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Discussion Starter #1
In newest Russian magazine "Stereo & Video" 02/2008 I've read testing of various Full HD LCD/D-ILA projectors. In this review I've found value of native ON/OFF contrast of a projector without using of IRIS.


Epson 1080UB (TW2000) - 3190:1

Sanyo Z2000 - 1850:1

Panasonic AE2000 - 1850:1

Mitsubishi HC6000 - 1450:1


Epson became an absolute champion of LCD projectors. In other words Epson has in two times better contrast (and black level) than any other LCD projector. In our other Russian forum one member confirmed that in his testing of Epson 1080UB he measured 2950:1 contrast.

Also Epson 1080UB has 255 kd/m2 for white field and 0.08 kd/m2 for black. For example Panasonic AE2000 has 295 kd/m2 (white) and 0.16 kd/m2 (black).


According this magazine JVC RS2 (HD100) has 9375:1 contrast ratio.

And this projector became the best projector which was in laboratory of this magazine.


And JVC RS1 (HD1) has 4750:1


p.s. I'm waiting coming of my own Epson Pro 1080UB projector on this week.
 

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Proportionally, those figures don't have a lot of relationship to those other testers have found. The Two JVCs, for example, are much lower than most testers, whilst the LCDs are about the same.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malder1 /forum/post/12957819


In newest Russian magazine "Stereo & Video" 02/2008 I've read testing of various Full HD LCD/D-ILA projectors. In this review I've found value of native ON/OFF contrast of a projector without using of IRIS.


Epson 1080UB (TW2000) - 3190:1

Sanyo Z2000 - 1850:1

Panasonic AE2000 - 1850:1

Mitsubishi HC6000 - 1450:1


Epson became an absolute champion of LCD projectors. In other words Epson has in two times better contrast (and black level) than any other LCD projector. In our other Russian forum one member confirmed that in his testing of Epson 1080UB he measured 2950:1 contrast.

Also Epson 1080UB has 255 kd/m2 for white field and 0.08 kd/m2 for black. For example Panasonic AE2000 has 295 kd/m2 (white) and 0.16 kd/m2 (black).


According this magazine JVC RS2 (HD100) has 9375:1 contrast ratio.

And this projector became the best projector which was in laboratory of this magazine.


And JVC RS1 (HD1) has 4750:1


p.s. I'm waiting coming of my own Epson Pro 1080UB projector on this week.


cine4home.com (cine4home.de) did extensive measurements of the HD1/RS1 and RS2/HD100 at different zoom positions/lamp setting/colour temp etc.


The on/off contrast of both model measured significantly higher than 10K:1 i.e. HD1 = 12-19.3k:1/HD100 = 24-31k:1.


D
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, I also was wondered when read this magazine.


But if JVC RS1 really has 15000:1 contrast ratio and Epson 1080UB 4000:1, JVC should has in 3-4 times more deep black level, isn't it?


But ProjectorReview.com and ProjectorCentral.com say that with dynamic IRIS off Epson 1080UB comes very close to JVC RS1.

And above mentioned 4750:1 for JVC RS1 and 3250:1 for Epson 1080UB confirms this small difference.
 

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I believe the VW60 has been measured above 5000 native before. Don't trust these readings. They seem to be low on all LCOS based machines
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrigavitch /forum/post/12967480


I believe the VW60 has been measured above 5000 native before. Don't trust these readings. They seem to be low on all LCOS based machines

I think when you get above 10,000 to 1 contrast most reviewers do not have the expertise or the equipment to measure the dark level properly. They probably should be using lock in amplifiers and avalanche photo-diodes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malder1 /forum/post/12966716


Yes, I also was wondered when read this magazine.


But if JVC RS1 really has 15000:1 contrast ratio and Epson 1080UB 4000:1, JVC should has in 3-4 times more deep black level, isn't it?


But ProjectorReview.com and ProjectorCentral.com say that with dynamic IRIS off Epson 1080UB comes very close to JVC RS1.

And above mentioned 4750:1 for JVC RS1 and 3250:1 for Epson 1080UB confirms this small difference.

Actually, I think they both tested the Epson with the iris engaged, and found it a little short of the RS1 in blacks and contrast.
 

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From my testing the RS1 averaged in the 12-14k:1 range (and I tested a lot of them). Still working on the RS2 results.

For the Epson, I did not check it with the iris off, but on it was close to 10k:1. I did also measure the VW60 native (no iris) at about 3800:1.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 /forum/post/12968802


I think when you get above 10,000 to 1 contrast most reviewers do not have the expertise or the equipment to measure the dark level properly. They probably should be using lock in amplifiers and avalanche photo-diodes.

On my recent testing marathon it was a revelation to see what had to be done to get reliable genuine figures that were required for professional HD imaging. Most reviewers are simply incapable of this, nor do they have the test equipment or blackout chambers.
 

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Indeed. Personally, I always am upfront that I don't have an ideal testing room to really see what one is capable of. Rather I preface all my postings by saying my results are what one would expect to find in a similar environment as mine.


Only those with ideal rooms (like Greg R) are really going to get the most accurate results.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/12972591


Indeed. Personally, I always am upfront that I don't have an ideal testing room to really see what one is capable of. Rather I preface all my postings by saying my results are what one would expect to find in a similar environment as mine.


