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Nathan's Theater in Search of...

41214 Views 204 Replies 31 Participants Last post by  nathan_h, 
nathan_h
35
Rest In Peace or, I hope your new owners appreciate you like I did....


Main Stage:


The Rest of the Room:




This diagram and the 3d model are a bit out of date. But close.

Gear
  • PROJECTOR: JVC RS500 calibrated by Chad B with custom curves for HDR, souped up with an HDFury Vertex for automation and to enable Dolby Vision. It is fed by Premium Certified HDMI cables from MonoPrice.
    (previously a Sony VPLHW55ES briefly, a JVC RS20 for a few years, a Sony Pearl for a few years, and a Sanyo LCD which was 720p, years before this room existed)*

    SPEAKERS:
  • Left, Center and Right: Triad InRoom Bronze LCR
    (previously Vandersteen, Thiel, Magnepan, Paradigm, Mackie, Usher, B&W, Triad Gold LCR, Definitive Technology, Revel, JBL, Emotiva, Klipsch, and others for long term auditions)
  • Surround duties: Triad In Wall Bronze LCR (sides & back).
    (Previously Thiel, Paradigm, Mackie.)
  • Overhead: Triad In Ceiling Sealed Silver Rounds. (Currently selling these since I want something smaller to surface mount.)
  • Two mid-wall placed Subs: Rythmik F15HP, one placed in the center of the front wall and one placed in the center of the rear wall
    (previously four corner placed Rythmik subs, a single Thiel sub, a single JL Audio, dual HSU, dual Triad, previous EQ provided by SVS AS EQ1, Anti-Mode 8033 Cinema EQ, miniDSP, Audyssey)

    SCREEN:
  • Seymour EN4K acoustic screen (8 feet wide, not diag) 2.37:1
    (previously a Stewart Ultramatte 200, a Stewart FireHawk, a Dalite)

    AUDIO:
  • Anthem MRX720 receiver
    (previously Marantz SR6010, Yamaha Aventage 1010, Denon 4311, Onkyo pre-pro, Emotiva, Nuforce pre-pro, etc; and previous external amplification via a Mark Levinson/Madrigal/Proceed AMP3, a Parasound 5 channel amp, and a multi-channel Adcom amp)
  • Amps for Atmos -- currently using
    • a class A/B AudioSource and
    • a class D amp from Paradigm/Anthem
  • Acoustic Treatment: combination of 50/50 absorption/diffusion panels mostly shown in the diagrams but also including the ceiling which not shown in diagrams (GIK and DIY)

    SOURCES:
  • Sony UBP-X800 UHD Blu-Ray Plater, Apple TV gen 5 aka ATV4K, media server
    (previously too many to list)

    AUTOMATION/CONTROL:
  • Harmony Hub and Smart Control remote

*Projector setup for the JVC RS4/5/600. ( With custom HDR curves for JVC's and enabling of Dolby Vision.)
Room Technology Electronics Electronic device Audio equipment
Home Property House Building Shed
Property Room Wall Building Basement
Wall Property Room Floor Ceiling
Wire Floor Hardwood Wood flooring Cable
Wall Ceiling Room Basement Garage
Wall Floor Room Basement Wood
Wall Room Property Wood Building
Door Room Glass Window
Property Wall Room Door House
Room Floor Wall Tile Flooring
Wall Floor Construction Room Basement
Floor Property Room Furniture Tile
Photography Fisheye lens Room Lens
Fisheye lens Photography Personal protective equipment
Room Property Interior design Furniture Building

















----

KEY LESSONS LEARNED:

1) SIX FEET is the minimum depth of a riser. I made mine five feet and it's workable but the back row cannot recline! Okay, so they wouldn't really want to, from a line of sight perspective, but they might want to raise their feet. With five feet of space, they can't. (And seven inches height is really not quite enough for them.)

2) The DOOR should go in the front of the room, if space is tight. There is a whole "dead space" section between the screen and the first row. This is the PERFECT place to have a doorway for entry/exit. Putting the door where I did, next to the seating, means you are limited in seating/walking distance right in the spot where space is at a premium. It has been annoying enough that I have though about adding a door or re-orienting the whole room (but wiring locations and the riser make that a huge task).

