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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,


I'm looking at buying a DVD Recorder.


I am debating between the new Tivo + DVD-R units:

* HUMAX DRT800

* TOSHIBA RS-TX20

(or the older PIONEER DVR-810H now that the pixelation bugs seems to have been fixed)

All those units record to DVD-R-RW.

Any recommendation for one or the other?


I am also looking at the new PHILLIPS DVDR740/17 (the only DVD recorder that records 5.1 Audio from the Digital Input)(it also has component video inputs, but I don't think that it has a hard disk recorder onboard).

This unit records to DVD+R/+RW.


(there are also a few cheap DVD PAL/NTSC recorders that only record DVD+R/+RW)



My main DVD Player is an "old" modified SONY S7700 model (PAL/NTSC, Region Free, RGBHV outputs at 720p).


How do I know whether it will read recorded DVD-R/RW or DVD+R/RW media from the units above?


I also have a Toshiba SD6200 player in another room. How do I find ot about which recordable media it will read?


Thanks in advance,

JW
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I forgot to mention: the reason why I am looking at the Tivo+DVD-R combo units is that in the room where I would use it, I have:

* a 32" EDTV (which has only one 480p component input)

* a Toshiba SD6200 progressive DVD player (connected to the 480p component input)

* an early Tivo-1 unit (since 2000) (connected to an S-Video input)


If I understand correctly, all 3 Tivo+DVD-R units have a progressive component output that I could use for both DVD and Tivo playback and thus get a better Tivo picture.


(plus Tivo agreed to transfer my lifetime service to the new Tivo-2 unit and there's currently a $100 rebate on any of those units!)


JW
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, so, no advice regarding the Toshiba RS-TX20 vs Humax DRT800 vs Pioneer DVR-810H Tivo + DVD-R combos?


One thing that bothers me about those units is that you can't edit (commercials, for instance) before copying from HD to DVD.


So.... I'm thinking, maybe I should rather get the Toshiba SDH-400 Tivo + DVD player combo, with component interlaced/progressive output) and a SA DVD recorder (or DVD-R + HD for editing), if possible with component inputs for the best transfers.


Opinions, please!


I'm still interested in the Phillips DVDR740/17 (has component input and 5.1 digital audio input), but it doesn't have a HD.

I also saw the cheap Yamakawa 628 DVD recorder which has component inputs too for less than $200.


Opinions?


Or can you recommend a good DVD recorder with HD that allows editing before burning to DVD?


Thanks,

JW
 

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> One thing that bothers me about those units

> is that you can't edit (commercials, for instance)

> before copying from HD to DVD.



I've had my Pioneer Tivo for nearly a year now and really love it. I have the 57, not the 810, so I don't know if there's a difference, but I haven't seen any pixelation problems.


As for editing, that hasn't been an issue for me. I thought I might miss it, but I haven't. Think of it this way, how much time will you spend editing commercials vs. how much time to fast forward through them? Unless it's a show you're planning on watching over and over again, it's probably not worth the hassle.
 

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Quote:
a Toshiba SD6200 progressive DVD player (connected to the 480p component input)
I'd guess that you should pick a recorder that will be compatible with your existing dvd player...Does your player play -R/RW or +R/RW, discs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Actually, the Toshiba SD6200 and my old Tivo-1 would be replaced by the new Tivo+DVD combo unit. If I get the Toshiba SDH-400 instead, it reads DVD-R/-RW and DVD+R/+RW.


As I said in my first post, my main player (in the home theater room) is a modified Sony DVP-S7700 unit and it is reported to read DVD-R, DVD+R/+RW, but not DVD-RW.

Although, this DVD player is driving my CRT projector (RGBHV output scaled at 720p) to an 8' 16x9 screen. I'm not sure whether the quality of recorded DVDs, especially from Tivo, is going to be acceptable at this size.


Anyone projecting recorded DVDs or Tivo to this size?


