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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

First time poster, although I've been lurking here for quite a while. In process of trying to complete my theater/media room in my basement. My front stage is set with a pair of Revel F208's and a C208. Will most likely be doing in-walls for my surrounds and in-ceiling for atmos. End goal is a 7.2.4 system. The point of this post of course is trying to determine my subwoofer choice. As stated, this is in my basement, so concrete floor with carpet. The total square footage of the basement is approx 1000 sq ft. The main listening/viewing area is about 760 sq ft, with an adjoining 275 sq ft game room. The basement has 7.5 ft ceilings, so in total, approx 7700 cu ft, a large space. The room will probably be used 50/50 music/movies with some live sports thrown in there as well.

Back in my younger days I was into car stereo competitions and had 3 15" JL Audio's powered by Precision Power amps that could hit 145 db. My ears can't handle that kind of pressure anymore, but I know I would like to achieve that same feeling of having the bass hit me hard in the chest when listening to old school (for me) hip-hop or electronic music, and feeling those explosions when watching movies. From reading on these forums, it sounds like that may be hard to accomplish in a basement.

I do know I want to go dual subs. I have been checking out SVS (PB-4000 and PB16), Rythmik (FV15HP, FV18 & G25HP) and PSA (V1812 and S3612). And just before I started typing this post I came across the JTR Captivator RS1. Ideally, I think I'm willing to spend $1500-2000 per sub. I know a couple of those I have listed here are slightly more than that. My philosophy though is to "buy once, cry once." I'd rather buy "the best" now, instead of getting something lesser and than need/want to upgrade later. I would prefer something that isn't too big physically, which is why I haven't mentioned anything with dual subs (other than the PSA S3612, which is the basically the same size as the rest I am looking into).

Any thoughts/recommendations you all could provide would be greatly appreciated. First hand experience with any of the subs would be helpful. Any that I am missing that I should consider? I have been looking at so many I am having a hard time making a decision. If I have to spend slightly over budget and only buy one sub now, and save up for a second one down the road, I'm willing to do that as well.

Thanks,
Jeff
 

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Hi all,

First time poster, although I've been lurking here for quite a while. In process of trying to complete my theater/media room in my basement. My front stage is set with a pair of Revel F208's and a C208. Will most likely be doing in-walls for my surrounds and in-ceiling for atmos. End goal is a 7.2.4 system. The point of this post of course is trying to determine my subwoofer choice. As stated, this is in my basement, so concrete floor with carpet. The total square footage of the basement is approx 1000 sq ft. The main listening/viewing area is about 760 sq ft, with an adjoining 275 sq ft game room. The basement has 7.5 ft ceilings, so in total, approx 7700 cu ft, a large space. The room will probably be used 50/50 music/movies with some live sports thrown in there as well.

Back in my younger days I was into car stereo competitions and had 3 15" JL Audio's powered by Precision Power amps that could hit 145 db. My ears can't handle that kind of pressure anymore, but I know I would like to achieve that same feeling of having the bass hit me hard in the chest when listening to old school (for me) hip-hop or electronic music, and feeling those explosions when watching movies. From reading on these forums, it sounds like that may be hard to accomplish in a basement.

I do know I want to go dual subs. I have been checking out SVS (PB-4000 and PB16), Rythmik (FV15HP, FV18 & G25HP) and PSA (V1812 and S3612). And just before I started typing this post I came across the JTR Captivator RS1. Ideally, I think I'm willing to spend $1500-2000 per sub. I know a couple of those I have listed here are slightly more than that. My philosophy though is to "buy once, cry once." I'd rather buy "the best" now, instead of getting something lesser and than need/want to upgrade later. I would prefer something that isn't too big physically, which is why I haven't mentioned anything with dual subs (other than the PSA S3612, which is the basically the same size as the rest I am looking into).

Any thoughts/recommendations you all could provide would be greatly appreciated. First hand experience with any of the subs would be helpful. Any that I am missing that I should consider? I have been looking at so many I am having a hard time making a decision. If I have to spend slightly over budget and only buy one sub now, and save up for a second one down the road, I'm willing to do that as well.

Thanks,
Jeff
For personal experience the person that has heard most if not all of these subs is @muscles. Personally I would stay ported in that size room and go with a FV18 paper cone. I have not heard the PSA TV1812 so cannot comment nor I have I seen any performance data on it. Sealed wise the G25HP and the RS1 would give you most output. The RS1 with its form factor and output is hard to beat.
 

