[happygodavid]

Just bought a townhouse, and our basement will have the HT. Our setup will take up about half the room (19 X 21). The other half will be an office. It's not ideal, but I like that we'll be able to have a fire going while watching a movie. Here's the problem so far. My surrounds are a bit loud beamy, so right now, using just 5.1, surround effects sound like they're coming from "A SPEAKER!!" I've tried moving them to the rear wall, but I didn't like the lack of left/right separation.

Here's the deal, though; I just bought 4 B&W in-ceiling CCM665 speakers, and I'll be installing them shortly. I'm hoping they'll help with front/back and left/right separation. Before I cut holes, I need to know a few things: First, when I install the Atmos speakers, should I be moving the right ones away from the right and rear walls so as to avoid "corner boom?" If that's the case, I'll be missing out on that L/R separation I'm hoping to gain, right? Or should I just go for it and install them all at 45 degrees in front of and behind the MLP, lining them all up with the front L/Rs? Will that help with L/R separation? The other thing is that I'm not sure about the angle at which these speakers fire, and they're not adjustable, so once I install them, that's where they're staying.

Also, as an aside, I do have to more floor speakers I could potentially use as rear surrounds. My Marantz SR6013 supports them; I'd just have to get a cheap amp to power them. Could that help?

Any suggestions on helping with L/R separation and in-ceiling installation would be great! Thanks in advance!

 

[RayGuy]

Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.

As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.

 

[happygodavid]

Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.

As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.

Thanks so much for the response.

I've racked my brain trying to think of another layout option; I just cant' think of one, shy of putting the tv over the fireplace, and I'd rather deal with less-than-ideal sound than having the tv that high. I'll try your suggestions on raising the surrounds and re-running Audyssey. Any suggestion on the placement of the Atmos speakers? Should I go for the "as wide as possible" approach, while keeping the right speakers, say, at least a foot from the walls to avoid corner echo/boom? Thanks again.

 

[LNEWoLF]

Just bought a townhouse, and our basement will have the HT. Our setup will take up about half the room (19 X 21). The other half will be an office. It's not ideal, but I like that we'll be able to have a fire going while watching a movie. Here's the problem so far. My surrounds are a bit loud beamy, so right now, using just 5.1, surround effects sound like they're coming from "A SPEAKER!!" I've tried moving them to the rear wall, but I didn't like the lack of left/right separation.

Here's the deal, though; I just bought 4 B&W in-ceiling CCM665 speakers, and I'll be installing them shortly. I'm hoping they'll help with front/back and left/right separation. Before I cut holes, I need to know a few things: First, when I install the Atmos speakers, should I be moving the right ones away from the right and rear walls so as to avoid "corner boom?" If that's the case, I'll be missing out on that L/R separation I'm hoping to gain, right? Or should I just go for it and install them all at 45 degrees in front of and behind the MLP, lining them all up with the front L/Rs? Will that help with L/R separation? The other thing is that I'm not sure about the angle at which these speakers fire, and they're not adjustable, so once I install them, that's where they're staying.

Also, as an aside, I do have to more floor speakers I could potentially use as rear surrounds. My Marantz SR6013 supports them; I'd just have to get a cheap amp to power them. Could that help?

Any suggestions on helping with L/R separation and in-ceiling installation would be great! Thanks in advance!

Can you post a picture of the room (wall) 180 deg (opposite) the fireplace.

 

[RayGuy]

Thanks so much for the response.

I've racked my brain trying to think of another layout option; I just cant' think of one, shy of putting the tv over the fireplace, and I'd rather deal with less-than-ideal sound than having the tv that high. I'll try your suggestions on raising the surrounds and re-running Audyssey. Any suggestion on the placement of the Atmos speakers? Should I go for the "as wide as possible" approach, while keeping the right speakers, say, at least a foot from the walls to avoid corner echo/boom? Thanks again.

As stated above:

Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.

Your Audyssey will lower the gain on the speakers that are closer to the wall intersection to balance them with the rest of the system. Your fronts and rears have the same problem, BTW.

 

[happygodavid]

Can you post a picture of the room (wall) 180 deg (opposite) the fireplace.

Here ya go! I've considered moving the tv and center channel there, but it's not ideal, as I don't want to be looking up at the tv. Mainly, though, running wires would require a lot of drywall cutting/patching, and I really don't want to mess with that. In my current lengthwise setup, I can run wires for Atmos speakers from the closet behind the tv. Maybe that's not where you were headed, but figured I'd explain the situation. There's just not an ideal setup; trying to make the best of what I've got. And what's funny is that I told my wife what I was doing (posting questions about setup on here), and she laughed, rolled her eyes, and said, "What difference does it make where you put all these speakers?? It sounds amazing! This isn't a criticism, but don't let your quest for perfection prevent you from enjoying this amazing setup we've got." She has a point...

