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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster!


So I have the "pleasure" of helping out my dad choose a new HDTV for his living room. He will be sitting it within an entertainment center that has about 48" of width for room. His requirements are 50" size, 1080p, and got to be under $1000. Here are a few that I've been researching so far:


Panasonic TC-P50S30

Samsung PN51D550

LG 50PV450


Pretty unique about 50 inchers, the only manufacturers that make them happen to be all plasmas. So my dad can't compare those to LCD's or LED-LCD's unless we go smaller or larger in size. What do you guys (the masters) think? Did I leave out some other selections? Let me know.
 

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If he can raise his budget another hundred bucks or so he can get a Panasonic TC-P50ST30 which much better TV that those listed. ST30 blows those others away, and it has an excellent Anti-Reflective Filter. It's a LOT more TV for just a little more money. He's so close, it would be a shame to settle on a much lesser TV just to save another 10%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ah yes, the ST30. After searching around this forum, it seems this is one everyone here recommends. I hope this means for the 50" size as well. I'll see if my dad's budget will allow it. He doesn't need 3D so I'm presuming that the ST30 has more going for it than just that. But I guess not even Panny's own S30 (which is the cheaper one) isn't within the same territory?
 

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The S30 is definitely not in the same class for 2D as the ST30. I sell these things and most of our sales of STxx models have been for the sake of better 2D to people not intending to ever mess with 3D.
 

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I agree with Randy. 50ST30 is definitely the way to go. For an extra hundred dollars, its a complete no brainer.


Even if he never touches the 3D features.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters
If he raise his budget another hundred bucks or so he can get a Panasonic TC-P50ST30 which much better TV that those listed. ST30 blows those others away, and it has an excellent Anti-Reflective Filter. It's a LOT more TV for just a little more money. He's so close, it would be a shame to settle on a much lesser TV.
Ditto ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the opinions guys, keep them coming! It seems there's a lot of Panny love around here.


I'll see if my dad is willing to part with a few more "pennies" for the 50ST30 series. Its kind of ironic though, that 3DTV's are able to produce a much better 2D picture over 2D-only displays.


He was at Sears BTW, and they tried to sell him on the 52" Sharp LED-LCD they had on display there (LC-52LE830U, or the better -835U with 3D) with its "Quattron" technology and whatnot. I know, I know, this is the Plasma section and I shouldn't be talking about any LCD's here. But how do those Sharp models compare to the 50ST30? Does the Panny still hold the edge or not?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion /forum/post/20793739


I'll see if my dad is willing to part with a few more "pennies" for the 50ST30 series. Its kind of ironic though, that a 3DTV is able to produce a much better 2D picture than equivalent NON-3DTV sets.


He was at Sears BTW, and they tried to sell him on the 52" Sharp LED-LCD they had on display there (LC-52LE830U, or the better -835U with 3D) with its "Quattron" technology and whatnot. I know, I know, this is the Plasma section and I shouldn't be talking about any LCD's here. But how do those Sharp models compare to the 50ST30? Does the Panny still hold the edge or not?

You missed the point: the S30 and ST30 are NOT equivalent displays. Botton line is that all the manufacturers are using their botton-line models for their 2D only lines. If you want the better filters and processing, you have to pony up to the models that also include 3D.


There are certainly advantages of both LED and plasma, but for most of us (on the plasma forum), plasma provides the better overall PQ. LED, like all LCDs, suffers from motion blur, poor side angle viewing, ghosting, and non-uniform blacks across the screen, compared with plasma. But in the end, it's what your dad prefers, not what we prefer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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Originally Posted by BillP /forum/post/20794673


You missed the point: the S30 and ST30 are NOT equivalent displays. Botton line is that all the manufacturers are using their botton-line models for their 2D only lines. If you want the better filters and processing, you have to pony up to the models that also include 3D.


There are certainly advantages of both LED and plasma, but for most of us (on the plasma forum), plasma provides the better overall PQ. LED, like all LCDs, suffers from motion blur, poor side angle viewing, ghosting, and non-uniform blacks across the screen, compared with plasma. But in the end, it's what your dad prefers, not what we prefer.

I wasn't saying specifically that the S30 and ST30 were the same, I just made an observation that all the latest tech for outstanding PQ, regardless of 2D/3D, are all being put into 3D displays. Whether the consumer likes 3D or not. My apologies if I made it sound like the 2D displays had the same features as 3D ones. I'll edit my previous post.


Secondly, you're right, I'll have to show my dad both displays (the 50ST30 and 52LE835U) to compare and find out which one he likes more. Price may still be a driving factor then, but only time will tell. Luckily Panasonic released a patch for the infamous "Fluctuating Brightness" problem all the customer reviews were ranting on and on about the ST30.
 