3) HVAC is more important to comfort than chairs or anything else in the room. I should have used a mini Split system from the start, instead of trying to rely on other methods.


----


SUMMARY OF THE PROJECT BEGINS HERE (and completes in the next post)


This is how it started. A detached garage on a 1920's house. There was no way we were going to drive a modern car to the back of the lot and into this cramped garage on a daily basis. On the other hand, it was perfectly isolated by a very large infinite air space from the rest of the living space -- and the neighbors!



It started with some sketches in the space...






Yank out the cabinets, and (important!) had the old concrete slab replaced.

ANOTHER LESSON LEARNED #1 : A traditional garage concrete floor is sloped for run off. YOU DONT WANT THAT in a home theater (or, really, any domestic room). But I wasn't smart enough to know that's how they would pour the floor, so I wasn't smart enough to tell them not to.

In the end, the building itself was so unsquare (80+ years of settling will do that) that it wasn't a complete disaster since everything had to be custom measured and plumb was never the same as what gravity wanted, but it was a miss, and a lesson learned --

-- and it would have made the whole "room within a room" easier to keep level, plumb and square.


The good news is that redwood lasts a long time so things were structurally okay -- as in not falling over or down or rotting.

But the electrical was not ideal (it would all have to be replaced). There were plants growing through one wall, due a neighbor's untended vines. There was some nasty insulation, ravaged by time and rodents. Etc. Etc.

Drywall out, and then some framing work. Get by with a little help from friends in these situations....

Killed one of the garage doors and made it a people door.






The general concept was "a room within a room".

It got a little complicated in some places, notably with the cross beams in the rafters of the garage. If we had simply made the roof lower than them, we would have had a room that was under 7 feet in height. NO GOOD.

So we went with a modified concept, where we built around them -- and the end result was that it looks like beams running through the roof of the room. Not bad. Rather proud of that solution, in fact.

Less clearly a win: Instead of just using the max space in the garage, which would have resulted in an essentially square room about 16' on each side, we carved out a space about 12' x 16' to get some rectangular-ness to the space -- thinking it would help with acoustics, and that the space outside the theater space would be a nice ante-rooom -- at first for a little exercise space, and the gear, and later (much later) for a lobby. I call this not clearly a win because I do feel a little space challenged into the room.

Not a win at all: The internal door. Well, the position is not too bad. But I made two follow on mistakes: I did not put the screen wall near the door -- which means the door is near the seats -- which means we that valuable space that could have been used for seats was needed for walking space. And the other mistake with the door: It opens INTO the theater space. Doh! The other direction, while non standard perhaps, would be far more space friendly inside it.

(Follow on lesson learned from earlier: The sloped nature of the concrete slab meant that the door could NOT be hung plumb because it would run into the sloped floor. Ugh! Of course, having it open the other direction would have solved that, too.)

Did I mention this was a dumb way to do the doors. Sure they don't collide and I can move in and out large things. But..... the theater door should open OUT into the foyer.







Some more framing. And other stuff, including painting the old walls (exterior walls) with primer, adding spray foam to seal things, using flashing vapor barrier under the framing, padding places where metal met metal (like the simpson strong ties), etc.

The spray foam was overkill. Later, I added ventilation -- both between the room and foyer and foyer and outdoors. Spray foam sealant was because I thought I'd need to keep it air tight to be sound tight. Turns out, "convoluted path" was just as effective....





And then those pesky ceiling beams. You can see where I would have liked to have put the ceiling.

And that I ran the main ceiling joists at that level.

I need to dig up the photos of what ACTUALLY worked -- to build something almost "around" the old structure, and not touch the new one at all. The contractor I hired to teach me framing and do a significant amount of the heaving lifting and work at this stage thought I was CRAZY at first, but gradually understood to the point where he has great ideas about how to achieve the decoupled goals in this odd situation.

You may wonder why I bothered to try to do it this way, given that I wasn't attached to a living space or sleeping space nor sharing a wall with a neighbor. But my goal was isolation from the outside, in addition to keeping sound from escaping. It mostly worked: Even at full tilt, if you are outside the garage, it just sounds like something faint in the distance. And when inside, if you have nothing playing, you'll not hear the outside world unless something is running a combustion engine very loud and very close.




running wires.

