[MidwestGirl]

I recently had surgey, and my meds are making me a little dizzy - please ignore all grammatical errors!

First, I apologize if I fail to use the right terminology. While I really enjoy music (more than the average person), I’m not quite at the same level as my SO who is an audiophile.

He is in the process of moving into my home. We are renovating several rooms. Currently, we will be locating our surround sound in my family room (plans to construct a media room in my walkout basement in a couple years). Currently, my system consists of a Marantz SR6013 + L/R freestanding B&W 603 S3 speakers + B&W 601 S3 side speakers + B&W LCR6 S2. I purchased the Marantz/ B&W system to replace my less expensive old Onkyo + Polk m20 (I currently have these set up in my hearth room in my kitchen).

My SO will be bringing his nicer Marantz + his B&W 702 S2 + 705 S2 + B&W center speaker (I don’t know the model #).

I want to purchase a new media cabinet for my family room. I need to be able to incorporate my SO’s freestanding 702 S2 in the front of the room. I have a friend who is very active on Houzz - she directed me to look at previous threads addressing this type of situation. However, much of the advice shared on that forum is clearly given by people who care more about aesthetics rather than sound quality. Any people suggested that the person should simply replace their systems with Bose compact speakers + sound bar. Sonos is a popular suggestion. Several people actually made fun of the speakers shown in the photo - “you need to tell your husband it’s time to upgrade from his huge 80s floor speakers !” or “you need to catch up on the technological advances - you can purchase very small speakers that you can hide away!”

There were others who told people to simple bury them in the wall/cabinet.

I really would like to figure out a way to incorporate them with some floor standing cabinets - OR - a wall mounted/floating console.

How far away from walls/other cabinets do the speakers need to be located? If I have a very low media console, could the speakers sit on top of it - or do they have to rest directly on the floor? How far out to the sides can the speakers be located? Example, can the speakers stand at the end of a 126” media console run? If not, how much further in should they be? How far away from corners should the be?

I don’t know if this makes sense. My SO has told me to buy whatever I want for the room - and not worry about the speakers (his thought is that eventually they will be down in the designated media room).

As a surprise, I’d like to have this set up as best as possible now instead of waiting until the media room is built a few years from now. I can’t ask him for help since it’s a surprise. Plus, I assume that many of you have figured out ways to set your systems up so they not only sound good - but so they look good also.

I appreciate your help! Thanks!

 

[Leeliemix]

Here you will probably get the fairly extreme other way where many if not most dont care about looks at all if its at the expense of sound quality. So generally you want the speakers to be at least a foot out from the wall and standing free with nothing boxing it in. Now thats the guideline but its not always whats practical or what people want and there is usually some leeway without too much sacrifice, especially for home theater, but towers can very easily get pretty boomy if boxed in due to the physics of bass.

Good luck with this and your recovery, hopefully you will get some good workable ideas from other posters. (My setup is more practical in living room but with 0 regard for looks)

 

[Mark Beileiter]

Lots of questions, not sure if I can give you lots of answers? But, here goes. I really wouldn't recommend you use an enclosed audio/video cabinet. A simple flat top one would be much better. That way, in the future you can add larger equipment, etc. An open back cabinet is also better, as it lets more air flow around your audio/video equipment, especially for things like amplifiers/AVRs/AVPs, etc. Yes, you can place your speakers at the end of your very wide AV cabinet, but at 10.5', that certainly would be their limit. As for distance from the walls, you should place your speakers at least 2-3' from away from any walls, to give them plenty of space to fully expand their sound-field. I also wouldn't recommend placing your speakers inside your A/V cabinet, except for the centre channel, of course. In a 7.1 setup, your fronts and centre positions are obvious, you surrounds should be just beside or slightly behind the main listening position and the rear surrounds should be at the rear, facing towards the main listening position. Good luck.

 

[mindedc]

I want to purchase a new media cabinet for my family room. I need to be able to incorporate my SO’s freestanding 702 S2 in the front of the room. I have a friend who is very active on Houzz - she directed me to look at previous threads addressing this type of situation. However, much of the advice shared on that forum is clearly given by people who care more about aesthetics rather than sound quality. Any people suggested that the person should simply replace their systems with Bose compact speakers + sound bar. Sonos is a popular suggestion. Several people actually made fun of the speakers shown in the photo - “you need to tell your husband it’s time to upgrade from his huge 80s floor speakers !” or “you need to catch up on the technological advances - you can purchase very small speakers that you can hide away!”

