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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is this the correct place to ask this or should it be posted else where? I'm considering getting the MP HDP 2500 from Monster or I'm starting to wonder if a computer UPS (like something from APC) would be better? Could someone please tell me where this should be placed for the best discussion and where or not I should go with something from Monster (like the one I suggested) or is a computer UPS a better alternative?


Thanks in advance...

Flip
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm sorry if this has been discussed to death already... I'm new to the forum and upgrading my current system that I have with some nice (at least in my opinion) gear... getting a new XBR55HX929 and wanted to make sure that all my new equipment is protected... I've been using a belkin surge protector (about $75.00) on my last system but wanted to get something good this time to clean up the power coming in and protect my investment. I've read about some people using a UPS to make sure that their systems just didn't shutoff in the event of a power outage and was wondering if that was a route to go. If you could tell me the best spot on this forum to read up on this, it would be greatly appreciated. I've seen the Monster MP HDP 2500 (sells between $400 - $500 here in Canada) and it looks like a good unit but I thought I'd check with the experts here - just looking for some really good sound advice.


Thanks Colm!
 

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The reason I suggested doing a search is because surge protection is not a simple task. I'll summarize a bit of the information...


Best approach is a whole-house approach. Don't let the surge in the building. All conductive paths need to be protected including AC, phone, cable, TV, etc. If you own your house, that is the way to go. If you cannot do that, then you have no choice but to use point of use devices. All conductive paths into all of your interconnected equipment has to be protected. Point of use devices based on


Most surge protective devices on the market use MOVs. MOVs can create problems that would not otherwise be there is they shunt the surge to the equipment grounding conductor, particularly if you plug different equipment into different surge protective devices. There are series mode devices that don't have that downside, but they protect only AC. Some will tell you that MOV based devices are sacrificial. That is not true. They have a useful life like any other piece of equipment. But properly sized, they will last many, many years.


Only problem with Monster products is price. Your Belkin is probably as effective.


You don't need a UPS unless you have something that is mission critical and needs to stay up. Some people use them for DVRs. You don't need one to protect the bulb if you have a projector.


You don't need to "clean" your power. The power supplies in your equipment already do a good job of that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20836308


There are series mode devices that don't have that downside, but they protect only AC.

I have a SurgeX XF2 Flatpak, what isn't the SurgeX protecting that it should?


Some of the filters on the SurgeX are Advanced Series Mode, Over/Under Voltage regulation, EMI/RFI Filter.
 

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An electrician will install whole-house surge protection for ~$400, cheaper if you supply the Surge Protection Device.


That, plus the Belkin, will be fine. Spend your money wisely.


Colm - I haven't read that a UPS doesn't protect a projector bulb. I thought that was a legit use for a UPS.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer /forum/post/20836958


...what isn't the SurgeX protecting that it should?

It is not a question of what SurgeX should do, just a question of what it does do. SurgeX protects only the AC, just like many MOV based devices. It doesn't not protect any other conductive path into the equipment a surge can take, like cable, satellite, or antenna connections, network connection, phone line, etc. Unprotected cable connections seem to be involved in an inordinate number of cases where equipment protect by a surge protective device are damaged. For the most part, proper grounding of the cable where it enters the house should be adequate, but it seems that installers don't always do this correctly. If a surge does get in on the cable connection, it can get from the cable box to the TV via the cable that connects the two, whether it be HDMI, component, or composite.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad /forum/post/20837214


...I haven't read that a UPS doesn't protect a projector bulb. I thought that was a legit use for a UPS.

Yeah, my opinion goes against conventional wisdom...


As far as I can tell, the cool down cycle is for a few reasons. The first is that the high pressure bulb is very fragile when it is hot. Projectors are easily moved, and often used in portable applications. Cooling down before powering off ensures that the bulb doesn't break when the projector is moved. This really isn't a problem in HT applications. The second is safety. The manufacturers don't want you opening the projector up while the bulb is hot. Again, not a problem in typical HT use. The third is longevity of other parts. Repeated shut down without cool down first can result in thermal degradation of surrounding parts. But an uncooled shutdown once in a while isn't going to have a significant effect. A four reason is to allow a faster restart. It is much harder to restrike a hot bulb than a cool one.


Consider this. When is the bulb under the most stress? As far as I can tell, it is when it is operating. That is when it has the highest internal pressure. That is when the temperature differential between the inside and the outside of envelope is highest. That is when it requires cooling according to the bulb manufacturers specification. What happens when there is an abrupt power failure? Internal pressure drops. The temperature differential goes away. The bulb cools down by conduction, convection and radiation. The result is less stress. So, how is a power failure going to cause the bulb to fail?


Note that there are newer projectors that are designed to shut down immediately and the bulb hasn't changed all that much.


Lastly, having used projectors in classrooms and meetings for many years, and having experienced shutdowns without cooling many times because of power failures, someone pulling the power cable out, and other reasons, I have never experienced a bulb failure, or noticeably reduced bulb life.


If you live somewhere power failures are a daily occurrence, you might want your projector on a UPS. For the rest of us, it isn't necessary.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20837598


It is not a question of what SurgeX should do, just a question of what it does do. SurgeX protects only the AC, just like many MOV based devices. It doesn't not protect any other conductive path into the equipment a surge can take, like cable, satellite, or antenna connections, network connection, phone line, etc. Unprotected cable connections seem to be involved in an inordinate number of cases where equipment protect by a surge protective device are damaged. For the most part, proper grounding of the cable where it enters the house should be adequate, but it seems that installers don't always do this correctly. If a surge does get in on the cable connection, it can get from the cable box to the TV via the cable that connects the two, whether it be HDMI, component, or composite.