I wanted to achieve a few things:

Future proof as much as possible. So this meant running five or six separate 20amp circuits in the room. That way, I could separate things like the projector from the subwoofer from the space heater from the power recline chair from the electric screen from the lights on a fader from the lights not on a fader from the blah blah blah. No, I didn't plan to have all that stuff in there, but why the not spend an extra 100 bucks to run separate lines from the subpanel in order have options down the road?

I also ran lots of low voltage wire. And I am learning now I should have run even more. I ran drops for 7 locations. In each location I ran thick speaker wire, two coax, one XLR. This means I could run all active speakers in the room. And seven subwoofers. Or all passive speakers. Etc. I ended up using stuff in creative ways, such as I have had a turntable in the room, but I needed to get the line level out from the turntable pre-amp, to the speaker amp in the equipment rack outside the room. Well, there come a couple of XLR drops to the rescue -- balanced turntable audio safely attended to. Or, no matter where a sub should be placed, there's a coax/RCA or XLR output within a few feet.

What else should I have run? Probably twice as much high level speaker cable. It's relatively cheap, and there have been a few times where it would have been interesting to biamp or experiment with ab/ing between speakers, etc. But for the most part, is has worked out well.

There is an "escape valve" in that I have an open attic space above the room, and could run more cables up there and fish them down into the walls without major surgery. But I haven't resorted to that, yet.

And, of course, whenever possible (which was almost everywhere) I ran power and audio in separate places. Typically the power is run around the room laterally, and audio was run in the rafters and then down the wall. That didn't work perfectly with the overhead lights, but I think I managed to have only one 90 degree intersection and that has not proved problematic.

I ran two lighting circuits to two different switches. So far I have just used the can lights with spots in them, and the others remain unused. That's okay. There are also outlets in the ceiling. Definitely one circuit just for the projector. And some near the screen wall -- which would have been useful if I ever wanted a retractable screen -- or moved the projector to another location.

About the projector "circuit". It's actually got a male inlet plug in the equipment area outside the room, that lets me run the projector off a AV grade UPS device. In addition to the obvious benefit of being able to power down the projector nicely if the power to the house goes out, it also regulates the voltage -- which I believe keeps sensitive or finiky gear (read "JVC projector") happier. It may be a placebo.

(Aside: Having the AV grade UPS in there is nice too for firmware updates or not losing recordings on the DVR due to a power hiccup.)

LESSONS LEARNED HERE? Well, for one, run more speaker level wire. Other than that, don't be afraid to terminate! I bought nice face plates etc for the wires, and then told myself "all those extra terminations and connection points are just additional potential points of failure, and might impact the signal a little". What I really should have said is: I'm too lazy to do this part cleanly, now -- and in the future, so I'll forever have slightly ugly wiring....

Well, we'll get to that part of the story, later, as I am embarking on version 2.0 for this room.



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nathan_h
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Summary Continued

And then we started in on the insulation. Didn't go with the pink stuff because I had the impression (probably just marketing) that this stuff was slightly less toxic but the same price. Who knows.

Don't forget the simple things like can lights that can be put up against insulation, etc, otherwise at this stage you are taking a couple days to build boxes around your cans -- no fun.

While there were several earlier milestones (new floor, ripping the old garage apart, framing the build, putting in wires) once the insulation went up, the feeling and sound of the space changed in a dramatic way.


Okay, so you remember those structural beams in the outter structure, the garage, that got in the way of having a nice regular height room?

They turned into good places to run wire.


And frame around them.




Drywall is another big milestone. And putting blue tape on the walls and temporary chairs on the floor really gives you your first taste of the space. Yes, it does not sound right yet, and look right yet, but still, it's a glimpse.

Maybe I took it too far by hooking up some powered monitors! At least I resisted putting the projector in there (NOOOOOO, not among all that construction dust!!!).

If you can, hire an expert for the drywall. Yes, if you are being a stickler, you will have to educate them about how to hang it and how to mud it, for acoustic perfection. But, especially at the mudding stage, an expert is going to get much better results super fast.





And then the paint.

Black seems like the hardcore, perfect choice.

After having lived with it for some time, I am not so sure! I didn't get the ultimate perfect, flat black. I just got the flat black that was easy to get at the local hardware store. So I may not be getting the full effect of a flat black room.

And don't get me wrong, it is very dark!