You're not going to find any help for anyone who cares about sound quality at Houzz. People that want sound quality and they want it hidden use "architectural" speakers. This is a fancy name for "in wall" and "in ceiling". They can be designed to blend in with can lights etc.. you can also make them almost completely disappear if you like. You have some fairly expensive speakers already so I wouldn't look further if the floorstanders don't bother you. If you ever want to go this route B&W does make a line of architectural speakers.

I really would like to figure out a way to incorporate them with some floor standing cabinets - OR - a wall mounted/floating console.

How far away from walls/other cabinets do the speakers need to be located? If I have a very low media console, could the speakers sit on top of it - or do they have to rest directly on the floor? How far out to the sides can the speakers be located? Example, can the speakers stand at the end of a 126” media console run? If not, how much further in should they be? How far away from corners should the be?

The 702/705s are floorstanders and built to sound right on the floor. They have rear ports which need some room to "breathe". You probably want them a few feet in from any wall. I wouldn't put them on top of a media console. In general for stereo you want the left and right to form an equalateral triangle with the main listening position. If the width of the media console places them wider it's sort of a preference thing and you can compensate by turning the speakers in to the listener. This effect runs out of gas at some point.

The center can be placed on a media center or inside an opening. You can use Acoustically Transparent cloth or porous metal to cover the cavity the center is hidden in. I've seen plenty of installs where the speaker is hidden behind a door with AT cloth over the panels in the door. There is a link at the bottom of the post to a place to order fabric. The Audyssey room correction needs to be re-run with speakers behind the cloth as its not perfect. The Marantz and Audyssey can compensate for it. You would also want to fill as much of a cavity as possible (think packed in hard) with sound absorbing insulation to prevent a boxy/resonant sound. You can use non-toxic, non-itch denim insulation from your local hardware store for this. They may have to special order. You can also use rock wool but its very itchy and dusty. If you place the center on top of the console, something absorbent under it will make it sound best as will positioning it near the front of the cabinet.

For surrounds they need to be positioned roughly per the diagram below:

I don’t know if this makes sense. My SO has told me to buy whatever I want for the room - and not worry about the speakers (his thought is that eventually they will be down in the designated media room).

As a surprise, I’d like to have this set up as best as possible now instead of waiting until the media room is built a few years from now. I can’t ask him for help since it’s a surprise. Plus, I assume that many of you have figured out ways to set your systems up so they not only sound good - but so they look good also.

I appreciate your help! Thanks!

You are an amazing SO and I'm sure there are many jealous forum members as I write. I'm pretty lucky in that my wife appreciates good sound to the point of accommodating larger speakers in the living room so I've been fortunate enough to be somewhat on the other side of this equation. I do also want my living room to look nice and I know that I can't have a pure temple of sound in my living room and there will be compromises. For example, my mains are not in the best place for bass. Solution was sneak a sub behind the couch. I wanted a more modern cabinet, she said NO to that one! We compromise and it works for us. So far, we've been able to get a happy balance of looks and function. We're actually in the process of speaker shopping right now and the models my wife and I liked ascetically turned out to be a little disappointing acoustically for both of us. We've crossed some off the list and are taking our time looking.

Ultimately, even if it's not perfect acoustically, he will appreciate the thought and care you're putting into this for him instead of junking it and putting in Bose (that sounds terrible).

Good Luck!

P.S. You can find acoustically transparent fabrics here:

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[squared80]

Good comments above. Try to stay away from enclosing any speakers, and keep them away from the walls where possible.

 

[MidwestGirl]

You are an amazing SO and I'm sure there are many jealous forum members as I write. I'm pretty lucky in that my wife appreciates good sound to the point of accommodating larger speakers in the living room so I've been fortunate enough to be somewhat on the other side of this equation. I do also want my living room to look nice and I know that I can't have a pure temple of sound in my living room and there will be compromises. For example, my mains are not in the best place for bass. Solution was sneak a sub behind the couch. I wanted a more modern cabinet, she said NO to that one!

