to be a fantastic little projector, and it is truly an unbeatable bargain for the price. To pit it against a calibrated D-ILA was a little unfair for my wife ( http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ), and as she said, if we didn't have anything to directly compare it to (using a title we are very familiar with), it would have knocked us out.


I have much more that I want to do with it, but wanted to share (our) first impressions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Mark,

I think that pretty much sums up the impressions I had in my own mini-review.


For the price/size it's outstanding.


I thought about your potential calibration attempts today and came to a couple of conclusions.


- It would be great if the color saturation could be improved.

- It would be great if the brightness could be improved.

- It would be great if a more filmlike picture can be obtained.


Screen door, resolution, and rainbows I can live with.

Chivs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,580 Posts
I am very impressed by the way you presented the review, Mark. You could have been a trial attorney. I'm sure you would have given Jim Gemayel a run for his money.


By the way, the better color is almost certainly due to the discrete R,G,B panels in your D-ILA. I noticed a similar result in my 3 chip DLP. There's no substitute for 3 panel color, although single chip DLP's are quite nice considering they're so small and inexpensive.


[This message has been edited by Larry Davis (edited 08-14-2001).]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,322 Posts
"By the way, the better color is almost certainly due to the discrete R,G,B panels in your D-ILA"


I wouldn't rule out brightness as a major factor. I saw Mark Foster's calibrated G10 and an uncal'd G15 he had on hand. While the colors were objectively superior on the G10, subjectively they looked ghostly and grayish and lacking vividness in comparison to the G15.


------------------

Noah


[This message has been edited by noah katz (edited 08-14-2001).]


[This message has been edited by noah katz (edited 08-14-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,014 Posts
Larry,


Actually I was surprised to see Chivs mention saturation as one of the three things he wasn't pleased with.

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but I'm seeing saturation that's considerably better than what we could get out of our DL450's.


I do think the DL450 appeared to have a little smoother image. Both are lacking in color accuracy. The LT150 color is just not natural looking. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what we're seeing. I think I'm seeing a yellowish look but others are seeing it as blue. I use flesh tones more than anything to gage the color and my eyes are not seeing the accurate flesh color I'm used to seeing with either my DILA or CRT's.

But I have confidence that Mark will have the solution to that before the sun comes back up. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Bob


------------------

~ The Sultan of Cheap ~





[This message has been edited by RobertWood (edited 08-14-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,580 Posts
That's an interesting point, Noah. My 3 chip is blazingly bright, yet the colors aren't washed out. In fact, it's the exact opposite. I don't just mean the colors are bright (they are), but they have a strength that is the polar opposite of the single chip units I saw.


Bob,

As we both know, the DL450's Achilles Heel, was the lack of saturated colors. I cured that with my Geforce settings. But without it, the colors were washed out, as I said many times before when I owned my DL450. I don't doubt that the LT150 has good color. Maybe it has great color and maybe I would write a rave review if I saw it. But I think 3 panel units really are in a class by themselves and of course not all 3 panel units are equal either. I think with single chip DLP (and bear in mind there are MANY units I haven't seen), you have to accept the tradeoffs. Every projector has faults and that damned color wheel is #1, in my mind anyway. But you know, looking at that "Film-like sucks" thread, I have to think that quite a few people will never notice these drawbacks, or at least many of them wouldn't. In fact, I would bet money that that is the case.


On the positive side, these little wonder boxes have brought a lot of new people into front projection. Their previous choice was CRT and I think most were probably too intimidated to go that route. Who knows where this will lead, in a few years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Quote:
- It would be great if the color saturation could be improved.

- It would be great if the brightness could be improved.

- It would be great if a more filmlike picture can be obtained.
"Dammit, Chivs, I'm a programmer not a projector doctor!"

Quote:
Screen door, resolution, and rainbows I can live with.
Good. There is little (if anything) that can be done about those. To this little guy's defense, I didn't find any of those things overly objectionable, elthough you could certainly notice all three if you really wanted to try.


Quote:
Mark,

just curious-what does a D-ILA like that one run?

are you using a HTPC ?
The D-ILA runs about 105 degrees fahrenheit, hotter in Arizona and Texas http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif .


Just kidding. The G11 has only a secondary market, as they are not produced any longer. I think that going rate is about 2.5 - 3 times the price of the LT150. I really should be comparing double-stacked or triple-stacked LT150s for a fairer price comparison.


Yes, I am using an HTPC.



Noah, brightness was my hunch, too. I had a G15 here last week and the extra brightness over the G11 definitely added some extra oomph to the picture that was very appealing. I'm not discounting brightness as the primary factor behind the color comments from my wife.


As a side note - the LT150 was projecting onto a Grayhawk screen. You guys with 1.3 gain screens (or higher) might not have as much of a problem there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,322 Posts
My previous post should have said "I saw Mark Foster's calibrated G10 and an uncal'd G15 he had on hand..."


