[Cilent1]

Ok I've agonized over this long enough. The upgrade bug has bit and I need a good fix. The HS10 is my first PJ and has introduced my family and I to HT in a way I couldn't have imagined possible a few years ago given my budget. Unfortunately from reading to many posts in this forum I am aware of things like contrast ratio and black level and lumens etc. etc., you get the idea.


I was about to get an HS20 but have a choice to pick up the 8700 (if I can be pushed off the fence). I am aware of all the differences between LCD and DLP. I am unfortunately very sensitive to rainbows. I just viewed a Yamaha DPX1000 and did not see any and felt if I did they might be minimal. Will I have the same experience with the Benq? All I am looking for is better shadow detail and CR. Will the Benq be as bright as an HS10/20 on my screen (118" diag. 1.0 gain) ?


Can somebody push me over the edge. I'm really wondering if the differences are going to be just pretty good, or WOW


Thanks


Anthony

 

[John Schuermann]

Maybe someone in Florida has one you can see!


The less bright the projector, the less noticeable rainbows seem to be. The BenQ is about average in this regard, so I think you'll be fine. Some people do see them, so try to view one of these before plunking down the cash.


118" is about as big as I'd go with the BenQ - I think it should be pretty close to the HS10 in brightness, but the improvement in contrast should push it over the edge.


JOHN

 

[Daniel Hutnicki]

Anthony,


its the worlds greatest projector and it only cost $5. Can you imagine that. Did that push you over the edge.


Ok, now call me for a real price

 

[John Schuermann]

Very funny, Daniel.


JOHN

 

[threed123]

Cilent,


I have a Benq that replaced a CRT. DVD over DVI input is near HD and better than my CRT. However, I do see rainbow, especially on scenes that have moving white objects in a dark scene. While they do get to me now and them, the image quality out weighs the problem. AND the nice guys at AVS have a deal you can't refuse. I bought mine used, but had I not found one used, I would have popped for AVS' price (cheap plug).


Bob


However, I think your screen at 1 gain is going to cause problems with either the H20 or the Benq.

 

[Cilent1]

Bob, I was worried about that also but with my HS10 it is barely acceptable but I was hoping the 8700 would give me a bit more lumens to work with, the HS20 will.


The only reason I'm even considering the 8700 as an option is because I'm able to pick one up used (even stretching it going used). Otherwise AVS would be my first choice (already emailed Jason, no offense Daniel )


Does anyone know if the Runco 710 is similiar to the 8700? A dealer has one I could look at to see what I think.


Thanks for the replies,

Regards

 

[elmhollow]

I had an X1 and the Rainbows made me and my wife both sick. Literally... So I ended up returning it. While I had it, I learned how to "see" and "not see" rainbows, but particularly how to provoke them. She never really learned how, and asked me not to tell her, under the "Don't point out that annoying xyz..." theory. For that reason, I'm not detailing the "how I see them" methods.


I now have a BenQ PE8700. Both of us watch it regularly and enjoy the heck out of it. I've tried once or twice (particularly when I first got it) to "force" myself to see rainbows. No matter how hard I try, I see nary a one... so I've given up and just enjoy the movies.


Of course, individual sensitivity varies... but keep in mind my wife had never heard of the whole rainbow issue when the X1 made her sick (about 1 hour into our first movie). Does that make her sensitive? I don't know, and I fought real hard not to see them... but once I did, I was REALLY bothered by them.


So, the fact that both of us have no issue with the BenQ is one of the best indicators you can get without seeing one personally.


Hope this helps.

 

[Bernie]

Anthony,


The Runco and BenQ are both built by BenQ on the same chassis. The runco is calibrated differently and has a differnent lens with differnt throw and slightly different case. Out of the Box, Runco's calibration probably provides better PQ. Some say that the Runco is better in other ways. I don't know - do a search - this has been discussed before and the discussion does not seem conclusive to me.


It's a pretty far drive, but if you like, you can look at my BenQ in Madeira Beach. Send a PM if interested. I am using a parkland plastic screen until I finally decide. Bring yours if it is portable.


