[gmanhdtv]

Title says it all! What is the expert and final opinion of color space to output from the VP50 to the JVC RS1.....


RGB

4:2:2

4:4:4


Lots of conflicting views on the RS1 forum and for us "VP50 Virgins" I would really appreciate the opinion and justification of choice from those who are trully experts in the processor to projector world.


Thanks


Glenn

 

[shamus]

This will be interesting...


I've been searching for an answer to this myself and have asked everyone. I assume you've read my posts in the RS1's thread?


Here's a summary of what I've found.

Most will agree, ideally, 4:2:2 is the best... however:

-JVC tech says 4:2:2

-JVC rep says RGB

-A very respected member says RGB or 4:4:4 due to a possible bug in the VP50 that has a noticeable reduction in horizontal chroma resolution.


Good luck!

 

[gmanhdtv]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus /forum/post/14262234


This will be interesting...


I've been searching for an answer to this myself and have asked everyone. I assume you've read my posts in the RS1's thread?


Here's a summary of what I've found.

Most will agree, ideally, 4:2:2 is the best... however:

-JVC tech says 4:2:2

-JVC rep says RGB

-A very respected member says RGB or 4:4:4 due to a possible bug in the VP50 that has a noticeable reduction in horizontal chroma resolution.


Good luck!

Exactly the reason for my post!

 

[gmanhdtv]

I guess we have no expert opinions on this matter, which is surprising considering how many experts we have on AVS? I had hoped for a real answer to this question from either Josh at DVDO or Tom at JVC or even help from some of the calibrators on the forum.


I love my RS1 and I know many don't like DVDO products but I know it can do the job to reach "near" perfection. If JVC chose a VP50 chassis to design their own branded VP, there must be settings that owners of the VP50 or VP50Pro can use to extract a more refined image???


I really love this forum, but it appears that those willing to "help" are starting to shy away and of course there are others that simply say "do a search"!


Shamus was right, getting an opinion on this would be interesting, IF WE COULD GET ONE!!!

 

[shamus]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanhdtv /forum/post/14282411


I guess we have no expert opinions on this matter, which is surprising considering how many experts we have on AVS? I had hoped for a real answer to this question from either Josh at DVDO or Tom at JVC or even help from some of the calibrators on the forum.


I love my RS1 and I know many don't like DVDO products but I know it can do the job to reach "near" perfection. If JVC chose a VP50 chassis to design their own branded VP, there must be settings that owners of the VP50 or VP50Pro can use to extract a more refined image???


I really love this forum, but it appears that those willing to "help" are starting to shy away and of course there are others that simply say "do a search"!


Shamus was right, getting an opinion on this would be interesting, IF WE COULD GET ONE!!!

Most have given their opinion as 4:2:2. The only thing that would change is if the RS-1 does better with a different one for whatever reason.


Tstites would be the best person for this but unfortunately he doesn't respond to my Emails. You could try sending him a PM.

 

[Gary Murrell]

4:2:2

-Gary

 

[gmanhdtv]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell /forum/post/14283387


4:2:2

-Gary

Thanks Gary

I gained a wealth of knowledge from your reply.

 

[gmanhdtv]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus /forum/post/14262234


This will be interesting...


I've been searching for an answer to this myself and have asked everyone. I assume you've read my posts in the RS1's thread?


Here's a summary of what I've found.

Most will agree, ideally, 4:2:2 is the best... however:

-JVC tech says 4:2:2

-JVC rep says RGB

-A very respected member says RGB or 4:4:4 due to a possible bug in the VP50 that has a noticeable reduction in horizontal chroma resolution.


Good luck!

Well Shamus, I guess we both will still have to wonder as there seems to be no "official" feedback from JVC or DVDO. We tried, but those in the know do not seem to be willing to share

 

[shamus]

There are only two people here that would know for sure.


[email protected] and Tstites.


Josh will only say what JVC recommends, which is RGB.


Tstites also said RGB but never answered any questions after that.


You could try sending Tstites a PM and hope he answers... It seems he was more than willing to answer questions before I purchased the product but once I got it, I was on my own.... good luck!

 

[sspears]



Quote:
Most will agree, ideally, 4:2:2 is the best... however:

Most don't have access to proper test patterns either. You should use 4:4:4 or RGB. 4:2:2 rolls off high frequency chroma resolution in the horizontal direction.


I use RGB on the Samsung 800B. When I had the Marantz VP11S1 (and S2), I also used RGB. With the BenQ W10000 I used 4:4:4 and forced 601.

 

[shamus]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears /forum/post/14337239


Most don't have access to proper test patterns either. You should use 4:4:4 or RGB. 4:2:2 rolls off high frequency chroma resolution in the horizontal direction.


I use RGB on the Samsung 800B. When I had the Marantz VP11S1 (and S2), I also used RGB. With the BenQ W10000 I used 4:4:4 and forced 601.

Thanks Stacey. In case you didn't know, you were the respected member I was referring too but didn't want to call you out.

What are the negative effects of chroma roll offs?

 

[sspears]



Quote:
What are the negative effects of chroma roll offs?

Fine chroma detail will be a bit softer. This may not even be visible w/o a test pattern. Since I prefer to eek the most out of my image, I avoid the 4:2:2 output on the VP50/50Pro.


Some confusion may be due to the importance of 4:2:2 out of some products. Let me try and clear that up. Some products use the HDMI transmitter chip to color convert from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 or RGB. The transmitter, from Silicon Image, clips when you use this feature. This is why I often recommend 4:2:2. The Toshiba HD DVD players is a great example of this. ABT was made aware of this problem prior to the VP30s release and decided against using the HDMI transmitter to perform this conversion. They do it themselves. This is why 4:4:4 and RGB out of the VP30, 50 and 50Pro are good to go.


I use a series of patterns to figure out the best signal path. A special ramp, luma and chroma bursts and color bars.

 

[shamus]

Thanks Stacey.

Would there be any benefit to using RGB over YCbCr 4:4:4????

 

[dhnjp1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears /forum/post/14340002


Some confusion may be due to the importance of 4:2:2 out of some products. Let me try and clear that up. Some products use the HDMI transmitter chip to color convert from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 or RGB. The transmitter, from Silicon Image, clips when you use this feature. This is why I often recommend 4:2:2.

So if a source correctly converts YCbCr to RGB, is there any reason not to use RGB out from the source? Any visible loss of information?


(off topic) What I'd really like to know is if there would be any benefit from spending money to "force" YCbCr output from a Blu-Ray HDMI source to a Lumagen HDP/HDQ DVI-D input. Thanks.


--Dan