[steven1110]

I'm looking to get a new receiver and possibly amp to go with a new set of Ascend Towers. I currently have a Denon 1910 receiver that I use for 7.1 duty and listen to about 65% movies/TV and 35% music. I'm trying to keep it around $1k


I listened to a friend's NAD receiver (don't know which) and I really liked what I heard so I started looking into NAD receivers. But after researching, I found that the best I could do was a 747/748 or if I stretched the budget a bit, a used 775HD. But as you know, NAD puts the money into the amp section and leaves out the bells and whistles that the "budget" market crams into their receivers. While I don't use most of the extra features, I do feel that I would miss some of them, specifically Audessey, Dynamic Volume, & PLIIZ.


To the point, I'm wanting to get your opinions on which route I should go.

1) $1k Denon receiver

2) $500 Denon receiver and add an NAD amp. It will put me over budget slightly.

3) Just get the 747/748 or used 775HD NAD amp


Also, any other suggestions are welcome.

 

[jdsmoothie]

Keep in mind that the lowest level Denon models with preouts for an external amp would be the 33XX series.

 

[steven1110]

If I go that route, I'm hoping I can find a 3311 on closeout. $500 may be optimistic though.

 

[guitaraficionado]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie /forum/post/20897010


Keep in mind that the lowest level Denon models with preouts for an external amp would be the 33XX series.

Onkyo has a pre-out AVR for about half the price and similar features, though no AirPlay.

 

[guitaraficionado]

I personally have been disappointed with my Denon's AVR sound quality on 2-channel music versus my NAD. So I'd vote for the pre/NAD combo.

 

[htcritic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraficionado /forum/post/20897128


I personally have been disappointed with my Denon's AVR sound quality on 2-channel music versus my NAD. So I'd vote for the pre/NAD combo.

So. Why do you believe there is an audible sq difference between your Denon and the NAD. What speakers are you using? What size room are you attempting to fill?

 

[guitaraficionado]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic /forum/post/20897281


So. Why do you believe there is an audible sq difference between your Denon and the NAD. What speakers are you using? What size room are you attempting to fill?

Because my ears and SPL meter tell me so.

Speakers are B&W 600 series, smaller room (12x12).

 

[rick240]



Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1110 /forum/post/20897047


If I go that route, I'm hoping I can find a 3311 on closeout. $500 may be optimistic though.

Act fast, demo for $500 , most closeouts are about $900 now (worth it). Get this and decide later if you need an amp.

 

[mjpearce023]

You really can't tell anything about an amp/receiver by listening to someone else's setup. You are hearing his speakers and room a lot more than you are hearing the nad. You may or may not get any results for all the money it will cost to upgrade. I have a 3311 and it's a nice receiver so if you upgrade to it, I would try it with no amp. My room is about the same size as yours (13 x 11) and the Denon has no problems powering my setup. My Paradigms may be easier to drive but I would still try out the Denon with no amp first, especially if you are using a subwoofer. I got mine for 530 shipped from Amazon Warehouse Deals. It was an open box but I couldn't tell as it looked brand new. They went up 200 after I got mine so I'm not sure when they will go on sale again. The open box at Amazon or the demo at Electronics Expo will both come with the manufacturer warranty.

 

[htcritic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraficionado /forum/post/20897299


Because my ears and SPL meter tell me so.

Speakers are B&W 600 series, smaller room (12x12).

So, you have an spl meter that tells you the difference in sq from one receiver to another? I thought that all spl meters did (at least mine) was measure loudness. You do realize that most everyone perceives something that is louder as sounding better? Level matched I'd be surprised to hear that you could consistantly tell the difference.

 

[htcritic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 /forum/post/20897405


You really can't tell anything about an amp/receiver by listening to someone else's setup. You are hearing his speakers and room a lot more than you are hearing the nad. You may or may not get any results for all the money it will cost to upgrade. I have a 3311 and it's a nice receiver so if you upgrade to it, I would try it with no amp. My room is about the same size as yours (13 x 11) and the Denon has no problems powering my setup. My Paradigms may be easier to drive but I would still try out the Denon with no amp first, especially if you are using a subwoofer. I got mine for 530 shipped from Amazon Warehouse Deals. It was an open box but I couldn't tell as it looked brand new. They went up 200 after I got mine so I'm not sure when they will go on sale again. The open box at Amazon or the demo at Electronics Expo will both come with the manufacturer warranty.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[htcritic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraficionado /forum/post/20897598


Condescension will get you nowhere. Of course I meant level matching -- but assumed you would understand. But instead you're out to prove your preconceptions.

