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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a very open basement that is finished and am using part of it for my Home Theater. I have all the right equipment and I have a nice projection system but from what I have heard doing everything right is still half the battle unless I tackle the acoustical issues of the room. I am attaching a PDF for review. I have drop celing at 7.5ft height, the HVAC unit and the water heater and sewer sump pump is in one room. Far across the Theater Screen wall is a 2.5 x 3.0 x 4.0 tall sump pump closet. The HVAC room is not double walled and does not have any insulation so is the case with the sump pump closet. If someone can advice me on how to go about dealing with the acoustics of my room that would be great. I know I would need lot of bass traps... does putting acoustical insulation on top of the drop celing any help instead of hoisting 4 inch bass panels ? do I need to put corner bass traps on all the corners of the basement... Please advice..Thank you all.

 

current HT.pdf 80.396484375k . file
 

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IMO that will be a tough room to treat adequately. It is so open in the back and there is not a right side wall. In principle, you want to put absorption on the front, side, and back wall to prevent 1st order reflections from hitting your ear. The front wall and left wall would be pretty easy. I guess you could also treat the stair wall also. You would also want to treat as many corners as possible with bass traps... but I am not sure treating corners so far away from the listening position would help much. I defer to an acoustic expert with regards to that.


As far as sound isolation goes, unless you are planning a major renovation, it will be next to impossible (tearing down the ceiling, adding drywall to existing walls, etc).


As is always the case, it could be done. The question is how much work are you willing to put into it? If I were you I would be looking to create a dedicated space (ie, build a back wall and side wall for the theater). It looks like you could have about an 18'x13' theater, which could be a nice space.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbgonzomd
IMO that will be a tough room to treat adequately. It is so open in the back and there is not a right side wall. In principle, you want to put absorption on the front, side, and back wall to prevent 1st order reflections from hitting your ear. The front wall and left wall would be pretty easy. I guess you could also treat the stair wall also. You would also want to treat as many corners as possible with bass traps... but I am not sure treating corners so far away from the listening position would help much. I defer to an acoustic expert with regards to that.


As far as sound isolation goes, unless you are planning a major renovation, it will be next to impossible (tearing down the ceiling, adding drywall to existing walls, etc).


As is always the case, it could be done. The question is how much work are you willing to put into it? If I were you I would be looking to create a dedicated space (ie, build a back wall and side wall for the theater). It looks like you could have about an 18'x13' theater, which could be a nice space.
Do you think this would be a better approach. I think I would have to shrink the HVAC room a bit...right now there is a 3.5 feet space between the unit and the wall on the right... I dont know if there would be building codes that would prevent me from shrinking the room or not... also the black dots in the first image are the support post... does anyone know if the support post can be moved if I choose to make a dedicated room for the HT. I might just make a room currently for the full bathroom cuz I want to keep the expenses to a minimum... how much do you think would it cost just rough estimate if I am do this rework myself. Also would a 15 x 15 room be enough ...cuz I have an HD70 and the throw angle is so wierd that with a celing height of 7.5 I do not have a lot of options...

 

future HT.pdf 88.630859375k . file
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuchit /forum/post/15516231


Do you think this would be a better approach.

No, that's worse because 1) the room is much smaller, and 2) the seating is right against a wall which magnifies all acoustic problems.


Having a long room is great. If you could build a wall to make it long and narrow, you won't have to worry about treating all the unused parts of the room.


--Ethan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
No, that's worse because 1) the room is much smaller, and 2) the seating is right against a wall which magnifies all acoustic problems.


Having a long room is great. If you could build a wall to make it long and narrow, you won't have to worry about treating all the unused parts of the room.


--Ethan
I might be able to put up this one as well.. is this arrangement better than the other. this way I would be far away from the HVAC room and I would be able to pack more acoustic material inside the 2 new walls blocking all the other external sound...

 

future theater setup2.pdf 374.8115234375k . file
 

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^^^Yes, I like that the best of the three options. I would try to make it a bit longer (20-21). My room is about 18.5' and I really wish I would of had a few extra feet so my back row did not have to be against the wall.


And, yes, you can have support post removed. Obviously, the more you remove, the more complicated it will get. I had one removed for my theater. Cost about a $800-900 for the engineer to look at it and to pay 2 guys to do the work.


