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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's my current set-up. Front towers-mirage v2 omnisats(55hz), center-mirage v2 omnisats(70hz), surrounds-mirage v2 omnisats(70hz) and the sub is a DIY TC Sounds 3K 15". I like the performance of the sub up to about 50-60hz. My speakers crossover is at 80hz (could go up to 100hz if needed). I need help in the 50-60hz up to 80hz-100hz mid-bass area. My budget is $500 and cannot be too big (no more than 1.5cf-2cf). I want above all top SQ and then SPL for that mid-bass area. Here are my options;

1. Hsu MSM 12", the easiest to set-up but the biggest.

2. AV123 ufw 10" (rocket) sub, has a parametric eq., very musical according to Craigsub (50-points on SQ) and can get used for $400.

3. Velodyne HGS 10" sub, I have one (broken amp). Can get the amp repaired + S/H both ways for about $300, has a 35hz subsonic filter, very musical.

4. Audiopulse Epic 8" DVC 4ohm, "beefy driver" used on Ebay for about $125-$150, amp would be a ED LT350 or LT550 about $175-$250 and a DIY sealed ply box about $50 (total about $400), driver is the same brand as my sub.

5. JL 8w7, also very musical, can get it for about $275, DIY sealed ply box for about $50 and the ED LT350 amp for $175. Total cost is about $500.

Out of these five choices, which one would you choose and why. Also, are there any other options available out there for $500 or less? I realize I might have to add crossovers, eq. and filters (behringer?) to help get the right response of both subs. Right now I'm using a ED EQ2 for my 3k sub.
 

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In all honesty the dip you are experiencing is small in comparison to most, I would just leave it and save up for some larger more capable main loudspeakers. Now that you have some killer sub bass... you need a set of mains that have at least a pair of 8" woofers in them and a tweeter that won't crap out at 110 db.


Midbass gives you important spacial (directional) clues.... unless you have a midbass module for both sides near the main speakers with perfect integration, I would leave that alone. If the transition is off in level or causes a discontinuity elsewhere... you will notice it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Michael, I did think that option over, to get bigger speakers but then I would probably have to also upgrade the amp. Right now I'm using a Yamaha, 120w x7 (real power is about 90w x 5, my current set-up). You're probably talking about two or three grand easy. If I push my budget up (thank God I'm getting some $ on taxes) to about $1,000 and get two Hsu MSM mid-bass modules and put them next to my front speakers, would that give me that sq and spl on my room? (4-4,500cf and seating about 9ft from the subs)

Also, since I have a big wall wood unit, the only place for the Hsu subs would be inside the cabinets (opposing ends). I would just open the door of the cabinets when I want to hear the subs and keep them in hidding when not in use (good waf for sure). But would that (sealed cabinets with just the door open) restrict the sub's sound or make it sound different than placed on a open space?
 

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There are other options out there than those commercial one's you listed and also other sub drivers than what you mentioned. Instead of looking at smaller "subwoofers" look towards 12-15" pro audio style woofers. A simple BASH 300 or 500w amp can work great and can be had fairly cheap.


Basically, just copy the HSU-MBM
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Looneybomber, now you got me thinking again. Using pro-audio woofers is an option for sure. Just checked partsexpress and saw some interesting drivers there, specially from eminence and B&C. Due to size constraints, it must be sealed and no more than a 12" (my cabinet from the wall unit is 14.4" w x 20"H x 20"D). Most of those drivers are 8ohm, so if I buy a 500w plate amp at 4ohms it will produce about half that power at 8ohms, right? Which of those 10" to 12" partsexpress woofers would work best for me? Also, how would they compare to the options I listed above for SQ and SPL? The price with everything included for those drivers is at or below $500, which I like. Any other option besides partsexpress?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 /forum/post/15517358


Here's my current set-up. Front towers-mirage v2 omnisats(55hz), center-mirage v2 omnisats(70hz), surrounds-mirage v2 omnisats(70hz) and the sub is a DIY TC Sounds 3K 15". I like the performance of the sub up to about 50-60hz. My speakers crossover is at 80hz (could go up to 100hz if needed). I need help in the 50-60hz up to 80hz-100hz mid-bass area. My budget is $500 and cannot be too big (no more than 1.5cf-2cf). I want above all top SQ and then SPL for that mid-bass area. Here are my options;

1. Hsu MSM 12", the easiest to set-up but the biggest.

2. AV123 ufw 10" (rocket) sub, has a parametric eq., very musical according to Craigsub (50-points on SQ) and can get used for $400.