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@JeffSlay See how easy that was?

Based on your room size, and desire for teh good ol' days of car audio "thump", ported is probably your best bet unless you like large amounts (dollars and quantity) of sealed subs. I haven't heard the TV1812 but I have heard the TV3612. I think the FV18 or the TV18 (duals) will most likely get you what you are after. Keep in mind we are all guessing what we think you want ;) I do know the FV18's output is pretty intense even in a large room. Mine is almost double yours and a single FV18 will make its presence known. I would expect the TV18 to be similar but as @imureh mentioned above, there aren't much in performance info for the TV series. I have done sweeps with the TV3612 in my comparisons and the TV18 series, based on the TV36's output, should be similar to the FV18 in output. Rythmik has a plethora of tuning options via their amps however so dialing them in is full of options/choices that the TV does not offer. I cant comment on the sealed options as my experiences are all based on ported except for a sealed dual 10" box I had in the back of my CJ-7. It was ok. The quad 15's in the 14 cubic foot ported box that replaced it were much better ;)

As @rhelliott2 advised above, get on the phone/email and hit Enrico, then Tom, and then Jeff (order is not important) and get some boxes on a truck headed your way. The only real answer will be the one you have after hearing them in your room. Yes, you will incur return shipping. Its part of the process. SVS has "free" return shipping if you buy into that sort of thing.
 

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You sound like a guy who should not give up the goat buying prefabricated subwoofers. Why not drop a couple 15 inch in some boxes, and goose them up with some bridged crown XLI amplifiers. When you in a big room.. and you want chest thumping bass..... there really is no other way.... but to go your own way.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the input. This helps me narrow it down some.

@Deaf-Forever I reached out to Tom at PSA and he made me aware of a new sub that he is releasing within the next couple months, the TV2112. A 21" woofer in a "small" (as small as small can get for a woofer that size) vented enclosure. And it sounds like output may approach something similar to the TV3612. Needless to say, this peaked my interest. I'll plan to reach out to Rythmik and JTR as well.

@johnplayerson I appreciate the thought. There are some things I tend to let the "experts" handle, and building speakers is one of them. If I built something and wasn't pleased with the result, I'd be stuck with it. At least if I purchase something and don't like it, I have the chance to return it and go another route.
 

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^^
JeffSlay,
If you buy the PSA TV2112 during the pre-order pricing period the cost is usually very close to DIY pricing. Im getting dual S42ipal's at pre-order pricing from PSA extremely close to Josh Ricci's estimate to DIY a pair when he measured the same B&C 21" Ipal drivers, same SpeakerPower amp in a SMALLER ugly DIY box for data_bass. PLUS it looks better than what a newb would make, has a 5 year warranty, amazing return and upgrade policies, world class CS and DSP done by one of the best in the industry.

Tim
 

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^^
JeffSlay,
If you buy the PSA TV2112 during the pre-order pricing period the cost is usually very close to DIY pricing. Im getting dual S42ipal's at pre-order pricing from PSA extremely close to Josh Ricci's estimate to DIY a pair when he measured the same B&C 21" Ipal drivers, same SpeakerPower amp in a SMALLER ugly DIY box for data_bass. PLUS it looks better than what a newb would make, has a 5 year warranty, amazing return and upgrade policies, world class CS and DSP done by one of the best in the industry.

Tim
Another perk of working with Tom V is that if you aren't happy with it, he will work with you to help you find the right sub for you. The PSA subs are definitely worth the listen because I believe they are the only ones in your list using PA drivers. These have a different sound, IMO, than other subs with more traditional drivers. Some really love the super clean sound of PA drivers and some want a bit more "thick" sound the more traditional drivers provide.
 

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Thanks everyone, I appreciate the input. This helps me narrow it down some.

@Deaf-Forever I reached out to Tom at PSA and he made me aware of a new sub that he is releasing within the next couple months, the TV2112. A 21" woofer in a "small" (as small as small can get for a woofer that size) vented enclosure. And it sounds like output may approach something similar to the TV3612. Needless to say, this peaked my interest. I'll plan to reach out to Rythmik and JTR as well.

@johnplayerson I appreciate the thought. There are some things I tend to let the "experts" handle, and building speakers is one of them. If I built something and wasn't pleased with the result, I'd be stuck with it. At least if I purchase something and don't like it, I have the chance to return it and go another route.
Go PSA. Toms in a class of his own. You’ve got a large space - I’d get the biggest sub you can. And, I’d get at least 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Thanks everyone, I appreciate the input. This helps me narrow it down some.