Only those with ideal rooms (like Greg R) are really going to get the most accurate results.

I've always found your figures to be good. We've compared notes on a couple of machines and always been close.
 

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Though I am not a professional reviewer by any means, I do have the gear and knowledge to do it so I do tend to trust my results. Although admittedly I too get some that I myself question...
 

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What have you found to be the average measured native contrast figures for:


* A typical DarkChip2 DLP

* A typical DarkChip3 DLP


Thanks in advance...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis /forum/post/13004283


What have you found to be the average measured native contrast figures for:


* A typical DarkChip2 DLP

* A typical DarkChip3 DLP


Thanks in advance...

Implementation is really more important than averages. For example the Sharp xv-z3000 is darkchip2 but reaches a contrast around 6000:1. However there are many other Darkchip2 projectors that max out around 2-3,000:1. There are also many Darkchip3 projectors that don't match the Sharp xv-z3000 contrast. If I had to guess I would say that directly off the chip Darkchip2 has a contrast ratio between 6,000:1 and 8,000:1, and obviously Darkchip3 should be slightly higher. The problem is that to get those higher contrast values you must reduce light scatter in the optical path with an iris, which also reduces light output. Very few dlp projectors on the market actually use the full contrast of the Darkchip DMD. So, just because a projector uses Darkchip3 doesn't mean it will be better than a Darkchip2 model.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus /forum/post/13006094


Implementation is really more important than averages. For example the Sharp xv-z3000 is darkchip2 but reaches a contrast around 6000:1. However there are many other Darkchip2 projectors that max out around 2-3,000:1. There are also many Darkchip3 projectors that don't match the Sharp xv-z3000 contrast. If I had to guess I would say that directly off the chip Darkchip2 has a contrast ratio between 6,000:1 and 8,000:1, and obviously Darkchip3 should be slightly higher. The problem is that to get those higher contrast values you must reduce light scatter in the optical path with an iris, which also reduces light output. Very few dlp projectors on the market actually use the full contrast of the Darkchip DMD. So, just because a projector uses Darkchip3 doesn't mean it will be better than a Darkchip2 model.

Thanks Sisyphus.


This is encouraging, as the next unit I'm looking at getting is a Benq W5000, which is a DarkChip2, but rated at 10000:1 with Dynamic Iris & DynamicBlack. (Its supposed native contrast is unknown at this point.)

I currently have a Mitsubishi HC3000, rated at 3000:1 with iris open.


I'm really surprised how many high-profile reviews (ProjectorCentral and Projectorreviews.com most notably) point to the record-breakingly high ANSI-contrast levels coming from units like the RS1 and Epson 1080 UB. Yet having compared both to even 3000:1-rated DLPs, I've found they come up short, with the deep black levels coming very much at the expense of brightness.


Does this ring true with everyone's experience here?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis /forum/post/13006292


Thanks Sisyphus.


This is encouraging, as the next unit I'm looking at getting is a Benq W5000, which is a DarkChip2, but rated at 10000:1 with Dynamic Iris & DynamicBlack. (Its supposed native contrast is unknown at this point.)

I currently have a Mitsubishi HC3000, rated at 3000:1 with iris open.

I've been reading the threads on the Benq W5000 and they have been really disappointing regarding contrast....one even measured contrast at something like 750:1, w/o Dynamic Iris on.


I'm a DLP'r too, but I would seriously consider staying away from the W5000 as it seems it would perform even worse than your Mits. 3000. The Benq Pe8720 would be a better choice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis /forum/post/13006292


I'm really surprised how many high-profile reviews (ProjectorCentral and Projectorreviews.com most notably) point to the record-breakingly high ANSI-contrast levels coming from units like the RS1 and Epson 1080 UB. Yet having compared both to even 3000:1-rated DLPs, I've found they come up short, with the deep black levels coming very much at the expense of brightness.


Does this ring true with everyone's experience here?

Ansi contrast levels from the RS1 and 1080UB are not at all record breaking. The Sharp 20k beats the RS1 in ansi contrast and would easily beat the 1080UB too. It's the on/off contrast in the RS1 is what is record breaking. On the 1080UB the native contrast is record breaking (for a LCD), reaching DC2+ levels (and maybe poorly implemented DC3 levels).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisyphus /forum/post/13006094


Implementation is really more important than averages. For example the Sharp xv-z3000 is darkchip2 but reaches a contrast around 6000:1. However there are many other Darkchip2 projectors that max out around 2-3,000:1. There are also many Darkchip3 projectors that don't match the Sharp xv-z3000 contrast. If I had to guess I would say that directly off the chip Darkchip2 has a contrast ratio between 6,000:1 and 8,000:1, and obviously Darkchip3 should be slightly higher. The problem is that to get those higher contrast values you must reduce light scatter in the optical path with an iris, which also reduces light output. Very few dlp projectors on the market actually use the full contrast of the Darkchip DMD. So, just because a projector uses Darkchip3 doesn't mean it will be better than a Darkchip2 model.

Sharp xv-z3k has mearured well below 4k w/o iris.

With iris in hi contrast mode it has mid 5k but there is a catch..low low lumen. It is one of the dimmest DLP in hi contrast mode.
 
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