But I think were I to do things over again, I might do dark gray on the walls, and save black for the ceiling and screen wall -- and trim/panels in black or gray, depending on location.

In fact, in "theater 2.0" (tm) that may be where I go. Not sure yet.

---

ANOTHER LESSON LEARNED: In addition to perhaps not going ALL BLACK throughout the room -- which sort of goes against conventional wisdom for a hardcore space -- I will say I have to agree with another conventional wisdom idea that I did NOT follow: Carpet.

Everyone does wall to wall low pile carpet with the biggest thicket pad under it that they can stand. I figured I would be classy and do a hardwood floor and use area rugs. FAIL. Well, I mean, it has worked and does work but is pretty much a waste and is lost to the eye since I have worked so hard to cover it with area rugs.

I don't know that I will install wall to wall carpet as part of theater 2.0, but if I were starting from scratch on a dedicated room in the future, I would not choose to add hardwood! I would spend the money on good carpeting instead.




While all this is going on inside the theater, outside the theater in the anteroom, the equipment rack was coming together. Yes, could have done the clean and cool thing and gotten a traditional rack from one of the big vendors.

But I didn't. At this point in the process, my budget was getting stretched, and for a fraction of the price of a mid atlantic kind of rack, I could get a double tall wire rack at a kitchen store -- which had great ventilation, adjustable shelves, wheels on the bottom, and fit most gear very well.

Funny to look at this now! HD-DVD, HTPC, a traditional DVD player! Blu-ray didn't exist at the time. My how things have changed.

--

The other end of the anteroom was, for a time, a workout space, with a treadmill facing an old tube TV on the wall. Later it became the DVD and blu-ray library, and storage. (Freakin TUBE TV over the treadmill. Old school.)





And then the money shot.... hanging the screen, hooking up a few speakers and the sub, throwing some panels around to tame the room a little, pulling in some furniture from elsewhere in the house for temp seating.

Okay okay, it's all super ugly! And you can see I was already making notes with painter's tape about where I needed to mask the screen. It was a 10 foot wide 2.35:1 stewart screen and while that seemed really cool for a 12 foot wide room, it was actually too big -- at least, in terms of fitting speakers on that wall, too.

In theater 2.0, I am adding a AT screen, that is 8 feet wide, on a false wall, and I have got the Stewart screen up for sale. Strangely, I guess it must be too big for most other people, too, since no one has bought it yet!

Yes, the eagle eyes among you will note that the projector is the classic Sony Pearl, awesome bang for buck in its day.




Adding the riser was a cool step (no pun intended). You'll notice that the room is built, and the riser it getting added into a fully built room.

You might think this was because it's easier (maybe for me it is, but that's another topic). You may think it was because it was an afterthought (it wasn't). But the real reason is that while I was building a room within a room and the building shares no common walls with anything, I still wanted to seal in the sound and seal out the outside world as much as possible, and building interior pieces into a completed room helped maintain those features of isolation.

Adding all the insulation to the riser helped keep it from becoming a drum.

LESSONS LEARNED: I should have researched how to make the riser into a bass trap. That would have been an almost free (other than effort) nice big bonus! I should have probably made it a bit taller, even though it was already a little close to the ceiling for tall people. And I should have made the riser one foot deeper (minimum) than the four I allowed. Reasons:

1. A basic theater recliner seat needs 5 feet for the user to raise their legs and have at least a foot rest, if not recline fully.
2. It turns out, after much more acoustic theory learning, my front row (head location) should be at 55% of the room for the least standing waves (68% is also an option but then there would have been no second row). For more about why this is, see Anthony Grimani's interviews on HT Geeks. If the back row riser had been another foot in size, my front row would have been in the PERFECT position! Yes, I can pull the front row seats forward, but that's a bit low-rent looking.

Speaking of things looking "low rent": PLEASE excuse the random furniture! I was working with what we had in the house that could be spared









Time to add some acoustic panels from GIK. They guys there were helpful with advice and recommendations.

LESSONS LEARNED: Even though a basic diffuser is twice the price of a absorbing panel, getting a similar amount of wall space covered in each type is ideal. I should have cut back on my absorption factor a bit in order to buy diffusion, even if it meant less overall coverage for while as the budget built back up.

-----


Similar to the current look, though with different surround speakers (side and rear), a different area rug (on a single level), etc.










