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Discussion Starter #41
The reason why I wanted patches was for versatility. You dont always have to run data over cat5. Making them all HOT would defeat the purpose if you only need data in 5 locations. I wanted a system that would handle any source I wanted and be able to direct that anywhere in the house I wanted.


I can use the patches for audio, data, video, phone, cams, ir, game controllers, etc. Basically I pick my source, make the appropriate patch cable, and patch it into the location I want. Very simple.


The uses for a setup like mine are virtually unlimited.


.


MILTIMJ, Your right, the wiring is static, but the uses for it are not. if your only interested in a few HOT network drops, then the scenario you described would be perfect for you.


Im just wondering what is going to happen when someone plugs something that generates it own power into your HOT data jack connected to the gig switches :eek:


Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj
My second question, is where the coax amplifier(s) and splitter(s) are for the F-panel..


My amps and splitters are currently hidden on the backside of the rack inside the wire management sleeves. Once I go with Sat, I will probably mount a wallboard behind the rack to hold the multi-switches and etc.


As with the cat5 patches, the video is only patched into the jacks I need service to. I currently run cable tv to 5 locations and fm antenna to 3 locations. Again, any source I like, I can just patch it into the appropriate location.


Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ
I personally prefer patch panels and would never do it any other way.
BINGO. Its the only way for true versatility.


Ronnie
 

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In the past I have used patch panels for the data, but I've punched down my phone wiring to a 66-block. Next time phone will go to patch panel jacks. I wonder about running all the coax to a patch panel, though. I'm thinking there is little to be gained by terminating the RG-6 cables at a panel and then connecting them to splitters, amps, or whatever with short coax patch cables as I'm doing at present. I wonder if that is introducing a loss of signal for very little gain. I've read more than half the trouble calls cable TV techs make are found to be caused by bad connections; why have more than needed. I'm thinking about connecting active runs directly to whatever equipment they need to connect to. Unused runs can just hang there behind the back board.


What do you guys think?
 

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VERRRRY nice! Kudos, dude!


Quick Q-

Where did you buy that Panduit patch panels? I wanna do something like that but am wondering where to buy these things (retail)
 

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I am not sure if the public can buy through Anixter but you could order through any electrical distributor that has an account with Anixter. If you call Anixter they could refer you to someone in your area.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStehman
In the past I have used patch panels for the data, but I've punched down my phone wiring to a 66-block. Next time phone will go to patch panel jacks. I wonder about running all the coax to a patch panel, though. I'm thinking there is little to be gained by terminating the RG-6 cables at a panel and then connecting them to splitters, amps, or whatever with short coax patch cables as I'm doing at present. I wonder if that is introducing a loss of signal for very little gain. I've read more than half the trouble calls cable TV techs make are found to be caused by bad connections; why have more than needed. I'm thinking about connecting active runs directly to whatever equipment they need to connect to. Unused runs can just hang there behind the back board.


What do you guys think?
Using any of the good compression tools it's difficult to terminate coax improperly even if you try. Loss is negligible and is a non-issue. There is really no right way or wrong way here. Ronnie and I are on the same page on this one. A nice pacth panel system is a thing of beauty. You can make a change in 60 seconds just by changing a jumper cable. It gives you complete flexibility. Is it more expensive? Sure. Could you also make the change without a patch panel system? Sure.


I've also heard the argument that a patch panel is one more point of failure. Sure is is. So is a Cat 5 or coax outlet on the wall and indeed there are some dunces that I've actually seen run the cable out of the wall and terminate it and plug it straight into a device. I still prefer a wall plate. The additional point of failure argument is silly. I'm being proactive before someomne mentions that if it hasn't been mentioned already.
 

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I think patch panels are cleaner. Of course, Im a network manager so I'm a little biased. If you have cat5e terminated on both ends (wall port and patch panel) with the T568A standard you know whats on both ends. This gives you the flexability to make patch cords to handle any situation instead of physically changing the wiring on either or both ends and then not knowing what you have behind that cat5 port.


Examples of this would be crossover cables for ethernet, patch cable that splits it to 2 ethernet connections (4 wires each) or 4 phone connections (2 wires each) or leaving it at the standard config if you need gigabit speeds.


Above all, I just think its cleaner. You have nice clean ports on your walls in all your locations and not just cat5 hanging out of the wall correct? Same theory for your hubroom.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStehman
In the past I have used patch panels for the data, but I've punched down my phone wiring to a 66-block. Next time phone will go to patch panel jacks. I wonder about running all the coax to a patch panel, though. I'm thinking there is little to be gained by terminating the RG-6 cables at a panel and then connecting them to splitters, amps, or whatever with short coax patch cables as I'm doing at present. I wonder if that is introducing a loss of signal for very little gain. I've read more than half the trouble calls cable TV techs make are found to be caused by bad connections; why have more than needed. I'm thinking about connecting active runs directly to whatever equipment they need to connect to. Unused runs can just hang there behind the back board.


What do you guys think?
Use high quality connections, crimp and terminate them professionally and you will not have any issues.


Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude
VERRRRY nice! Kudos, dude!


Quick Q-

Where did you buy that Panduit patch panels? I wanna do something like that but am wondering where to buy these things (retail)
Are you referring to the Panduit wire management? I picked up most of my stuff on ebay.


Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD
I think patch panels are cleaner. Of course, Im a network manager so I'm a little biased. If you have cat5e terminated on both ends (wall port and patch panel) with the T568A standard you know whats on both ends. This gives you the flexability to make patch cords to handle any situation instead of physically changing the wiring on either or both ends and then not knowing what you have behind that cat5 port.


Examples of this would be crossover cables for ethernet, patch cable that splits it to 2 ethernet connections (4 wires each) or 4 phone connections (2 wires each) or leaving it at the standard config if you need gigabit speeds.
I agree. I have a buddy that re-wired his playstation controllers to fit into cat5 jacks. He leaves the game cubes in his wiring room and just redirects the controllers and video into whatever room the kids need to play in.


Millions of things you can do with this type of setup. Network and video is a very narrow minded way of using it.


Ronnie
 

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Quote:
and indeed there are some dunces that I've actually seen run the cable out of the wall and terminate it and plug it straight into a device.
Eh, at the risk of killing off what little credibility I have, I do that. I was trying to figure out how to plan this, and my father [PHD in EE] told me not to bother due to the points of failure thing. I now have all these cables coming through a hole in the floor directly into my stuff.


Are you telling me that I shouldn't have done that, and rather use a consolidated patch panel for all the various a/v/pc stuff? [i.e., right now i have 11 speaker cables, 5 RJ45, 4 video, 1 VGA, 1 subwoofer, i'm sure there's more]
 

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IVB,


As long as that works for you great. I was referring mainly to a wall box with a couple of Cat 5's or perhap (2) Cat 5's and (2) RG-6. I just think it's unprofressional to bring the wires out of the wall. In your case I can understand, though yes, personally we always terminate the head end with a patch panel. Usually at a drop point that has a lot of cables we use either a multi-gang in-wall or perhaps a surface mount box if it's inside of a cabinet. Here's an example of a surface mount box that we've used inside of a cabinets that has 12 ports:

http://www.panduit.com/Panduit/image.../NCBXF12IW.jpg


The different jacks (BNC, F, RJ45 etc.) just snap into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Just think about how many of those connections this message went through to post. Think about the internet in general. I dont think you see many wires hanging out of the wall and plugged directly into things at your local ISP's.


;)


Ronnie
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie_jackson
Just think about how many of those connections this message went through to post. Think about the internet in general. I dont think you see many wires hanging out of the wall and plugged directly into things at your local ISP's.


;)
But maybe that's why the Internet is slow sometimes. It's getting caught up in all those extra patches.


;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie_jackson
I agree. I have a buddy that re-wired his playstation controllers to fit into cat5 jacks. He leaves the game cubes in his wiring room and just redirects the controllers and video into whatever room the kids need to play in.


Millions of things you can do with this type of setup. Network and video is a very narrow minded way of using it.


Ronnie
That's genious, and exactly the type of reason that would make sense to me to use them.


Since I use my RJ-45 jacks purely for data and voice, I'm not sure what device I, or someone else that comes to my house, would plug into it that supplies power to that port.


QQQ, you joke about the Internet going down because of connections, but it happens every day. (Okay, maybe just an individual/organization's connection to it) I've seen it first hand, but granted it was/is in a system that completely moves often.


Regarding signal loss and point of failure, I would submit that it's a matter of managing the risk. Yes, it introduces another point of failure by having an additional connection. However, IMO its usefulness overcomes the risk associated with the additional POF and makes it well worth it.


At the same time, I wonder what the cost/benefit ratio is for going the patch panel route. It basically comes down to the amount of change that potentially will be made in the system. All I've really thought about (for the most part) is data, voice, and alarm system/home automation. Once that's installed, it's basically unchanging, so I was thinking the patch panel may be overkill, at least for me. But part of that is because I obviously haven't thought of all the reasons, which is what I am interested in (to justify to myself that a patch panel would be a worthwhile investment). :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ
But maybe that's why the Internet is slow sometimes. It's getting caught up in all those extra patches.


;)
Hmm, mine's never slow.. maybe it's just slow for you since it's going through all those extra patches..


;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ
Nope, I use special Moster Cable gold plated patch panels...they speed up the signal.
:D :D :D
 

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Tim, I think it's clear Ronnie needed patching, and he did a really good job. I don't know if you need it, judging by your questions.


We patch regularly in larger homes, yet I still question some patching applications. I've used those 12 port patch jacks before, and I shy away from them now. I am a firm believer that more disconnects in the path increase risk, so I don't patch unless the benefit (like in Ronnie's case) outwieghs the risk.


When we wire a larger home and the cabling package has different colored CAT5's for different systems and such, I'd likely just bundle my Ethernet cables together and crimp on RJ45's. But, if I have a 24 port switch, and 30 drops... I'm patching.


Patching a CATV system in a smaller home? Patching doesn't make sense, unless you have a bunch of coax running everywhere for different systems.


Patching speaker cable? I'm sorry, but I've seen the photos here on AVS of the guys who patch many channels on double gang plates with 5 way posts, and I ask myself why. Why not a mud ring, nice plate with a hole in it, and some nylon mesh to cover the bundle, ran all the way into the rack? Looks nice.


Plus, if you want your internet to speed up, you go fully wireless, so those cheap non Monster copper wires don't slow it down. Plug your router into a cell phone.
 
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