JW
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Back to "being able to edit out commercials" question, it seems that even cheap players without HD (such as the ILO / LITEON) allow to mark out segments from the DVD, i.e. the commercials are recorded on the DVD (and thus use up some space), but it seems possible to put markers to skip them upon playback.

Is that true? If yes, is this limited to RW media?


The advantage of a DVD recorder with HDD (or a computer) is that it allows to edit out the video before writing it to DVD.


Hmmm... decisions, decisions...


JW
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jean W
If yes, is this limited to RW media?
No, you can hide sections with DVD+R.

Quote:
The advantage of a DVD recorder with HDD (or a computer) is that it allows to edit out the video before writing it to DVD.


Hmmm... decisions, decisions...
This is especially important if you want to maximise picture quality. If you have a DVD recorder without an HDD and you want to edit, then you won't be using all of the DVD. This is because if you edit video directly on the DVD then the sections you delete (or hide) won't be used to encode the program. Therefore you are not using all the space on the DVD.


OTOH, with a DVD recorder with an HDD you record on the HDD using Flexible Recording (or manual modes), then you can losslessly copy to DVD using ALL the space in the DVD. This maximises picture quality.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jean W
Back to "being able to edit out commercials" question, it seems that even cheap players without HD (such as the ILO / LITEON) allow to mark out segments from the DVD, i.e. the commercials are recorded on the DVD ...

JW
Put hardware quality aside, IMO, Philips has the best and most powerful editing features on DVD+RW.

To me, all DVD recorders are still at a premature/development stage. So, I bought the cheapest available ILO DVDR04 for temporary use and hope that it can last for 2 years. By then, well developed DVD recorders with HDDs (not just a HDD) should be available at a reasonable price.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Sam Ontario
Put hardware quality aside, IMO, Philips has the best and most powerful editing features on DVD+RW.
If you mean that Philips provide better editing features than the other +RW machines from other manufacturers, then you may well be correct (but I doubt it). However if, as I suspect, you mean that Philips +RW has better editing than the other formats, then you couldn’t be more wrong. People who have only experienced +RW recorders tend to believe Philips’ marketing. OTOH people who have actually experienced BOTH + and – recorders know the real situation. I don't see what's “better†about hiding chapters (as used by +RW) instead of deleting them properly (as with –RW)?


If you record something with a –RW recorder using –VR then:


1) You don’t worry about where the recording position is on the disc (as you have to with +RW). –VR always automatically records in the free space.


2) You don’t have to carefully time recordings when you’re overwriting deleted ones. (you do with +RW unless you’re overwriting the last recording).


3) You would find it very hard to accidentally delete a recording (very easy on +RW).


4) All the space from deleted recordings is logically automatically joined together for re-use (with +RW it stays separated).


This is because –VR records in a random access method like a PC hard disc. When you delete a recording, the space it occupied gets automatically added to all the other free space on the disc. This means that you can make one long seamless recording using all the little bits of space on the disc.


With +RW the recording is linear. When you ‘delete’ a recording you are only hiding it, not removing it completely. This means that in order to use its space you have to manually overwrite it. This involves more input from the user, and if the new recording overruns in time then you’ll accidentally overwrite the next recording! The length of your recording will be limited by the length of the hidden recording that you’re overwriting.


So -VR editing on –RW (or RAM) absolutely blows +RW editing out of the water. The only thing that’s “better†about +RW is perhaps the compatibility. Granted, this used to be a problem for some, but if you buy an HDD-equipped DVD recorder with –VR on the hard drive then you combine excellent editing (HDD) with superb compatibility (-R).
 

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Jean,


You don't have to trust me or the others. If you are in North America, you can return the one you don't like. The most important thing in testing the editing capabilities, is to try out all features. I might have been biased to +RW recorders (especially the Philips recorder) since I gave them a full try with over 5 months and only a weeks' try on -R and -RW recorder. I might have not fully explored the full potential of -R and -RW in the one week's try last week!


Now I only own an ILO DVDR04 and waiting the HDD version of +R/+RW recorder to be matured out. Maybe I will switch to -R with a HDD in future if the '-' recorders also matured and fit for use.
 
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