-

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A few observations. Looks like you have a good handle on what you've got in mind, which is a good starting point. I see you're getting quotes to do some things here, which again, is good, now go to home depot and do it yourself.
Ripping out the current wallboard, adding a new door, burying conduit, etc. All things you can do yourself. As for electricity, i would investigate adding a sub-panel to the garage. One good amplifier will eat a 20A breaker alive (remember, 20A is set to trip at 16A realistically). As for the floor, how badly unlevel is it? If it's only 1/2 inch or so, just put a false floor in, looks like you have the room for such. I would do the cathederal style myself, just because i think it looks good, but it's ultimately up to you. (good place to hide speaker wires, mounts, projectors, etc.)


As for A/C, look into one of those "remote" A/C units. They're moderately cheap, unit outside, and this little box sits just up on the wall. AFAIK, you can put ductwork in attached to these as well, but don't hold me to that.


This is the route i'd go, personally. I would most definately try to do as much as you can by yourself. It's a good excuse to buy tools, sit in the garage with some friends drinking some cold drinks.
You can even pre-hang all the wiring boxes yourself, that'll cut down quite a bit on the money.
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nathan_h
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The beginning of the Story -- in case you want to follow it in real time!

The Beginning

The house we bought is a 1920s era cottage, with a detached garage. The detached garage will be the home theater.

Two rolling doors on the front are the only access (other than a window) right now.

There is a window at the left side of the right wall (ie, towards the back of the garage).

I'll start a second post with some more information, that leads to some ideas I have, and some questions...

UPDATED DESIGN LAYOUT: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=82761




Details: The Space

The space is almost exactly 17' x 17' inside.

This is not great acoustically (square). And I'm thinking I'd prefer to have a little space outside the theater space proper for the equipment rack, and possibly for some storage of non theater stuff (a couple of bikes, perhaps). So I've been thinking of ways to make use of an internal wall. Here is a sketch.


The front garage doors are at the bottom of this sketch. The man-door on the lower right does not yet exist. (Quote for that is $480.) The window in the upper right is the existing window which I think I will black out but not remove (for fire safety). The wall the separates the entrance area from the theater proper does not exist yet (no quote yet) but may be problematic if it is too close to where the current garage doors slide to when open. On the other hand, I don't want to make the theater too small, and right now it's sketched out to barely fit three seats wide in the rear area. That's enough seating in terms of how many people fit (95% of the time) but maybe not enough space to allow space for the speakers in the "rear" (I prefer 5 matched speakers, direct radiating, rather than diffuse surround speakers). And I'm thinking the walls will be covered with thin black velvet somewhat transparent curtains, with acoustic treatments behind them, and cables run behind them, so I need a few inches on each side and back for that, as well.

One question becomes: Make the garage doors in-operable by removing the tracks they slide onto? We're not planning to ever use it as a garage, but the spouse wants it to still look like a garage (and I like the "low pro[file]" nature of leaving the look the same). If we disable the doors, we could remove tracks and gain space inside and maybe make the storage area smaller.

(Note that the second set of seats will be on a riser.)

I am NOT wed to this layout, but it's the best I could come up with that means the following needs:

1. Seats at least 4 people
2. One seat is in the perfect sweet spot
3. The equipment can be out of the room (except for a discrete piece that faces inward).
4 . There is a little storage outside of the theater space itself.
5. The left wall and the back wall of the garage a not suitable for the man-door, because they abut neighbor's fences -- and the front cannot accommodate a man door, given the presence of the two garage doors, though I could consider modifying that if it really made a lot of sense.


The Floor

The concrete floor is badly cracked, and no longer level.

The quote I got the replace the concrete floor with a new one, 4 inches deep, is $1854. I think I need to make sure that includes rebar, to help prevent the cracking and unleveling from re-occurring.

The height from the floor to where the cross beams for the ceilings begins needs to be measured again. My notes got misplaced. But I think it was 8 feet, which is not ideal. I cannot really raise the roof (though I am thinking about ways to make use of the open ceiling) but perhaps repouring the floor presents an opportunity to dig down 6 inches and increase the effective height of the space?



The Ceiling and Walls

Here's the good news: The roof itself is pretty good.