 

[LNEWoLF]

Here ya go! I've considered moving the tv and center channel there, but it's not ideal, as I don't want to be looking up at the tv. Mainly, though, running wires would require a lot of drywall cutting/patching, and I really don't want to mess with that. In my current lengthwise setup, I can run wires for Atmos speakers from the closet behind the tv. Maybe that's not where you were headed, but figured I'd explain the situation. There's just not an ideal setup; trying to make the best of what I've got. And what's funny is that I told my wife what I was doing (posting questions about setup on here), and she laughed, rolled her eyes, and said, "What difference does it make where you put all these speakers?? It sounds amazing! This isn't a criticism, but don't let your quest for perfection prevent you from enjoying this amazing setup we've got." She has a point...

?

 

[happygodavid]

?

Oh, geez. OPPOSITE wall. Here ya go. Imgur won't let me post again for a bit.

Edit: It would be a great wall for a theater. But it's the wall we share with neighbors. It has cinder blocks separating us, but still... Plus, my wife wants to sit by the fire in the winter while we watch things.

 

[RayGuy]

Well, upon re-reading your initial post, it dawned on me that the fireplace wall could be usable IF you invested in a MantleMount device (similar products from other manufacturers). You would have to attach the center channel to the bottom of the mount/TV, so it traveled with the TV (may need a more narrow option for the center channel speaker). The side speakers could sit to the right and left of the fireplace (what speakers are they, btw?).

https://www.mantelmount.com/collections/all?msclkid=422ed9a146921d6bdc5a84f48fd64c07#pull-down-tv-mounts

Another advantage would be that the TV would no longer be opposite the windows and their inherent glare off the screen.

Just another option to consider before you start cutting holes.

 

[m0j0]

If you went with a projector and pull down screen (manual or electric), it would open up a couple options for you. Option 1 would be above the fireplace and option 2 would be above the outside double doors (you would want to put up some blackout curtains or something to block the light though). With Option 2, you would only need to flip the chairs and you could keep the couch in the same spot I think. The AVR and other components could stay where they are and you would just have to run speaker wire for LCR and hdmi and power to the projector.

 

[happygodavid]

Well, upon re-reading your initial post, it dawned on me that the fireplace wall could be usable IF you invested in a MantleMount device (similar products from other manufacturers). You would have to attach the center channel to the bottom of the mount/TV, so it traveled with the TV (may need a more narrow option for the center channel speaker). The side speakers could sit to the right and left of the fireplace (what speakers are they, btw?).



https://www.mantelmount.com/collect...146921d6bdc5a84f48fd64c07#pull-down-tv-mounts



Another advantage would be that the TV would no longer be opposite the windows and their inherent glare off the screen.



Just another option to consider before you start cutting holes.

Man, that would be great. Having just bought a house, though, I can’t spend any more money right now. Otherwise, I’d consider it, even with having to cut drywall to run things. As for the glare, it’s not an issue with blackout blinds and curtains. Thanks for the link, tho, as that could come in handy down the road.

 

[happygodavid]

If you went with a projector and pull down screen (manual or electric), it would open up a couple options for you. Option 1 would be above the fireplace and option 2 would be above the outside double doors (you would want to put up some blackout curtains or something to block the light though). With Option 2, you would only need to flip the chairs and you could keep the couch in the same spot I think. The AVR and other components could stay where they are and you would just have to run speaker wire for LCR and hdmi and power to the projector.

I like the idea of flipping the room and using a screen. We just can’t buy anymore “stuff” right now, having just bought a house. I’ll definitely ponder that for the future, tho.

 

[ratbuddy]

I would try to set up the Atmos speakers in such a spacing that they'll still be good when you hopefully eventually switch your setup to the wall that has the fireplace. Do you have a floor plan available? I'd like to see the dimensions and layout of the room.

 

[happygodavid]

I would try to set up the Atmos speakers in such a spacing that they'll still be good when you hopefully eventually switch your setup to the wall that has the fireplace. Do you have a floor plan available? I'd like to see the dimensions and layout of the room.

I chatted with my wife about placing the tv over the fireplace, and she didn't like the idea, even with the mount that would lower it. The main objections is being unable to enjoy a fire (historically, we have used fireplaces a ton) while watching tv/gaming. I'm kinda with her on that, but even if I wasn't, I want her to enjoy the room, too. So, unfortunately, I think we're stuck with what we've got while we're in this townhouse. The way I'm thinking of it is this; it's better than cramming up the living room with speakers (plus, the LR has its own setup problems), and when we buy another house down the road, I'll prioritize having a better space for a HT. It is what it is.