No. Actually I'm not. You posted advice that a receiver and amp delivered better sq than a receiver. I asked you what you based that advice on and you answered your SPL meter. I was being sarcastic not condescending. And also pointing out to the OP that he should not just take your advice about audible sq differences between a Denon receiver and that same receiver powered by an amp. Especially in the very small rooms both of you are filling. I have no doubt you heard a difference. What I question is why. I suspect it's a level mismatch which, when accounted for, would leave no audible sq differences at all.


BTW, what guitars do you have?

 

[guitaraficionado]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic /forum/post/20897643


No. Actually I'm not. You posted advice that a receiver and amp delivered better sq than a receiver. I asked you what you based that advice on and you answered your SPL meter. I was being sarcastic not condescending. And also pointing out to the OP that he should not just take your advice about audible sq differences between a Denon receiver and that same receiver powered by an amp. Especially in the very small rooms both of you are filling. I have no doubt you heard a difference. What I question is why. I suspect it's a level mismatch which, when accounted for, would leave no audible sq differences at all.


BTW, what guitars do you have?

Fair enough, that's certainly a valid question and I get that you don't think amplifiers/processors should sound different when level matched. It's just that they do sound different to my ears.


I neglected my setup information here initially, because I've been discussing it lately again and again in other threads.


Curious, why do think a smaller room would lessen differences in sound quality? I hadn't considered this possibility.

 

[mjpearce023]



Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraficionado /forum/post/20897717


Curious, why do think a smaller room would lessen differences in sound quality? I hadn't considered this possibility.

Because it takes less power to fill up a small room with sound than it does a big room. In turn, a receiver will be less likely to start clipping in a small room so it would be hard to tell a difference when adding an amp. In a big room there is more chance of clipping so therefore more chance you will hear a difference adding an amp.

 

[guitaraficionado]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 /forum/post/20897784


Because it takes less power to fill up a small room with sound than it does a big room. In turn, a receiver will be less likely to start clipping in a small room so it would be hard to tell a difference when adding an amp. In a big room there is more chance of clipping so therefore more chance you will hear a difference adding an amp.

True. I was thinking of sound differences more subtle than clipping distortion.

 

[phantom52]

No Audyssey but this combo would serve you very well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115284

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAT955


Watch for the price of that AVR on Saturday. These two should keep you at or very close to your budget.

 

[htcritic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 /forum/post/20897784


Because it takes less power to fill up a small room with sound than it does a big room. In turn, a receiver will be less likely to start clipping in a small room so it would be hard to tell a difference when adding an amp. In a big room there is more chance of clipping so therefore more chance you will hear a difference adding an amp.

What he said.

Not to start another, never ending, argument thread, but there is very little evidence to suggest that there are any audible sq differences between receivers, amps, DACS, etc, as long as they are being operated within their specifications. Hard to drive speakers, large rooms, loud listening levels, all require the proper amplification, but beyond that (other than EQ) there is really no audible SQ differences between most of today's receivers. Adding an amplifier to a system as small as being described here would add nothing. But they are cool to own! I've owned many including NAD. Did I believe I heard subtle sq differences? Yep. Was I ever able to pick between them in an unsighted test where all components were level matched? Nope. Have I participated in ABX tests? Yep. Has either myself or any of my friends over the last few decades ever been able to consistantly choose? Nope.


BTW I play a Gibson 56 reissue Les Paul with P90 pickups.

 

[guitaraficionado]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic /forum/post/20898054


What he said.

Not to start another, never ending, argument thread, but there is very little evidence to suggest that there are any audible sq differences between receivers, amps, DACS, etc, as long as they are being operated within their specifications.

That opinion will save you a lot of money for sure. Unfortunately the research and evidence is inconclusive on both sides of your argument. Each camp likes to say "Prove it!" but neither can.


It comes down to whether you feel we can fully describe the listening experience with measurements and specifications. I say there's more to it and hence that's how I reason why so many insist they hear differences between receivers, amps, DACs, etc.


And I hope you'd at least concur that tube amps operated within their specs can sound quite different from solid state... But then we can measure those differences.

 

[bommai]

I bought a NAD T763 on craigslist for $250 and it works great. It is a 6.1 receiver with no HDMI, but has 7.1 analog input. It also can be used as an amp since it has external jumpers between its pre-amp section and amp section. Just take the jumpers out and put your pre-amp output into the main-in inputs. Voila, the T763 becomes just a power amp.


I now have a T775HD receiver that I got on closeout at a good price. Works great. I agree with you - for music especially NAD is way better than Denon, etc. I just love to sit an listen to music with my current setup.

 

[bommai]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic /forum/post/20897281


So. Why do you believe there is an audible sq difference between your Denon and the NAD. What speakers are you using? What size room are you attempting to fill?

I have owned Denon, Onkyo, HK and NAD. With the same set of speakers, I can clearly make out the differences between the receivers. I love the sound of NAD and then HK. Onkyo and Denon come dead last. Just my opinion.