The ceiling has a skylight which will be blocked. The big question right now is do we drywall the ceiling as a cathedral style? The quote for doing it that way, and for drywalling the walls (pulling off the old stuff and putting on something new) is $4950.

I was thinking of removing the window, but I now think we block it out, but make it a removable block (from the inside) for fire safety.



The Electricity

There appears to be at least one 15 amp circuit dedicated to the garage, but more investigation is needed. What is sure, the wires from the house to the garage are hung from the room or each structure and run through the yard at about 6feet off the ground, through a few trees, which is totally crazy. So we need to put some conduit in the ground, and re-run the power. I'm thinking we should run two conduits: One for power, and one for everything else (2 coax RG6, 2 CAT6, phone, possibly HDMI and/or Component Video but more about that, later). Comments on the conduit and what is in it?

The contractor I've talked with about burying the cables has quoted a price of $2450 to do that. There is a 4 foot wide concrete walkway in the the path of the wire that will need to be torn up (but not replaced), but otherwise the path between the buildings is just 40 feet of dirt.

The power for the house is iffy. Most of the knob and tube that was once in the basement (crawl space) appears to have been replaced with romex over the years, but nothing in the main house appears grounded and I wonder whether there is knob and tube wiring in the walls. Luckily, we got avoid the house wiring and go straight out to the garage for the theater gear.

I'm thinking 2 15 amp and 1 20 amp circuit, dedicated for the garage, would be good. I want to estimate high, because I'd like to have the yard dug up before we move it -- but we won't be ready to complete all the garage work -> theater space by then. I think I definitely need to get the main panel (circuit breaker) for the house upgraded, since it's a 100 amp unit:


The garage itself will need to be rewired with the new power. The guy I've been getting quotes from recommended a subpanel at the garage. The cost of putting this in, and wiring outlets, is $1450.


Climate Control

Once it is insulated, heating it with an electric radiant heater could work okay. But cooling is another issue. I don't mind the ideal of a window-style air conditioner but placement and noise are a concern. Gotta think this one through, more.


Sound control, Aesthetics, Gear, etc

I'm not too worried (maybe I should be) about noise leakage. It's a detached structure, and once new insulation and drywall is in place, a couple of good doors, and that new internal wall, I think it'll be okay. Maybe some use of green glue for the new drywalling is a good idea, too....

But internally, I'll do acoustic treatments. Right now, I'm using some auralex absorbers on the ceiling of my living room theater --which has book shelves along the walls for diffusion, thick carpeting, and furniture. The new theater will need more dedicated treatment (I see Real Traps in my future)....

But, this gets into the realm of the mechanics, look and design of the internals, which I'll leave till later (a later post, and maybe a later phase of work). I just want to make sure, for now, that I don't paint myself into a corner with the first batch of structural changes to the space. Am I?

I also anticipate a few gear changes. My system now is built around a Sony Pearl, Matte White screen, HTPCs, HD-DVD, HD Dish PVR, Parasound amplification, Outlaw controller, and Magnepan speakers. The main changes are probably the controller, the screen (may got larger than my current 92 inch diag, may go for 2.35:1, and will definitely get a fixed wall screen instead of the retractable I have now) and possibly speakers (love the Maggies but may not be what I want in the new pace and may use a couple of them in the main house for two channel.) But more about gear, later.





As you can surmise from the fact that I've been a renter until now, all this planning is based on what I have read and been told, rather than any experience with this stuff. I've managed to cobble together decent setups in spaces where I cannot make significant modifications but putting together the structure almost from scratch is a whole new ball game.
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nathan_h
PS: By "remote AC" you do *not* mean something like this, right?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1142290461796
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nathan_h

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobenet /forum/post/0


As for the floor, how badly unlevel is it? If it's only 1/2 inch or so, just put a false floor in, looks like you have the room for such.
Click to expand...

It's hard to see from the photos, but there are cracks in the middle running in a few directions, sometimes creating a ledge of a few inches from one part of the floor to another, in addition to tilting. One key concern I'd have with a false floor is loosing more height but also I'd worry about what happens when the floor moves more....

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobenet /forum/post/0


I would do the cathederal style myself, just because i think it looks good, but it's ultimately up to you. (good place to hide speaker wires, mounts, projectors, etc.)
Click to expand...