@Deaf-Forever I reached out to Tom at PSA and he made me aware of a new sub that he is releasing within the next couple months, the TV2112. A 21" woofer in a "small" (as small as small can get for a woofer that size) vented enclosure. And it sounds like output may approach something similar to the TV3612. Needless to say, this peaked my interest. I'll plan to reach out to Rythmik and JTR as well.

@johnplayerson I appreciate the thought. There are some things I tend to let the "experts" handle, and building speakers is one of them. If I built something and wasn't pleased with the result, I'd be stuck with it. At least if I purchase something and don't like it, I have the chance to return it and go another route.
So if they sent you the subwoofer in three pieces, and you had to actually use about 15 screws to assemble the box, the woofer and the amplifier... that would be too much for you?. They have some good ready to assemble stuff out there that will not only save you wasting thousands of dollars on total prefab... but will leave that EXPERT stuff far in the rear view mirror.
 

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So if they sent you the subwoofer in three pieces, and you had to actually use about 15 screws to assemble the box, the woofer and the amplifier... that would be too much for you?. They have some good ready to assemble stuff out there that will not only save you wasting thousands of dollars on total prefab... but will leave that EXPERT stuff far in the rear view mirror.
Any suggestions on a company to go with here? I currently looking at a couple of the soon to be revised psa v1512s.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So if they sent you the subwoofer in three pieces, and you had to actually use about 15 screws to assemble the box, the woofer and the amplifier... that would be too much for you?. They have some good ready to assemble stuff out there that will not only save you wasting thousands of dollars on total prefab... but will leave that EXPERT stuff far in the rear view mirror.
Excuse my ignorance, as I have not looked into doing anything DIY speaker wise, but wouldn't the subs need to be tuned? Or would that be handled by Audyssey, REW, etc.?
 

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Excuse my ignorance, as I have not looked into doing anything DIY speaker wise, but wouldn't the subs need to be tuned? Or would that be handled by Audyssey, REW, etc.?
The design is where the sub is tuned. You just assemble and plug it in. That is it. Run audyssey too if you have it.

If you want to better integrate it with the rest of your system, that is where REW would come in.
 
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The design is where the sub is tuned. You just assemble and plug it in. That is it. Run audyssey too if you have it.

If you want to better integrate it with the rest of your system, that is where REW would come in.
Got it. Thanks for educating me.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
^^
JeffSlay,
If you buy the PSA TV2112 during the pre-order pricing period the cost is usually very close to DIY pricing. Im getting dual S42ipal's at pre-order pricing from PSA extremely close to Josh Ricci's estimate to DIY a pair when he measured the same B&C 21" Ipal drivers, same SpeakerPower amp in a SMALLER ugly DIY box for data_bass. PLUS it looks better than what a newb would make, has a 5 year warranty, amazing return and upgrade policies, world class CS and DSP done by one of the best in the industry.

Tim
Another (maybe stupid) question, what benefit does an ipal driver have over a "normal" driver?
 

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Another (maybe stupid) question, what benefit does an ipal driver have over a "normal" driver?
I can talk about about the Ipal vs the Neo driver. The Neo driver is the "12" series driver for PSA. The difference in these two is very minimal. Tom has constantly said the Ipal "may" get you about 1dB extra output and that there really is no value to it. The Ipal is a bragging rights driver. Both are insane for the average user.

Both of these are considered PA or professional audio level drivers. As to the differences between these and typical sub drivers I'm not all that sure. I think the biggest differences are higher efficiency ratings and stronger motors.
 
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Another (maybe stupid) question, what benefit does an ipal driver have over a "normal" driver?
Like most things in life, its bit better than the other one. How much is up for debate. Better thermal and power handling as well as xMax, but its tiny.
 
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JeffSlay and pheare,
Both of you are looking at new/updated models from PSA so the pre-order price is SOO aggressive that it approaches DIY value. Price out the same B&C driver from the PSA sub, ICE power amp and similar enclosure. There will be very little difference to a PSA preorder price except it won't look as good, won't have a 5 year warrant and probably won't have DSP customized by an expert depending on what kit you're looking at. DIY and used will always have tons of value but I've never seen margins as tiny as Tom is willing to accept when first launching a PSA product.
Tim
 
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