I am having a difficult time trying to find something that it’s too modern. I don’t want a console that‘s made entirely out of glass, or one that has glossy doors/sides/tops. My SO would be happy with a modern console. When I mentioned something about trying to place the front speakers between some wood cabinets, he immediately thought of a huge traditional wood built-in similar to those red oak built-in cabinets popular in the 80s/90s. My thought was simply running some cabinets across the bottom of the wall - while leaving two spaces (one towards the righ and one towards the left) along the run which would allow each of the front speakers to be positioned in the correct spots. While I’d rather have one uninterrupted line of cabinets, that doesn’t seem possible while using this type of speaker.

I’m assuming that the below photos where they’ve used a continuous line of floor standing cabinets/wall mounted cabinets, they either removed the freestanding front speakers/maybe center also if not hidden) just while shooting the photos, or they’re using architectural speakers hidden in the walls/ceilings (or some lesser sound system). I’m wondering if I could make room within the line of cabinets for the two speakers. I have thought about transitioning to a little higher cabinet after “inserting“ the speakers (I won’t be actually inserting the speakers into anything - just placing them between a set of cabinets). If I ran a solid countertop across the cabinets, I could make it jog up where the speakers are placed, and continue over the last set of higher cabinets.

 

[MidwestGirl]

Oh - and I don’t know about being “an amazing SO“ - my SO has had to go through some difficult times due to some serious health issues that I’ve been experiencing. He’s the one that’s pretty amazing!

Here‘s some crude sketches of what I‘d like to do if it won’t look to terrible and/or cause a sound issue. I’m simply trying to make a space between the cabinets where a speaker can be inserted. I could make the custom counter come forward a bit in order to make more room behind the speakers if needed (depending upon how far off of the back wall they need to be). I don’t know how much empty space each speaker would need - I wouldn’t place them right next to the sides of the cabinets. The cabinets on the left and right edge wouldn’t be as deep as the ones in the middle under the TV.

The first two sketches are using floating media cabinets. The last one would use floor standing cabinets.
All other ideas are more than welcome!! I obviously have NO IDEA what I’m doing!

 

[squared80]

You would want those floor-standers to the sides of the TV, not below it. There should be some separation between the center channel and the L and R ones.

 

[RayGuy]

What is the width of the front wall (side wall to side wall)? What is the distance from the wall to your seat? Will you both be sitting center or will someone be sitting off to the side (how far off)?

The diagram posted by @mindedc is a good reference point.

 

[MidwestGirl]

Those sketches were not to scale - sorry. The entire wall is 19’. Currently, I have a 65” tv. I’ve drawn the wall on some paper - not exactly regular graph paper - has dots instead of solid lines. I’ve scaled it so each square of dots = 6”. I then cut up some pieces of furniture to show size. I also made a cut out for the front speakers to show size. Hopefully, this will help!

I don’t know how much room I should leave on each side of the speakers if I incorporate them between cabinets. I also don’t know how far out to the sides they can be - like the third photo where the cabinets (whether floor standing or floating) would be in one continuous line. If they are at the ends, when do I need to “toe” (I think that’s the right term?) them in towards the sitting area?

Do I need a bigger tv? I’ve thought about surprising him with a larger one but am not sure what size works for room. Dimensions are basically 19’ x 15.5’. The ceilings are a little over 9’ tall. Thanks!

 

[MidwestGirl]

What is the width of the front wall (side wall to side wall)? What is the distance from the wall to your seat? Will you both be sitting center or will someone be sitting off to the side (how far off)?

The diagram posted by @mindedc is a good reference point.

I just realized that I didn’t answer the questions re: where will we be sitting. This is how the furniture is currently set up in room. West wall has big window bank - there are two extra wide chairs in front of them. There is a deep sofa with matching ottoman on south wall directly facing TV/media wall. There is a chair + ottoman angled off of east wall by fire place. When the two of us watch movies together, we use the sofa. When my daughters visit, the other seats are also used.
I didn’t really want the TV/media console to be the focal point - but it is the only way the room works since one wall has fireplace, other wall has staircase, and last wall has windows. Hope this helps. The furniture is not to scale - I’m not home right now to measure - just approximation. Thanks!