This was roughly what I was thinking, but then I started to wonder whether the beams going across would look dumb. I don't think I can remove them, for structural reasons, though maybe the new interior wall could handle the structural stuff. But the more height I can garner, the better, I think.


----------


Doing the work myself: I'm sure I'll do a lot but there are some things I'd like to have assistance with.... both to make sure it goes right, and to get it into a condition where I can start to use it, even before it's finished, since I won't have a place for the projector and surround set up in the new house at all..... so I'll be without home theater until this place is minimally together!



----------


I'm also wondering whether I've got the best layout and use of space, given the size of the building. What do you think? Would you cram more seats in there? (For example.) Or make other changes to the approach?
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nathan_h
Did some more measuring and it appears that while the items I put in my diagram will fit, the direct radiating speakers for the surround/rear will be literally inches from the ears of those in the left or right seat in the back row.


That's not so good.


I'm thinking that I cannot move the rows forward, since the front row is already about 1.25 screen widths from the screen (assuming a 92 inch diag 16x9 screen). So the options are:


Option A:


Move the side walls apart (ie, make the theater wider), and/or


Option B:


Use smaller chairs in row #2 (similar in effect to option "A" but also probably increases the space to the back wall as well -- a good thing).


Of course, option "B" means that those seats stop being luxury home theater seats and end of up being a row of more conventional movie theater seats like one sees in a local cineplex: Not recliners, no foot rest. (I'll try to post pictures of what I mean, later today, in case that's not a clear description.) This creates two classes of viewers (not great) though being the host that I am, the little lady and I would relegate ourselves to the back row when guests join us.... mostly
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nathan_h
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So, here are examples of the seats I'm thinking about for the second row, due to space limitations. Am I crazy? Should I be making the space larger, instead?



For reference, here is what will be in the front row, one of these chairs, and one of the chaise version:



(You can see the chaise version in the downloadable PDF from the la-z-boy web site .)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h /forum/post/0


You can see the chaise version in the downloadable PDF from the la-z-boy web site
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Those chaise versions look pretty good. Do you know how much they sell'em for? Couldn't find pricing online.
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nathan_h
I don't know, yet, but I plan to make a trip to la-z-boy soon and see. Definitely need to have one in the theater, since the little lady has a bad back and needs to recline fully when watching a movie.
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Found a review of the la-z-boy seats that spoke in general about their MSRP:


"The suggested retail price of the dividing furniture pieces (including the wedge and console) ranges from $299 in fabric to $799 in leather. Prices for the seating furniture pieces (including the one- and two-arm recliners) range from $599 in fabric to $1,899 in leather with the power reclining option."
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Nice to see another garage converter, there aren't too many of us - I'm converting 1/2 of a 4 car garage for my HT.


nathan_hThe contractor I've talked with about burying the cables has quoted a price of $2450 to do that. There is a 4 foot wide concrete walkway in the the path of the wire that will need to be torn up (but not replaced) said:
Sounds pretty steep to me - also, I would think you could burrow under that walkway and run the conduit under it if you wanted to keep it - I did that when running PVC for sprinklers under our sidewalk before - attach a thick length of PVC pipe to a garden hose, and use water pressure to "drill" a path under the walkway, then lay your pipe (conduit) into that path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobenet /forum/post/0


As for A/C, look into one of those "remote" A/C units.
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I think goobenet is referring to a "split A/C" unit - search Google, you'll find a number of options - basically the compressor part is separate and installed outside, the rest (fan and what not - the quieter part) is mounted inside. That's what I'm planning on using for my HT as well.


As far as layout, what I'm doing is using the "back wall" of the garage for my screen wall - about 2 feet away from the back wall, there will be a false wall with the screen and stage, front speakers, etc. - the garage door will be removed, framed in, and replaced with double entry doors. Maybe you could do something similar, this would get you to non-square, and you could hide the gear behind / alongside the screen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h /forum/post/0


Found a review of the la-z-boy seats that spoke in general about their MSRP:

"The suggested retail price of the dividing furniture pieces (including the wedge and console) ranges from $299 in fabric to $799 in leather. Prices for the seating furniture pieces (including the one- and two-arm recliners) range from $599 in fabric to $1,899 in leather with the power reclining option."
Click to expand...

