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Need advice in getting the most out of my system

1457 Views 4 Replies 4 Participants Last post by AUDIOandME, Feb 21, 2014

Solaar

Discussion Starter · Feb 18, 2014

Receiver: Yamaha rx-v663
Speaker-system: Dali Zensor 7 (front), Vokal (center) and 1 (back) with a Yamaha YST-SW215* subwoofer.
PS3, Apple-tv as main sources, both connected with hdmi. I listen to music through airplay with a Spotify Premium account or with Wimp Hi-Fi.

After having bought these components separately over the last few years and tried all I can think of when it comes to tweaking both placement and settings I have come to the conclusion that either I'm doing something completely wrong or there is something unsatisfactory with my set-up.

The main problem I am having is the bass which I feel doesn't deliver as it should. With the Zensor 7 as front-speaker and an added subwoofer one would think that there should be more than plenty to deliver that extra "oumpfh" but I haven't heard that yet :-/

What I want is for the sub to fill out the sound from my main speakers and give my music a more immersive feel. With my current settings I'm very disappointed. Output from the subwoofer at settings recommended to complement my main speakers is barely audible at low and moderate volumes, only ramping up when my receiver’s volume is cranked to high levels. At ordinary listening volumes, where one doesn’t have to shout to carry on a conversation, it just doesn’t contribute much to what my main speakers produce. Those rare times when I have the house to myself and want to blast my music is when I get the most out of it but I’m not getting much day-to-day value from it (i listen to music almost constantly and watch a lot of movies in the week-ends). When watching movies, the problem is much the same: there is not enough punch in the bass and the sub isn't anywhere near delivering real good vibrations.

I should probably also add that the settings in this receiver is a bit confusing, especially for someone like me who is not that good at understanding all the technical terms. This text is from the yamaha-faq that I can't find on the web anymore:

Quote:

If the individual speakers are set to SMALL within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, and the LFE/Bass output is set to SWFR (Sub woofer), the LFE/BASS output that is intended for that speaker will be redirected to the sub woofer.

If the individual speakers are set to SMALL within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, and the LFE/BASSoutput is set to BOTH, the LFE/BASS that is intended for that speaker will be redirected to the sub woofer.

If the main/front speakers are set to SMALL and the LFE/Bass output is set to MAIN/FRONT within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, the LFE/BASS output would be muted.

If the main/front speakers are set to LARGE and any other speaker is set to SMALL and the LFE/BASS output is set to MAIN/FRONT within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, the LFE/BASS output for that other speaker would be sent to the main/front speakers.

If all speakers are set to LARGE and the LFE/BASS output is set to SWFR (Sub woofer) within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, you will only get the discrete LFE (The ".1" in a 5.1 movie) signals directed to the sub woofer.

If any speaker is set toLARGE and the LFE/BASS output is set to BOTH within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, you will only get the LFE/Bass output sent to set to that speaker as well as the sub woofer.

If the main/front speakers are set to LARGE and the LFE/Bass output is set to MAIN/FRONT within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, you will get the discrete LFE (The ".1" in a 5.1 movie) signals directed to the main/front speakers.

Here is also something that I found relevant at one time but now just confuses me more (conversation i noted from somewhere long ago):

Quote:
I would take the sub out of BOTH as well, and put it on SUB only.

Not if you want to hear the sub on 2-channel stereo sources such as CDs, iPod etc. If you read the manual it clearly says the LFE/Bass out should be set to "BOTH" if you want the sub active for both stereo and multi channel sources. To the OP, if you don't have a centre speaker or surrounds are these channels set to "none" in the speaker setup (not small or large)? Some subs also have a low pass filter built-in which can interfere with the LFE output of the amp. If there is, there should be a bypass switch which needs to be on.
I thought direct Sub out only works with Cinema Digital mode

Definitely not. The amp applies the low frequency filter to all audio sources and outputs via the sub pre-out ports. You just need to have it setup correctly for both LFE output (5.1 DD etc.) and low-frequency output. See page 85 of your manual to setup the LFE/Bass out to what you need. The LFE signals output table is for 5.1DD sources and the low-frequency table is for all other audio sources.

Serial connection with the front speakers is only advisable if you do not have a self powered sub and you're connecting it via a separate power amp. Your sub also needs to be able to support this mode via the use of an in-built low pass filter and high-power inputs.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I have tried what feels like "everything" so maybe I just expected more than what was realistic and need to upgrade one of the components in my system? I'm leaning towards the latter and suspect the subwoofer or the receiver to be the main culprits, but I don't want to give up just yet. So please, is there anybody out there that can help me?

*Updated subwoofer-model to the correct name.