Bernie

 

[threed123]

I've seen the Runco and it compares well to a Benq 8700 that is set up correctly. All I can say. Yes go see the Runco as you can set the Benq to match it. I think mine actually looks better than the Runco I saw with a long throw lens. Either way, try to stay near center and about 12-15 feet from the screen. Any closer and it's unrealistic. Any farther back and you truly won't see true resolution (ie. if you go back far enough, every screen looks sharp).

 

[Kevin Korom]

Anthony, I know you've been waiting to hear my 8700 impressions, since I'm also a HS10 owner. I hate to rush these things, but since you're in need of a fix, I'll give you some opinions.


First, the difference in shadow detail is night and day. This is certainly the HS10's biggest flaw; if it were better I might not be looking for an upgrade. No contest, the 8700's much better in this regard. This is the biggest difference between the two PJs, IMO.


It is somewhat brighter than the HS10 with filters. My HS10 has around 350 lumens with 30R/40R filter, I measured 450-460 on the 8700. However, a filterless HS10 is in the high 500- low 600 range, IIRC.


While my Sony really has a minimal, non-intrusive amount of FPN, the BenQ has none. Screendoor/pixelization is reduced, as well.


As for general picture issues, the BenQ out of the box is noticably green deficient; people look sunburned. A little tweaking quickly takes care of this. Flesh tones look excellent, better than the Sony. The HS10 has this quirk where if there's a prominent color on the screen, the fleshtones drift towards that color ever so slightly. IOW, if the scene's very green, people look like they're going to puke. This is subtle, but it's there (at least on my machine). The 8700 does not do this at all.


I really can't think of a performance area where the BenQ doesn't beat the Sony. I haven't spent much time trying out composite inputs & such, bu they look at least on par, if not better. It's difficult to tell much difference between interlaced & progressive component input. Prog crushes black slightly, but may be a little sharper/smoother, but it's very, very close. I've been using interlaced, since it has better shadow detail. It may be possible to correct the black issue via service menu, but no one's reported on it yet.


It is quieter than the Sony, but it's not silent. If you could live with the HS10, you'll find the BenQ to be fine in that regard.


Now the bad news. I hadn't had much exposure to DLP, just a fairly short demo at a dealer. I didn't have any issues then. Having spent some time with one, I find that: A) I can see rainbows, and B) I'm getting eyestrain. Apparently, a brief exposure isn't enough to determine this; it took me a couple days to realize what I was feeling was from the PJ. I hope this means I'm not overly sensitive to the effect, and may overcome it. It does seem as if my eyes feel a little better as time goes by.


I'd like to hear other's experience with this matter, as to whether the sensitivity diminishes over time. I'd hate to have to part with the picture quality; it's tough to taste the forbidden fruit! Fortunately, I don't get headaches or nausea, and the rainbows are really a minor issue, having seen how instantaneous they are.


So overall I'm very happy with the picture quality, but if the eyestrain continues, I may have to sell it & move on Those of you looking for a low hour 8700 keep an eye on my posts and/or the Marketplace...

 

[threed123]

Kevin, eyestrain is usually caused by the image not being bright enough or too bright. What kind of screen and how big. Eyestrain is not one of my issues, but then I am using a screen of at least 1.5 to 1 gain. Plus there is plenty of contrast/brightness. Most notably, my brightness is at 30 and my contrast at 17, and I could go higher on the contrast without losing too much more black.


Bob

 

[Cilent1]

Kevin, hate to rush your impressions but they were very helpful. Thanks for sharing your experiences regarding the eye strain. I believe the infocus 7200 might be a better pj for my setup since it is brighter. Of course it's out of my reach at this time SOOO, I may just keep saving my pennies for awhile longer and get what I really want.


Again I appreciate everyone's input and thanks for taking the time to post.


(thanks for the offer Bernie, by the way what's that your sipping in your pic, I think I would need one after driving that far, )


Regards,

Anthony

 

[Kevin Korom]

I'm using a High Power, fixed height 116" wide; PJ is ceiling mounted. Since the image is only about 100 lumens brighter than what I'm used to, I doubt that's it. Besides, my HS10 w/o filters could go even brighter than the 8700, and I never got strain from it.


While it measures only somewhat brighter than the Sony, it does feel quite a bit brighter. Perhaps the much higher contrast makes it feel that way. I have tried some low level lighting when watching; I normally watch in complete darkness. The bias lighting does seem to help slightly, although I would prefer not to use it.