BTW, anything Ethan says trumps what I say
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbgonzomd
^^^Yes, I like that the best of the three options. I would try to make it a bit longer (20-21). My room is about 18.5' and I really wish I would of had a few extra feet so my back row did not have to be against the wall.


And, yes, you can have support post removed. Obviously, the more you remove, the more complicated it will get. I had one removed for my theater. Cost about a $800-900 for the engineer to look at it and to pay 2 guys to do the work.


BTW, anything Ethan says trumps what I say
.
If I go another 3rd route I might be able to avoid any floor columns all together and also the expense that comes with it...prolly I could use that money towards something else. But remember that I would not be able to put the dry wall on the celing due to all the water lines running up there... are there acoustically treated drop tiles that are available that I can use in combination with some acoustical insulation between the drop celing and joist that I can use ??? Ethan I would really like your input on this one...

 

HT3LONG.pdf 379.5771484375k . file
 

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I am wondering if you are using the word acoustic and soundproofing in the same context maybe ?


They are very different animals


Everyone so far have been giving you advice for the room " acoustics " which is what you asked for not for soundproofing which you have referred to twice so far regarding the HVAC and now the ceiling
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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Originally Posted by ScruffyHT /forum/post/15520042


I am wondering if you are using the word acoustic and soundproofing in the same context maybe ?


They are very different animals


Everyone so far have been giving you advice for the room " acoustics " which is what you asked for not for soundproofing which you have referred to twice so far regarding the HVAC and now the ceiling


Scruffy I need both... since if you look at the first PDF the HVAC room is close enough and there is alot of noise that filters out of that room..I need to soundproof the HVAC room...regarding celing ... I cannot put a drywall there and I need to keep the drop celing... I dont want to hang 4 inch thick basstraps on the celing ...so I am thinking is there any kind of absorptive celing tile...on which I can put some acoustic insulation which would absorb some more of the first or second reflective waves..Hope that could clear some of what I am saying ..Thank you
 

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Bass traps are not designed to trap bass as in stop bass from leaving the room but to improve the bass IN the room



If you insist on keeping the ceiling tiles you will always have a problem with both sound coing in and sound going out


You mention waterlines in the ceiling ... you can either reroute the waterlines up into the joists or else hang the drywall below the waterlines


If you do lets say double drywall with green glue on the wall to the HVAC .... the sound will still escape via the ceiling if you leave the drop ceiling


You also should look into building mufflers for the air supply and return so that the sound from the HVAC does not go into the theaterand vice versa


Maybe your best bet is to do some reading first at www.soundproofingcompany.com ... goto the library section and get familiar with the concepts of soundproofing


Your first task is to understand what you are dealing with and whether you want to commit to soundproofing the room ... after that you can then deal with the acoustics in the room


We can then answer your specific questions once you have a idea what you want to do
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thankyou Scruffy for all the advice. I took that into consideration and you are right I can probably put a 2x4 on the joist and then put the drywall over to lower the celing so all the water mains are taken care of. Also I was wondering that in order to hear accurate sound doe the room have to be 100% soundproof ??? the only reason why I even mention so much about soundproofing is because my HVAC as per the last plan HT3LONG.PDF would be right next to my screen and front soundstage.. I am sure adding all the insulation in the HVAC room and the joist in the HVAC room and on the theater room would reduce that nosie significantly.. so again my goal is to get accurate sound out of my system. For that I am ready to take the first step that is to build a room please comment on would HT3LONG.pdf above would be a wise first step in attaining that goal ? once the room is up and I put some broadband bass traps on the 2 side walls a couple on the back wall and a couple on the celing above the seating area and a couple on each side of the screen should bring me closer. I also intend put some corner traps atleast on the front wall. would that bring me closer ???
 

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For soundproofing you need to create a room with no leaks... the aquarium analogy is used often. If there are any holes (drop ceiling) the room will not contain sound within it, nor prevent sound from entering (HVAC).


3 things to consider when soundproofing:

1) mass is required to reduce transmission of bass (this is typically accomplished by adding additional layers of drywall).

2) Dampening. This is typically accomplished by using green glue, quiet rock, etc.

3) Decoupling. Preventing sound being transferred from one surface/object to another. This is accomplished with clips, building staggard stud walls, building a room within a room, etc.


Insulation plays a role in decreasing some transmission of sound, but compared to the other things above it is a relatively small component.