3. Velodyne HGS 10" sub, I have one (broken amp). Can get the amp repaired + S/H both ways for about $300, has a 35hz subsonic filter, very musical.

4. Audiopulse Epic 8" DVC 4ohm, "beefy driver" used on Ebay for about $125-$150, amp would be a ED LT350 or LT550 about $175-$250 and a DIY sealed ply box about $50 (total about $400), driver is the same brand as my sub.

5. JL 8w7, also very musical, can get it for about $275, DIY sealed ply box for about $50 and the ED LT350 amp for $175. Total cost is about $500.

Out of these five choices, which one would you choose and why. Also, are there any other options available out there for $500 or less? I realize I might have to add crossovers, eq. and filters (behringer?) to help get the right response of both subs. Right now I'm using a ED EQ2 for my 3k sub.

what oyu need is a high sensitivity sub, xmax not so important, but size is! The 8W7 would be a very poor choice. Look at pro audio 15" woofers that pull 92 - 94+ dB. You don't want a small woofer for this job, you need something with high sensitivity. 80Hz is still very low. A 15" woofer can still reach 800 or so Hz without off-axis cone issues.


I like the idea of a two-way subwoofer a lot, but if you do that I would definitely make sure that the TC woofer is vented unless it already is. the pro audio is fine sealed, even if its low Q because you're not asking for deep bass out of the midbass woofer.
 

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I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't consider upgrading your mains (that aren't providing the mid-bass that you're looking for) instead of adding one or two mid-bass boxes. Assuming you'll eventually upgrade your speakers, you'll likely find the mid-bass redundant. I'd put the money towards better speakers instead.


Jason
 

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I too am looking at mbm or should I say a pair to sit up front and blend with my Polk Rti8's.


I upgraded my fronts to Rti10's last week and CLearly the 10's are no match in the Mid range dept.

The 8's have 2 mids each with a different crossover point and they are FULL of mid range that has a sound I love for movies.

The 10's I bought showed my the 80-200hz sound I have benn missing.

I packed up my Rti10's and returned them..NOW.. looking for Bass in the 80-200hz to blend as best as possible with my fronts.. Like the Original poster.

I think I understand where he is coming from.

Hsu MBM woofer set up.. to run with off the Pre out front L R instead of off LFE signal ?

Any other product than Hsu ? Or are they the pioneers in what will be a big part of most home theaters.

I'm sure many more will eventually follow.

I have a SVS PB12 PlusX2 which is great Down Low.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 /forum/post/15517761


Michael, I did think that option over, to get bigger speakers but then I would probably have to also upgrade the amp. Right now I'm using a Yamaha, 120w x7 (real power is about 90w x 5, my current set-up).

This part is not necessarily true. I had a Denon 3801 powering my Adire 281's for years (4ohm). It did very well. I don't know which Yamaha you have but even know that with the price of the Emotiva amps you can add 5 channels for $600 or so. Or add 3 channels with significant output and let the receiver handle the rest, which is relatively easy.


You gotta start with your speakers though. I love Mirage but those ominsats are made with the first design goal being small.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I like the mirage speakers also but on a big room like mine they do need some help on the mid-bass area. Changing the speakers to bigger ones would not go well with the wife, getting a mid-bass module or two would since they would go right into the cabinets on my wall unit. I don't have a problem running the mid-bass (if I build one sub) all the way up to 200hz but as I understand, the mid-bass slam is on the 60hz-100hz or 120hz area. I would play with the crossovers to see what's best for me. My yamaha is a rx-v2400 about five years old so probably I would upgrade later this year (I like the new rx-v3900). I'm going to check more info on the pro drivers, as much as I would like the 15", due to space issues, I need to get the 12", any suggestions on a good 12" woofer for a sealed application?
 

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Check out the GR Research/Rythmik kits, they can go up to 120 Hz crossovers. Do you plan to high pass out of your other sub, to the mid bass units or combine them with your L/R speakers and set the size to "large" in your receiver's crossover?


I'm working on something similar, going to high pass the LFE signal out of a Rythmik DS1500, into a separate BM unit (Outlaw ICBM), to control the L/C/R and two mid bass subs.
 
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