 

[MidwestGirl]

Also - I’m thinking about building shelves on the left side of the fireplace (fp is on east wall) to store his album collection. He prefers listening to vinyl. I also just purchased the below for his turntable - have an appointment to have it installed next week as a surprise. Is this a good choice? There is a bronze one - it’s about $200 less - is this black one worth the extra money? Thanks.

 

[MidwestGirl]

Also - do I need a subwoofer? I assume I probably do - where should it be placed? Also, what should I buy? Thanks!

 

[philpoe]

19' is a pretty wide wall, so you have of options. Roughly how far away from the screen would the main listening position be?
If you consider the seating area, make an equilateral triangle with the the main listening position as one point, and the on the viewing wall, the other 2 points of the triangle would be roughly where the speakers "should" go. Some would go wider and play with toe-in for the speakers in. YMMV for what works best for you.
This article may help with the topic.

Speaker Placement 201

A deeper look at placing speakers in a room for best possible sound.

www.gikacoustics.com

The B&Ws have a fairly large port on the back IIRC, so you may want to check how much space they need from a wall. You'd either need to mount the center channel or have it rest on the console or stand, but if on the console, bring it to the front so the sound doesn't reflect off the console.

A larger TV would certainly fit, but it's not "needed". Fortunately prices have come down. Nice 85" LEDs can be found for "reasonable" prices. OLEDs of course cost (a lot) more at those sizes.

As far as subwoofer, you'd probably want one (or 2?) for home theater duty. Best placement usually depends on each room, determined by "subwoofer crawl", but generally putting it near a corner gets better results, getting boundary reinforcement from the walls. The 2nd part of the article above describes subwoofer locations.

In theory you could build your consoles around the placement of the speakers and subs, otherwise you could consider bookshelf speakers instead of towers, and making up the low-end performance of the smaller speakers with the subwoofer(s), simplifying your console design.

The entire wall is 19’. Currently, I have a 65” tv. I’ve drawn the wall on some paper - not exactly regular graph paper - has dots instead of solid lines. I’ve scaled it so each square of dots = 6”. I then cut up some pieces of furniture to show size. I also made a cut out for the front speakers to show size. Hopefully, this will help!

Do I need a bigger tv? I’ve thought about surprising him with a larger one but am not sure what size works for room. Dimensions are basically 19’ x 15.5’. The ceilings are a little over 9’ tall. Thanks!

Also - do I need a subwoofer? I assume I probably do - where should it be placed? Also, what should I buy? Thanks!

 

[MidwestGirl]

19' is a pretty wide wall, so you have of options. Roughly how far away from the screen would the main listening position be?
If you consider the seating area, make an equilateral triangle with the the main listening position as one point, and the on the viewing wall, the other 2 points of the triangle would be roughly where the speakers "should" go. Some would go wider and play with toe-in for the speakers in. YMMV for what works best for you.
This article may help with the topic.

Speaker Placement 201

A deeper look at placing speakers in a room for best possible sound.

www.gikacoustics.com

The B&Ws have a fairly large port on the back IIRC, so you may want to check how much space they need from a wall. You'd either need to mount the center channel or have it rest on the console or stand, but if on the console, bring it to the front so the sound doesn't reflect off the console.

A larger TV would certainly fit, but it's not "needed". Fortunately prices have come down. Nice 85" LEDs can be found for "reasonable" prices. OLEDs of course cost (a lot) more at those sizes.

As far as subwoofer, you'd probably want one (or 2?) for home theater duty. Best placement usually depends on each room, determined by "subwoofer crawl", but generally putting it near a corner gets better results, getting boundary reinforcement from the walls. The 2nd part of the article above describes subwoofer locations.

In theory you could build your consoles around the placement of the speakers and subs, otherwise you could consider bookshelf speakers instead of towers, and making up the low-end performance of the smaller speakers with the subwoofer(s), simplifying your console design.

I appreciate your reply! I will read the article + measure distance to where we typically sit on the couch.