I do have a smaller, matte white screen I can try temporarily to see if a lower light level helps, if the issue continues; or I could pick up a ND filter somewhere...

 

[threed123]

Kevin, wow, I can't imagine the Benq being too bright. It just doesn't make sense. I'm always looking to make it brighter. Perhaps you've got the brightness/contrast turned up too high. Put them at mid point and start there. If you get eyestrain, it must be from the spinning wheels, even if you don't see them. Or simply, you could be watching too much TV in the dark.

 

[Scott Peters]

I just received my BenQ 8700 a couple weeks ago, and am very happy with it. Like many of you, I did find out that I am very susceptible to rainbows. I can see them basically all the time, but I've learned how to ignore them for the most part. It does distract slightly from the beautiful picture, but I don't think there is a better alternative for the price.


It is interesting because I had only seen a Sharp 10000 in the store before I bought my BenQ, and never saw a single rainbow on the Sharp. I viewed it on 3 separate occasions but only for a short period each time. Now that I know what to look for, I'll have to go back and view it again to see if I can see them now.


Anyone else see rainbows on the BenQ but not on the Sharp 10K?


As for brightness, I had heard that the BenQ wasn't very bright before I bought it. This projector is plenty bright (I do have total light control), and in fact blasts my eyes when it switches from a dark to a bright scene. I am using a blackout material screen (106" diagonal), which I guess is about unity gain. It must be really bright with a positive gain screen.

 

[Kevin Korom]

I pulled out the matte white screen & tried it for a bit last night. It's definitely a lot dimmer! Actually, I do like the look of a plain white screen and would use one if my PJs were higher output, but I think most prefer a brighter image ala High Power/Silverstar.


Anyway, a dimmer image seemed a little less aggressive on the eyes, but I could still feel it. The PJ is calibrated with Avia, I believe +30 & +17 or 18; very similar to what's been posted around here.


I'll do some more digging in the archives on the subject & see if there's any hope in there. It's from the DLP, I've never gotten eyestrain from LCD or CRT RPTV or direct view, and I have always watched in darkness. Maybe there's an acclaimation period involved (fingers crossed).


Scott, I know exactly what you mean about blasting your eyes; I was watching something with lightning flashes and thought my retinas might burst into flames

 

[Bernie]

Anthony,


The drink is a Mimosa with Campari. Good for a hot summer day. I have some other stuff for this awful cold 70 degree winter weather


Bernie

 

[Cilent1]

Quote:

The drink is a Mimosa with Campari. Good for a hot summer day. I have some other stuff for this awful cold 70 degree winter weather

70 degrees! It's only 66 here with the wind chill factored in

Quote:

It's from the DLP, I've never gotten eyestrain from LCD or CRT RPTV or direct view, and I have always watched in darkness. Maybe there's an acclamation period involved (fingers crossed).

Kevin, my friend went from LCD to DLP (sharp 10000) and says it took about 2 weeks before his eyes did not feel strained, he refused to give up that PQ. He claims it is no longer an issue. Hang in there and give your eyes time to adjust to that gorgeous picture!

 

[Jasman]

I've had the Benq for about a month now. I am truly impressed with it's picture. I have a white painted wall at 9' width (yes, it's big) and there is no resolution issues unless I'm using 480i through standard cable.


If you have/plan to get a DVI dvd or HGTV through DVI, you can go this big and have an AMAZING picture.


I too am sensitive to rainbows (saw them with $10k projector in dealers showroom with 6' wide screen), but have not seen one with the Benq.


I only get eyestrain when watching Time warner cable through S-video connection through S-Vhs vcr, but it's still watchable.


With Benq's superior service, the high build quality of this machine and it's fantastic picture, you'll won't be disappointed.


I PM'd you with great pricing info!


Jasman

 

[Kevin Korom]

Quote:

Kevin, my friend went from LCD to DLP (sharp 10000) and says it took about 2 weeks before his eyes did not feel strained, he refused to give up that PQ. He claims it is no longer an issue. Hang in there and give your eyes time to adjust to that gorgeous picture!

Thanks, I'm gonna ride it out until it gets better or I finally can't take it anymore It just looks so awesome that, at this point, I can't imagine going backwards.


I have seen a few archived posts saying things to the effect that it may subside after a few weeks, like your friend said. I will put it to the test!