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Remember, there is a very good chance that your father would never see the fluctuating brightness issue. This is a wonderful resourceful forum, but its filled with people who analyze their sets to death. Last year it was all about floating / rising blacks on the 2010 Panasonics, but i own two of them and i rarely notice these issues. Its a fantastic set and the best TV ive ever owned. There is a very good chance you and your father wont notice any fluctuating brightness issues but now you will probably look for them. This years Samsungs reportedly have a floating black issue. No set is perfect. For the money the ST30 is probably the best value of 2011. When it comes to picture quality and black level, for the money its a no brainer. Its also a nice looking TV. I've seen the latest Sharps and i got to say, its like comparing apples to oranges. In my opinion the picture quality on the Sharps is far inferior to Panasonic. The off angle viewing alone is a deal breaker to me. You can hang a plasma anywhere and looks great at any angle. You sit in front of a Sharp and move a foot off angle and the picture begins to wash out.


But use your own eyes and dont let this forum make the decision for you.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion /forum/post/20795993


...I'll have to show my dad both displays (the 50ST30 and 52LE835U) to compare and find out which one he likes more. Price may still be a driving factor then, but only time will tell. Luckily Panasonic released a patch for the infamous "Fluctuating Brightness" problem all the customer reviews were ranting on and on about the ST30.

FWIW, the FBr issue is a bit overblown, and the ST30 was less affected than the GT30 model. Most casual viewers won't notice it on most content - especially when watching TV programming or sports. It's most noticeable during some movie scenes, but even then many people report only seeing it a few times per week.


That Sharp LCD won't have nearly as good a picture as the ST30. You won't find any LCD or LED LCD TV that looks nearly as good as an ST30 unless you spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars more, and even then it'll have the typical LCD problems like poor off-angle viewing quality, motion blur, uneven screen uniformity, poorer black levels, less depth, more reflective screen, a less natural looking image, and other niggling little LCD quirks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/20797685


FWIW, the FBr issue is a bit overblown, and the ST30 was less affected than the GT30 model. Most casual viewers won't notice it on most content - especially when watching TV programming or sports. It's most noticeable during some movie scenes, but even then many people report only seeing it a few times per week.


That Sharp LCD won't have nearly as good a picture as the ST30. You won't find any LCD or LED LCD TV that looks nearly as good as an ST30 unless you spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars more, and even then it'll have the typical LCD problems like poor off-angle viewing quality, motion blur, uneven screen uniformity, poorer black levels, less depth, more reflective screen, a less natural looking image, and other niggling little LCD quirks.

I agree completely Randy. The pluses of plasma far outweigh the negatives. I know a guy who bought an expensive 50 inch LCD and hung it over his fireplace which i believe is 48 inches tall. Standing up in front of the set it looks half decent, the minute any one of them sits down on any sofa it looks terrible. So, he had to buy a new mount that allowed the TV to be pointed downward, it fixes the issues somewhat but now the panel looks stupid up there on the downward angle. They come to my house and one of my sets is over a fireplace and it looks beautiful from any angle sitting or standing. I dont even have it tilted downward. Its true to the wall.


I'm not a plasma fanboy either, i own LCD's also. I'm speaking from experience. To come even remotely close to the same picture quality, a buyer would need to purchase a top of the line LED display, and then u are spending almost double the price which negates any power cost savings all the LED people brag about. But then you are dealing with all the other issues Randy was mentioning above.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunnel /forum/post/20798924


I know a guy who bought an expensive 50 inch LCD and hung it over his fireplace which i believe is 48 inches tall. Standing up in front of the set it looks half decent, the minute any one of them sits down on any sofa it looks terrible.

This is a great bit of info for any potential mount-user.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Oh crap, I'm gone for awhile and all of sudden I get some great responses! Thanks for the opines guys. I know the FBr issue might have been overblown, but at least Panny actually did something to rectify the problem for consumers that actually notice it. Something to think about when comparing.


BTW, is there much of a difference between the ST30 and GT30 series of displays? I was kind of curious since I didn't find anything that stood out when researching Panasonic's website.


A shame though, since I'm also looking into a 32" for the bedroom, I have to stick to LCD (or LED) displays because they don't make 32" plasmas anymore. My old 27" Panasonic "Tau" CRT flat tube has served me well through the years though. But its only standard def.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion
Oh crap, I'm gone for awhile and all of sudden I get some great responses! Thanks for the opines guys. I know the FBr issue might have been overblown, but at least Panny actually did something to rectify the problem for consumers that actually notice it. Something to think about when comparing.
A few months ago i kicked back on the couch in the dark Magnolia section of my local BB and watched the store feed on a 50GT30 and 60GT30 for about twenty minutes and i didn't notice a single instance of FBr and i was specifically looking for it. Had they been playing a Blu-Ray movie then i might have seen it, but in my general viewing it didn't rear it's ugly head. The ST30 is said to exhibit FBr less so than the GT30 (which seems to be the biggest offender).


Quote:
BTW, is there much of a difference between the ST30 and GT30 series of displays? I was kind of curious since I didn't find anything that stood out when researching Panasonic's website.
The GT30 shares the exact same Plasma Panel and AR Filter with the ST30, but adds:


THX Mode


Slightly Better Black Levels


Narrower Bezel with a Silver Outer Trim Surround


Thinner Rear Cabinet and Bezel


4 HDMI Inputs (all mounted on the left side)


VGA PC Input (but limited to 768p signal so it's kinda useless)


Quote:
A shame though, since I'm also looking into a 32" for the bedroom, I have to stick to LCD (or LED) displays because they don't make 32" plasmas anymore.
A decent current 1080p LCD TV will look better than the 32" Plasmas from a few years back anyway (they were 480p). Some of the Sonys and Toshiba LCDs are nice, and Panasonic also makes some nice LCDs too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You're the man Randy! Thats some great info right there. Must have been nice to kick back on someone else's couch after a long day at the office!