The AC is the most common vulnerable and susceptible path for a surge to destroy your electronics though right? The others like HDMI ground loops and coax are less likely to have surges?


So the best way to protect everything is a 'Whole House Surge' protector at the breaker box and a coaxial surge protector outside where it enters the building?


Regarding the coaxial surge protector, how should it be grounded? Should it be grounded to the main house ground or seperately grounded as a individual component? Connect the coaxial surge protector to the main house ground or directly into the ground with a copper rod?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer /forum/post/20839459


The AC is the most common vulnerable and susceptible path for a surge to destroy your electronics though right?

I think it depends on where you live. Where I live, what you say is true. The main source of surges is switching transients generated during the normal operation of the grid. For someone living in Florida, lightning may be the biggest threat, and it can enter on any conductor, even something like sprinkler wiring.
Quote:
So the best way to protect everything is a 'Whole House Surge' protector at the breaker box and a coaxial surge protector outside where it enters the building?

I would say a whole house system (comprised of one or more devices) is the first step if you own your house. In many cases, that should be sufficient. There may be instances in which additional protection downstream of the service entrance is required. In some instances, damaging transients can be generated inside the house, although this threat is highly exaggerated by the vendors of point-of-use surge protective equipment.
Quote:
Regarding the coaxial surge protector, how should it be grounded? Should it be grounded to the main house ground or seperately grounded as a individual component? Connect the coaxial surge protector to the main house ground or directly into the ground with a copper rod?

Ideally it should be located near the AC service entrance and be connected to the main house ground via a short (a few feet) wire. If that is not possible, it must be connected to a separate ground rod which is bonded to the main house ground.
 

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Thanks, Colm.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20840139


I think it depends on where you live. Where I live, what you say is true. The main source of surges is switching transients generated during the normal operation of the grid. For someone living in Florida, lightning may be the biggest threat, and it can enter on any conductor, even something like sprinkler wiring.

My tv and cable box are plugged into a SurgeX, that's all I have for my current Home Theater, the SurgeX is plugged into the wall and the tv and cable box are plugged into the SurgeX. If I was living in Florida what could damage it? I would think I'm totally protected since it's only being powered by the AC?
 

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I just use a power conditioner (a APC-15) as it does surge protection ,cleans signal & maintains a steady even voltage as a power source .(they either boost low voltage or restrict high voltage )

the plug in strip type of surge protectors have a limited life span.

as they have a sacrificial component that trips (IE;destroys itself to save the equipment) , problem with those is small surges degrade the component & there is no way tell if it's still functional. soo say you had one plug in type for a year & had alot of small surges ( there is no way tell if are having a small surges). Who knows if the unit is still offering protection after a years time .

Most all power conditioners have a fail safe surge protectors that resets itself ,much like a circuit breaker does. And they don't have the one time sacrificial component.

Plus you are protected from the small surges just from the fact that is what a power conditioner does is keep the line voltage, outta the wall ,stable at all times & if it spikes,surges or brown outs (low voltage) it shuts off , there by protecting your equipment.

with all my equipment that runs in the thousands of dollars , I trust a conditioner more the a strip surge protector
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer /forum/post/20848348


...what could damage it?

Is the feed from the cable company via coax? If so, surge can enter via coax. Do you have other equipment connected either to the TV or cable box, like an AVR, that aren't plugged into the SurgeX? That is another possible point of entry. All conductive paths to all the connected equipment has to be protected.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy /forum/post/20848425


... as they have a sacrificial component that trips (IE;destroys itself to save the equipment)

That device you are referring to is a MOV. It is not sacrificial. If it destroys itself, it isn't protecting anything. Yes, it has a useful life, but a properly sized MOV will last many, many years. And it is not hard to do because if there is 30 feet or more of wiring between the device and the panel, which is usually the case, the energy available will be something on the order of 90J max. I have MOV based surge protective strips that are well over 10 years old and still functional.


Hate to burst your bubble, but almost all power conditioners use MOVs for surge protection and have the same issues as power strips in that sense. If you want to avoid them, you have to go with something like SurgeX.


Most of the other features don't buy you anything in the way of protection or performance. The power supply manufacturers have already taken into consideration power quality issues in their designs. They do have some features that are convenient though.


Nice system!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20848536


Is the feed from the cable company via coax? If so, surge can enter via coax. Do you have other equipment connected either to the TV or cable box, like an AVR, that aren't plugged into the SurgeX? That is another possible point of entry. All conductive paths to all the connected equipment has to be protected.

I have Comcast Triple Play (CATV, Internet, Phone) through coax. I don't have any other electronics, all I have is a plasma tv and cable box which are both plugged into the SurgeX.


Outside at the service entrance the coax cable is connected to a F to F Ground Block that is connected to the main house ground with a copper wire that goes straight across to it about a foot and a half long.


Would the Citel P8AX09 coaxial surge protector do a better job protecting it?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer /forum/post/20850261


Would...coaxial surge protector do a better job protecting it?

The grounding block grounds the shield of the coax, which is essential. A coaxial surge protector will protect against a surge on the center conductor of the coax.
 

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There is a surge protector I can recommend , the cyberpower 6050. I bought it at a store on a closeout for $10 and figured it was nothing special. After surviving a large surge I decided to open it up to see why it survived when another higher priced protector didn't, and I was pleasantly surprised . They really crammed in the components on this one. The EMI/RFI filtering, MOV, spark gap protection, and others is really well done and should work well for anyone. This is one of those instances where a product is low cost and still performs well.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/pro...050-Black.html
 
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