I guess I should have clarified my question regarding TV size - I’m fine with a 65” TV. HOWEVER - I’m female! I would like to receive some male perspectives on whether I should replace it with something bigger. Thanks!

 

[philpoe]

Looking back over your sketches and layout, given the distance from screen to MLP, and the fact that the chairs by the window need to get some aspect of the sound field, I'd suggest trying to place the front L/R speakers as wide as possible, minimizing toe-in. (most like your 3rd sketch in post #10).
Looking at your sketches, is the audio equipment going inside the closed cabinets? If so, there may be heat concerns for the AVR.
Where is the staircase in the floorplan? Is that the only entry way into the room? I'm asking to get an idea of where the sub may go, and how much contiguous space it has to deal with.

You may want to check in the 2-channel audio forum for opinions on the turntable cartridge/stylus

2-Channel Audio

For chat on 2-channel stereo audio. Setups, concepts, likes, needs, etc.

www.avsforum.com

You're a TV watcher that happens to be a female? Got it! lol
For a wall that large, and now seeing your scale of the seating arrangements, if $2K+ fits your budget, the Sony 85" at Costco would probably be a great addition. It's the same as the X900H and was at a pretty good price. I have to imagine there's some scarcity on TVs as there is for AVRs.
If it helps, here's a site that has analysis and reviews of TVs

The 5 Best 80-83-85 Inch TVs - Winter 2023: Reviews

If you find the LG C2 OLED too expensive, you can still get an excellent overall TV with the Samsung QN85QN90BAFXZA. It's a slightly larger TV than the LG, making it the best 85-inch TV you can get if you care about the biggest size possible.

www.rtings.com

I just realized that I didn’t answer the questions re: where will we be sitting. This is how the furniture is currently set up in room.
... other wall has staircase

I also just purchased the below for his turntable - have an appointment to have it installed next week as a surprise. Is this a good choice? There is a bronze one - it’s about $200 less - is this black one worth the extra money? Thanks.

I guess I should have clarified my question regarding TV size - I’m fine with a 65” TV. HOWEVER - I’m female!

 

[RayGuy]

I just realized that I didn’t answer the questions re: where will we be sitting. This is how the furniture is currently set up in room. West wall has big window bank - there are two extra wide chairs in front of them. There is a deep sofa with matching ottoman on south wall directly facing TV/media wall. There is a chair + ottoman angled off of east wall by fire place. When the two of us watch movies together, we use the sofa. When my daughters visit, the other seats are also used.
I didn’t really want the TV/media console to be the focal point - but it is the only way the room works since one wall has fireplace, other wall has staircase, and last wall has windows. Hope this helps. The furniture is not to scale - I’m not home right now to measure - just approximation. Thanks!

Sorry for the late reply, was out of town.

At 19 feet, you have plenty of options for placement. However, I tend to like the third option, with all the cabinetry between the speakers. This gives you a lot more room to play with positioning, whereas with the other options, the speakers are stuck in whatever position your cabinets require. It also gives you the ability to place one or two subwoofers in that same space, either inside or outside of the speakers, depending on the performance of each. More flexibility is better because the sound can vary quite drastically from position to position, especially when it comes to bass reproduction (i.e. sub positioning).

As to the cartridge, I might expand my search a bit, as those Ortofons are known to be a bit analytical in nature, which would not necessarily be a great match for the B&Ws. I would try to find a cartridge with a warmer sound signature, but that's my taste and your hubby's taste may certainly differ. Also, different turntable tonearms require different characteristics from their cartridges, so selecting the right one can be a bit tricky. Try googling the turntable it will be going into and seeing what folks have to say about which cartridges perform well or not with it. Better yet, contact the turntable manufacturer and give them your criteria and see what they recommend! Also, set-up can be a PITA, so if you are a newbie, you might want it professionally done.

This may give you some direction: Under $1,000 moving magnet cartridge shootout ,11 cartridges reviewed! – Sound Advice Vinyl

Cartridges are a can of worms ... tread lightly and don't overdo it.

The more flexibility you have in the plan, the better, as there are no guarantees how things will sound in any given position. You need to experiment and find the best positioning ... then make it work.