But it looks like my point was understood.


------------------

Noah
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Bob,

Interesting that you referred to color accuracy as opposed to saturation.


Maybe we're seeing the same thing and describing it differently. All I can say is that the colors on the DILA are much more vibrant than on the LT150. If I could sum it up I'd say they looked a little 'thin'.


Chivs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
Try the LT150 with the Da-lite Hipower screen (have I said this before?) Sure its all relative - but this thing in the proper setup is very seductive and how do you beat the price.


For many the LT150 allows them to purchase a HTPC or good scaler, and screen for less than a HT projector by itself! I bet most won't be concerned by what they would consider subtle differences, at best, when the choice is the LT150 setup or back to their TV. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Now let's put the D-ILA up against a properly configured and calibrated Sony G90. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


What I find interesting is that most state that seen by itself it looks fantastic! What more needs to be said since that's how most will use it - they're not videophiles, they just want the best for the money and then to enjoy the view.


Current D-ILAs and DLPs will all be obsolete soon - this isn't about testosterone, but what works now for those on a budget who want value with ease of set up.


Cheers,


Grant

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Grant,

You're right of course. I've tried to be objective in comparisons saying that the value for money is great. Maybe we should stop here and say no more.


However, many people on this forum are tinkerers and like to get under the hood to do some tweaking. If the LT150 can be improved by identifying its weaknesses, and then conjuring up some calibration tweaks like Dilard, then I say that's great.


Chivs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
I agree with Grant, especially about the screen. I'm projecting on matte white wall paint currently, and I notice the dullness in the colors. I'd think this would be worse with a grayhawk. When Tom Lastrange posted screen shots of various fabric samples, the color on the hi-power screen appeared dramatically improved over what was on his wall, and the wall was even a step above the grayhawk. Granted, there is a possibility that a hipower screen will exacerbate some of the projector's other inherent flaws (such as rainbows), but it apparently cures a lot of the problems with color and brightness. This seems pretty clear from the screen shots, and I think it will be more obvious in person. (Can't wait until I get my hi-power).


[This message has been edited by lmo (edited 08-14-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Grant,


There is no denying that the LT150 would win the bargain-of-the-year award. It's a lot of performance for the buck.


Still, in 3 months when I have to decide which one to sell...the LT150 will be the one to go. Even though I could probably get 3x as much for the D-ILA, there is something about the picture that I can't give up.


Am I over-paying for being so picky? Definitely. Could I be even more so? Of course. Reference your G90 comment...one of the finest images available to the general consumer today. Is it worth an extra $25,000 over the D-ILA price? That is a question that can only be answered by each owner. Personally, I would absolutely LOVE a G90, if I had a way to install it properly and afford it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
At the risk of being busted by our hosts for on-line gambling, I propose we start a betting pool on how long it takes Mark to get wife-to-be to go for a G20.


"Gee honey, this is so much brighter than our clunky old G11"


"You're right dear and it's not that much more money."


"Sweety, I think we should get one, don't you?"


"Well (pretending reluctance while doing internal handsprings) I suppose so."


Only problem with my idea is we might not be able to get the betting pool going before Mark pulls this caper off!

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,720 Posts
In regards to the vivid colors on the D-ILA, it's not the

brightness of the D-ILA - but the color temperature.


The hotter the light source, the higher and broader the

Planckian distribution of light intensity versus frequency.


The hotter color temperature means the D-ILA has more

frequencies of light at the blue end, and a better, broader

distribution all round.


The hotter color temperature of the D-ILA is due to the

fact that it uses a Xenon arc lamp [ same technology as the

lamphouses in your local commercial theater ].


Although D-ILA owners have headaches due to the noise and

heat emanating from the fans that cool the arc lamp - the

saturated colors due to the high color temperature of the

lamp is one of the payoffs.


Dr. Gregory Greenman

Physicist
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
You know...I'm just waiting for the QXGA DILA in a couple of years to finally put that G-90 dinosaur to rest. But that's just me http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


There's always a price to pay for high quality. Cheap pretty much almost always equals low quality. I don't doubt that the LT150 offered at the price it was offered might have skewed this scale a bit. But it still remains a one-chip DLP with all its defects we've known to be there for years. These projectors are just too inherently deficient in a lot of ways, and cannot be improved much by way of tinkering to a level that satisfies my standard of quality. But that's just my opinion. Of course, I too was satisfied once many years ago when I thought my lowly VGA Sharpvision was the bomb and all I'd ever possibly need.


There's just a price to pay for quality in this hobby. Much like you do when you decide it's unbereable for you to continue to listen to music on your $999 stereo system and the minimun threshold barrier to attain satisfactory level is an entry level Hi-Fidelity system which is likely more than ten times the investment.


Luca



------------------

PICTURES OF MY THEATER
albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1659592&a=12715694&f=0
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top