If the HVAC is your main concern, you could just soundproof that room, but this may be harder due to all the likely ducts/pipes that will perforate your aquarium. If you are concerned about other sources of noise (people upstairs, HVAC, neighbor's lawn mower) then you should focus on making the theater room the aquarium.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think we are moving away from what my intrest is in .... and it might be all my fault. I am going to attach my current HT setup and my proposed HT setup. I want to know how to best do the acoustic treatments so that the sound produced will be close to accurate with a flat response rather than "muddied" sound. I will take care of the heater/boiler room situation. I am not too much concerned about soundproofing at this point. I need to know where and why should the acoustic treatment be applied. Please let the ideas and advice come in for the acoustic treatment for the new proposed HT room. I plan on using readyacoustics broadband bass traps. The work over the entire spectrum rather than just the low or just high frequency.. is this the way to go.. I use klipsch speakers with a 7.2 channel setup.


Sorry for earlier response if at my fault I was dragging this discussion in a different direction. My primary intrest here is to get the best sound possible from my home theater. I have a 31 x 31 open finished basement as my current setup and doing acoustic treatment is not an option. therefore I plan to make a new room as in the proposed HT3LONG.pdf...which would help me do the right treatments to get the right sound.

 

current HT.pdf 80.396484375k . file

 

HT3LONG.pdf 379.5771484375k . file
 

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If maximizing the sound/performance is your main interest. I would contact Bryan Pape at sensiblesoundsolutions.com, Ethan Winer (posted above), or one of the other acoustic guys who frequent this forum. I used Bryan and he modeled my room and made recommendations for treatments. Cost a few hundred bucks, but it gave me the confidence that what I was doing was correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am sure that there are a lot of people who I can consult for paid services but no offence to anyone I thought that people on this forums are all diyers who have done somekinda acoustic treatments without any professional high paid consults...I do not want to go that route. I need advice and not paid services ... Thank you
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuchit /forum/post/15525124


I need advice and not paid services ... Thank you

Just to clarify, I offer full one-on-one personal consulting for free as part of the sale of my company's products. But I gladly help everyone here for free.


As for your HT3LONG.pdf plans, that looks good but I'd leave off the rear wall, and extend the left side wall all the way back. This puts the rear wall much farther away, assuming you don't mind having the exercise machine in the back of the room.


--Ethan
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuchit /forum/post/15523078


Also I was wondering that in order to hear accurate sound does the room have to be 100% soundproof ???

That all depends on you I guess and just how much the external sounds of the HVAC, water noise in the drain lines, people walking above, sounds from the neighbours/neighbourhood etc etc impact the room you are building and how accurate you want the sound to be when you are watching a movie or listening to tunes


For me I wanted 2 things


I did not want to hear what was going on in the rest of the house ( I have 3 teenagers
) so that if I just wanted a quiet place to chill out and listen to some tunes or watch a movie I could


I also wanted a space that if decided to do all this later at night ( I am a night owl ) then I would not be the one to disturb the rest of the house


Think it through and prioritize what your goals are


Once you have decided on the soundproofing then you can get into the acoustics which will to a degree determine room layout
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer /forum/post/15525292


Just to clarify, I offer full one-on-one personal consulting for free as part of the sale of my company's products. But I gladly help everyone here for free.


As for your HT3LONG.pdf plans, that looks good but I'd leave off the rear wall, and extend the left side wall all the way back. This puts the rear wall much farther away, assuming you don't mind having the exercise machine in the back of the room.


--Ethan

Thank you Ethan for your response. I would not like to push the wall all the way to the back.. cuz there are 2 windows and a sump pump in the back and I would rather have them outside the room. actually my first row would be as close as 12feet from the screen and the second row would be at 14 feet that would still leave a 5 ft distance between the last row and the rear wall even in this configuration. I hope to gain light control as well as leave a lot of open space in the basement. Eventually I plan on adding a full bath in between the stairs and the HVAC room. And I have been looking at using REW software and getting some room response curves from the finished room that would help me decide how much high end frequency or low-mid range frequency need I need to control. Hope that helps...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuchit /forum/post/15528185


I have been looking at using REW software and getting some room response curves from the finished room that would help me decide how much high end frequency or low-mid range frequency need I need to control. Hope that helps...

That would be helpful...you'll still treat the room the normal way though: bass traps in the corners and on the back wall, high frequency panels at the reflection points.


Frank
 
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