That having been said, I did a rough sketch of the room layout to get suggestions on going with what we've got. Attached is an image of the whole room. Also, a closeup of the HT area with a few options for Atmos speakers. For the top fronts, I'm debating between going further out (in line with the front mains) or slightly inward, maybe even just slightly inward for the top front right, so it won't be jammed up against the wall. For the top rears, I'm debating the same thing, but there's the additional concern about the back wall, so I'm considering moving them a bit inward and forward, even though they'll be slightly off their 45 degree axis. Suggestions on which spots to mount these guys?

 

[m0j0]

If you are thinking you may sell the townhome down the road, I would return the in ceiling speakers and buy some wall or ceiling mounted speakers, as it would be easier to patch up a few small holes vs the big speaker holes you will make with in ceilings. If you wall mount as front heights and rear heights, that would more easily let you flip the room around if you wanted to go with a projector down the road.

 

[emcdade]

You could also raise your front speakers up with some stands or concrete blocks so that their dispersion pattern bounces off the ceiling. This will give that nice overhead effect when helicopters are on screen without having to make holes in your ceiling.

 

[SouthernCA]

Well, your L&R speakers are artificially limited in separation, due to the width of the wall. That is just a limitation you will have to live with, unless you change the room layout (TV above fireplace, not recommended). So, with that limitation in mind, your Atmos speakers should align with the front speakers, per Dolby spec.



As to your rear speakers, the problem is their proximity to the seated ears, i.e. speaker in your ear syndrome. They are just too close to you for a comfortable experience. My suggestion would be to raise them a foot above your seated ears, so your seated ears are more off-axis, and each speaker's sound radiation is not blocked by the high backed chairs and your heads. Once you have some additional height, then re-play with positioning, with more distance as a +. Also, for every new positioning, be sure to re-run Audyssey. You want the rears to blend in, not draw attention to themselves by being too near and too loud.

I have had my TV above fireplace for the last 10 years. No problem. It does not even get warm. And looks great.

 

[happygodavid]

Update: After looking at all the suggestions here and chatting with my wife, we decided to set the room up as though we're going to get a sectional (which we are, once the dust settles on the cost of getting a new house). It doesn't do much, but it shifts the chairs and couch slightly left, and it shifts the whole front stage left, with the L main being across the entryway. I realized that by doing this, I'd a) get a wider sound stage, b) be able to move my eventual MLP to the left a bit, and c) not have a jumbled wall of LCR/tv/console. Also, it gives me the possibility of moving the LS back to either her desk or the wall on the other side of the room. So far, it already sounds much better, just more "open." I angled the RS more toward the left side of the eventual MLP, and while it's still not as good as I've had in wider setups, it's much better than it was. Also, to circle back to suggestions of repositioning everything, we deliberated a lot on whether or not to move the tv and C channel over the fireplace, but we both agreed; it just didn't "feel" as good as our current layout, both aesthetically and physically. Plus, as my wife pointed out, the current setup gives us the option of getting a bigger tv or projector/screen. Right now, it's a 65", and it looks great, but at some point a 77" would be really nice.

So now that we've improved things a bit, what would you guys suggest on placement of these Atmos speakers? According to B&W, they're supposed to fire at a fixed 45 degrees, so I'm assuming they'd need to be moved slightly inward and closer to the eventual MLP. Is this correct? What's the minimum distance from the wall? I've seen everything from 18-24" to .1-.3 the width of the room to 3 ft (what the B&W tech support told me, though I don't trust that necessarily). I've also seen folks cite Anthony Grimani's notion that ceiling speakers should be between the mains and the center channel. I guess in the end, I've never had that top layer before, so I don't really even know its purpose. Is it primarily to add a sense of sound from above (which would supposedly mean slightly narrow is better), or is it supposed to help with left/right pan effect (which would supposedly mean wider is better)?

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. And here's a pic to give the update. And don't worry; our future sectional will be more of a chase lounge on the left side, so there won't be a sofa arm in the way.

 

[sdurani]

I guess in the end, I've never had that top layer before, so I don't really even know its purpose. Is it primarily to add a sense of sound from above (which would supposedly mean slightly narrow is better), or is it supposed to help with left/right pan effect (which would supposedly mean wider is better)?

Since spreading your front speakers wider apart gave you better (more open) sound, no reason the same wouldn't apply to the height speakers, so spread them about the same distance apart as your front speakers. On a separate note, I would place some absorption next to the right front speaker to mimic the lack of wall next to the left front speaker (restore symmetry in the front soundstage).

 

[happygodavid]

Since spreading your front speakers wider apart gave you better (more open) sound, no reason the same wouldn't apply to the height speakers, so spread them about the same distance apart as your front speakers. On a separate note, I would place some absorption next to the right front speaker to mimic the lack of wall next to the left front speaker (restore symmetry in the front soundstage).

Thanks so much for dropping in from the Official Atmos thread, @sdurani!

On absorption, do you have any suggestions on what to use for such a narrow spot?

As for the distance from that right wall, how close do you think I can get without getting boominess from the top right Atmos speakers?

Again, thanks!