Let me know what you find out when you check'em out. I'm still in the market for some seating and these look very comfortable. I would go with cloth since I have dogs and don't want them tearing up expensive leather.
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nathan_h

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte /forum/post/0


Nice to see another garage converter, there aren't too many of us - I'm converting 1/2 of a 4 car garage for my HT.




Sounds pretty steep to me - also, I would think you could burrow under that walkway and run the conduit under it if you wanted to keep it - I did that when running PVC for sprinklers under our sidewalk before - attach a thick length of PVC pipe to a garden hose, and use water pressure to "drill" a path under the walkway, then lay your pipe (conduit) into that path.




I think goobenet is referring to a "split A/C" unit - search Google, you'll find a number of options - basically the compressor part is separate and installed outside, the rest (fan and what not - the quieter part) is mounted inside. That's what I'm planning on using for my HT as well.


As far as layout, what I'm doing is using the "back wall" of the garage for my screen wall - about 2 feet away from the back wall, there will be a false wall with the screen and stage, front speakers, etc. - the garage door will be removed, framed in, and replaced with double entry doors. Maybe you could do something similar, this would get you to non-square, and you could hide the gear behind / alongside the screen.
Click to expand...

Cool. Thanks for the tip about the split A/C unit. I was able to find some online and they do sound like a good solution -- and many can do heat as well as cooling. Very nice.


---


I need to get more clarity from the contractor about what I get for the $2450. If it really is only the digging and burying (and removal of the concrete walkway that we don't want, anyway) then I think he has to give us a better price. But we did talk about replacing the main circuit breaker panel to the house, which requires several more steps, and I'm beginning to think he is including that, as well as dealing with the hanging wires, etc.


----


Wow, you did those diagrams of your theater in your thread with SKETCH UP? I used that program once, to diagram some speaker stands. Gotta bust it out again for this!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tat2boy /forum/post/0


Let me know what you find out when you check'em out. I'm still in the market for some seating and these look very comfortable. I would go with cloth since I have dogs and don't want them tearing up expensive leather.
Click to expand...

I shall.
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Wow, it looks like the contractor I found has suddenly been able to move me up in his schedule for drywalling to THIS WEEK!


Trouble is, I still am unsure of the final layout of the theater.


I'm pretty sure about the internal wall, and door location. Screen location seems unlikely to change but I'm not 100% sure. I don't think I'll be using in-wall speakers, but will start out using my existing Magnepans.


But the usual approach for these things is to know where conduit should be run, to get the speaker cable and video cable and power in the walls in the right places. And I'm not sure I know that yet, or that it might not change!

So, what's my best bet for creating something I won't have to rip apart?


I'm thinking I confirm that we'll have 3 circuits for the space (2x15 and 1x20 amp), and that I should have an outlet on each wall, perhaps two -- one towards each end, with the 20amp outlets on the new wall, facing both into the theater and into the entry room?


And I'm thinking that I make a best guess about conduit for speaker and video cabling, and have him put that into the walls? Or perhaps I assume that I'll be hanging fabric, perhaps curtains, on the walls over the acoustic treatment, so speaking cabling can run around the floor edges, covered by that fabric, leaving me with flexibility?


Hmmm. A lot to decide quickly! (I don't want to delay him though, because that could move things out a few months -- and as soon as I move in February I won't have a place to watch movies until this garage is at least mostly converted into a room.)
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Managed to get a short reprieve from the drywalling step! Should be enough time to allow the Green Glue to arrive. I won't be using the Green Glue to do a second layer of drywall. Rather, we'll use it to run along the edges of the framing, prior to putting the drywall up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goobenet /forum/post/0


As for the floor, how badly unlevel is it? If it's only 1/2 inch or so, just put a false floor in, looks like you have the room for such.
Click to expand...

Mea culpa. Looks like this might be the better route. I've been reading about Dricore and it could work well. and be perhaps half the cost of new concrete -- plus it will be nicer to walk and cover than concrete. Still a bit pricey, though. Assuming I can wait for a sale or use a discount voucher, I'm figuring about $5/sq ft.
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nathan_h
Today's question is, What kind of insulation to put behind the drywall?
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Just ran across your thread and if you go cathedral ceiling I would take out the "beams" across the ceiling they are not load bearing and it would clean it up a bunch. The only thing they are for is storage from the look of things.

Doug
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