Also, after reading some of your other posts in the Plasma section, I'm relieved to find out that I don't have to babysit a new plasma display with all those alleged "D-Nice" break-in procedures for the first 200 hours. I don't think my dad would like to put up with those tedious tasks in the beginning just to enjoy a new plasma. He'll just want to watch all of his favorite channels from the start.

Quote:
A decent current 1080p LCD TV will look better than the 32" Plasmas from a few years back anyway (they were 480p). Some of the Sonys and Toshiba LCDs are nice, and Panasonic also makes some nice LCDs too.
Guess I'll have to mosey on over to the LCD and/or Flat Panel General sections of this forum (don't label me a traitor) to find out what the best options are in the 32" size. Though, did you already forget about the Vizio and Insignia 32" plasmas that were out for a short while in 2008? I know they weren't the best quality, but still.
 

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Quick question, does your dad alternate between the golf channel and the business channel all through the night and day like mine? You can see the business network tickers on his DLP when it starts up, though that somehow doesn't seem to affect the picture once it gets going. I would never recommend plasma for him, it'd be burned in/IRed to hell in no time. Just a thought...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by haloimplant /forum/post/20802145


Quick question, does your dad alternate between the golf channel and the business channel all through the night and day like mine? You can see the business network tickers on his DLP when it starts up, though that somehow doesn't seem to affect the picture once it gets going. I would never recommend plasma for him, it'd be burned in/IRed to hell in no time. Just a thought...

Nah, my dad hates golf. But one of the channels he likes to watch is CNN and you know how many tickers and symbols they have. Among other things, he also enjoys SPEED channel and ESPN for their NASCAR coverage. This is something I'm taking into consideration for him when it comes to burn-in/IR.


After searching around this site though, there seems to be two kinds of people in the Plasma camp. On one side you have the paranoid freaks like D-Nice with all his break-in procedures (ugh). And on the other side you have folks like RandyWalters who say to just be careful and conservative for the first 200 hours of the display. Decisions, decisions...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion /forum/post/20802800


Nah, my dad hates golf. But one of the channels he likes to watch is CNN and you know how many tickers and symbols they have. Among other things, he also enjoys SPEED channel and ESPN for their NASCAR coverage. This is something I'm taking into consideration for him when it comes to burn-in/IR.

On the weekends, I have Speed Channel on my screen for upwards of 8 hours and the SPEED logo is not burned into any of my Plasmas. And every morning and every evening I have local news up on my screen for a total of 4 hours per day and the station logos and crawlers and tickers are not burned into my screen.



Quote:
After searching around this site though, there seems to be two kinds of people in the Plasma camp. On one side you have the paranoid freaks like D-Nice with all his break-in procedures (ugh).

Actually D-Nice is not in the paranoid-of-burn-in camp. He specifically states that is NOT to prevent burn-in. His panel preparation/panel aging procedure using the Evangelo image slide show is solely to age the panel's phosphors evenly before applying his reference settings.


Burn-in was a concern several years ago, but Panasonic (and others) have greatly improved their burn-in resistance in recent years. I'm not saying that it won't happen if one games a LOT or has a particular logo up on the screen for several hours a day every day, but with a good mix of full screen content it has proven to be a non-issue to myself and everybody I know.


Quote:
And on the other side you have folks like RandyWalters who say to just be careful and conservative for the first 200 hours of the display. Decisions, decisions...

Every person that I've set up a plasma TV for did no sort of break-in procedure, and I didn't urge them to break it in. I just set the picture settings to their liking (usually in Custom mode for cable TV and Cinema or THX for DVDs) and left it at that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

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On the weekends, I have Speed Channel on my screen for upwards of 8 hours and the SPEED logo is not burned into any of my Plasmas. And every morning and every evening I have local news up on my screen for a total of 4 hours per day and the station logos and crawlers and tickers are not burned into my screen.

Then it looks like my dad has nothing to worry about concerning burn-in.

Quote:
Actually D-Nice is not in the paranoid-of-burn-in camp. He specifically states that is NOT to prevent burn-in. His panel preparation/panel aging procedure using the Evangelo image slide show is solely to age the panel’s phosphors evenly before applying his reference settings.

I read up on his procedure via google, and you're right. He does have a disclaimer at the beginning of his first post. I stand corrected. I still believe my dad (or me) will not put up with those slide shows in the beginning though, instead of enjoying the display normally from the start.

Quote:
Every person that I’ve set up a plasma TV for did no sort of break-in procedure, and I didn’t urge them to break it in. I just set the picture settings to their liking (usually in Custom mode for cable TV and Cinema or THX for DVDs) and left it at that.

This is the road that is best traveled IMHO. Heck Randy, you ought to create your break-in procedure for the interwebs. You can call it: "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Phosphors".
 
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