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arnyk

· #2 · Feb 18, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaar /t/1518526/need-advice-in-getting-the-most-out-of-my-system#post_24374264

Receiver: Yamaha rx-v663

Speaker-system: Dali Zensor 7 (front), Vokal (center) and 1 (back) with a Yamaha YST-SW315* subwoofer.

PS3, Apple-tv as main sources, both connected with hdmi. I listen to music through airplay with a Spotify Premium account or with Wimp Hi-Fi.

After having bought these components separately over the last few years and tried all I can think of when it comes to tweaking both placement and settings I have come to the conclusion that either I'm doing something completely wrong or there is something unsatisfactory with my set-up.

The main problem I am having is the bass which I feel doesn't deliver as it should. With the Zensor 7 as front-speaker and an added subwoofer one would think that there should be more than plenty to deliver that extra "oumpfh" but I haven't heard that yet :-/

The other details are somewhat relevant, but the thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is the minimal nature of your subwoofer.

The model number you gave is an relevant actual product so I think you got that right. The device so identified is a

Diminishing returns in subwoofers start > $2,000 from value oriented manufacturers such as the brands I mentioned.

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Selden Ball

· #3 · Feb 18, 2014

A related issue which you didn't mention is that our own hearing sensitivity falls off more quickly in the lowest and highest frequencies as you turn down the volume, when compared to our sensitivity to mid-range frequencies. In the olden days, receivers often had a manually-adjustable "Loudness" control which could be used to compensate for this effect. Some modern receivers have either manual tone controls or some form of dynamic equalization which boosts the base (and treble to a lesser extent) as you turn down the master volume control. This might explain why you feel some bass at high volume levels, but not so much at low.

The 663 does have tone controls which you could try. See page 52 of its owner's manual.

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Solaar

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 18, 2014

First of all, thanks to the both of you for taking the time to answer me

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /t/1518526/need-advice-in-getting-the-most-out-of-my-system#post_24374349

The other details are somewhat relevant, but the thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is the minimal nature of your subwoofer.

The model number you gave is an relevant actual product so I think you got that right. The device so identified is a

Diminishing returns in subwoofers start > $2,000 from value oriented manufacturers such as the brands I mentioned.

I got the model-no. of my subwoofer wrong. The correct one is Yamaha YST-SW215, which is even smaller than the one I thought I had.

I would also like to add that the word «oumpfh» was maybe not descriptive in the right way, I’m just looking for more «pressure» in the lower frequencies, I want to feel the .1 when watching movies and I want more bass from my front-speakers when listening to music that demands it. I know my front-speakers are capable of delivering the latter so I’m guessing/hoping there is something I can do with the settings in my receiver to achieve this. However, as my sub apparently is quite small I’m guessing I’d probably get most effect in upgrading that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball /t/1518526/need-advice-in-getting-the-most-out-of-my-system#post_24374370

A related issue which you didn't mention is that our own hearing sensitivity falls off more quickly in the lowest and highest frequencies as you turn down the volume, when compared to our sensitivity to mid-range frequencies. In the olden days, receivers often had a manually-adjustable "Loudness" control which could be used to compensate for this effect. Some modern receivers have either manual tone controls or some form of dynamic equalization which boosts the base (and treble to a lesser extent) as you turn down the master volume control. This might explain why you feel some bass at high volume levels, but not so much at low.

The 663 does have tone controls which you could try. See page 52 of its owner’s manual.

Yes, I was aware of this and have tried the different settings for increased/decreased dynamic range and you are right in the fact that the setting I am currently using is to get the most dynamic range (which is what I normally prefer). However I am quite sure that this problem is not related to that, I am leaning more and more towards the fact that the sub is just to small for my liking and I am considering removing it completely and run the audyssey settings from scratch just to see if that has any positive effect.

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AUDIOandME

· #5 · Feb 21, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaar /t/1518526/need-advice-in-getting-the-most-out-of-my-system#post_24374702

Yes, I was aware of this and have tried the different settings for increased/decreased dynamic range and you are right in the fact that the setting I am currently using is to get the most dynamic range (which is what I normally prefer). However I am quite sure that this problem is not related to that, I am leaning more and more towards the fact that the sub is just to small for my liking and I am considering removing it completely and run the audyssey settings from scratch just to see if that has any positive effect.

Solaar, it might also be worth a mention as to what your x-over settings are. But hey, at least now we know you haven't tried "everything"

. The only reason I comment is because I am facing almost a similar issue, albeit my sub, I would say, is significantly better. However, what I found, is that by setting the receiver to "direct" mode gives me a much greater listening experience for music. The reason I state "almost a similar" issue, is because I am actually quite satisfied with the performance I am getting when using the system for movie watching. I say satisfied, because I know this is pretty much the best which my current components are able to achieve. Plainly put, I need to upgrade.

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