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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking to replace one or two subs in my HT. I currently have 4 Aerial SW-12's that I run off a QSC and a Meridian 861, and am looking for more impact for movies. I don't listen to a lot of 2 channel but at the same time don't want to get a sub that isn't musical as well. I'm not looking to sacrifice quantity for quality.


The two subs in the front are next two Aerial 20T's. The two in the back I have positioned through the rear wall so that the front of the sub is flush. Changing out the rear subs would be difficult, as I would have to find subs with the same dimensions.


Any comments on a good replacement that can go down deeper and move more air would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ken
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 /forum/post/18196604


If you want quality AND quantity go with Seaton's Submersives. They now come in beautiful veneers if the appearance matters as well.

www.seaton-sound-forum.com

I believe Mark is working on Submersive 2's as we speak.


There is also Terraform XL which can dip below 10Hz. It weighs 250lbs though



My understanding was Submersive had more power than the original Terraform and was better at handling upper bass whereas Terraform was able to go much lower. Hence, they would be best used together. Mark told me this was no longer the case with Terraform XL though. XL version apparently has adequate power to keep up with Submersive. I was not able to get a clear answer on the upper bass though.
 

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I am far from being an expert, but my understanding at this point in time is that the JL Audio Gotham is a step up from the Aerial Acoustics SW12 and is of excellent quality.


Chris
 

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I still find it great that SVS subs work so well in my system with both music and movies, but they don't belong in the Ultra big bucks forum here! I use two 500w PC20-39+ cylinders in conjuntion with Dunlavy speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/18196911


I believe Mark is working on Submersive 2's as we speak.


There is also Terraform XL which can dip below 10Hz. It weighs 250lbs though



My understanding was Submersive had more power than the original Terraform and was better at handling upper bass whereas Terraform was able to go much lower. Hence, they would be best used together. Mark told me this was no longer the case with Terraform XL though. XL version apparently has adequate power to keep up with Submersive. I was not able to get a clear answer on the upper bass though.

Upper bass it is approximately equal in output to 1 submersive. Down low, it is >2 submersives...closing in on 3. The XL is tuned to 11hz and will dip into the mid single digits.


The newest Paradigms are also an option but other than Paradigm-released specs and a hefty price-tag (up to $10k) not much is known about them. There are already rumors of a delay due to mechanical issues....


The JL offerings are pretty but just cannot deliver amazing bass until you step up to the 212 or the Gothams. For the money, you can get much more performance.


If you want multiples, HSU's Quad-drive system (4 subs) can be wireless and will extend to around 10hz (maybe a little lower) with some authority.


Some of Danley's options can be another possibility if you aren't limited on size.


So, in summary:


Seaton's Submersive, Terraform XL (the Submersive 2 is still a long ways off; I've waited over a year for the XLs)

JLs Fathom 212 or Gotham series

HSU's Quad-drive

Paradigms (Sub 1/2/25, etc)

Danley (various products)


I don't know the dimensions on the OPs subs...but I would keep the back 2 since the dimensions seem to be important...what space are you limited on in the front? If space isn't an issue...I would seriously consider a pair of Terraform XLs..but they are hefty beasts. The Submersives would be an easier fit most likely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the replies. The backs probably have to stay. I'm not too cramped in the front, so space isn't an issue. the subs there now are HWD: 25.0 × 14.0 × 23.0".


I am looking for quality and "bone crushing". Hopefully the new subs can blend with the rear two Aerial subs so that it sounds seamless.
 

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I'm using one of the new Danley DTS-10 sub kits in my theater and it is the most impressive sub I have heard (easily beats things like the Fathom, IMO). I have not heard any of the Seaton offerings though.
 

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I used to run dual SW-12's in a full 7.2 Aerial system. The SW-12's were replaced by a Danley DTS-20, which has since been replaced with 4x Seaton Sound Submersives. I will be replacing the Submersives with 2x Terraform XL's soon. Quality + bone-crushing in spades.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 /forum/post/18198515


Upper bass it is approximately equal in output to 1 submersive. Down low, it is >2 submersives...closing in on 3. The XL is tuned to 11hz and will dip into the mid single digits.

Mark says that 2 Terraform XL's will significantly outperform 4x SubMersives in real world performance with all else being equal (location). > 2x the deep bass capability with extremely low distortion, without losing anything tangible in the upper octave.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If I kept the two rear Aerial subs and replaced the two front subs with Submersives, do you think it would blend well tonally mixing the brands?


Thanks,

Ken
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/18200456


If I kept the two rear Aerial subs and replaced the two front subs with Submersives, do you think it would blend well tonally mixing the brands?


Thanks,

Ken

Personally, I'd ditch the Aerial subs unless you use them for low end for your surrounds and not as pure LFE subs. For LFE, I'd use a pair Seaton subs. The Aerials would only limit your output if used for LFE as they'd crap out before the Seatons. That said, I'm not a huge believer in dedicatdd rear channel subs and might ditch the Aerials all together.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/18199855


Anything wrong with the Velodyne DD18?

Ken

Even used they are more expensive than a new SubMersive and not even in the same ballpark. I had two of them and a single SubMersive kills them. Outdated technology and will never compete with ID subs. I had SVS subs before my current SubMersives and they were WAY better than the Velodynes--WAY better.


Don't even bother.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness /forum/post/18200368


Mark says that 2 Terraform XL's will significantly outperform 4x SubMersives in real world performance with all else being equal (location). > 2x the deep bass capability with extremely low distortion, without losing anything tangible in the upper octave.

If Mark says so, I believe him. However, 4 SubMersives (which I have) give a lot more placement flexibility and the ability to create a flatter FR without EQ. And then there is room gain. I am only 4db down at 5Hz and with 4 subs in a 3800 cf room, I have all of the "woof" I need, at whatever frequency you might be interested. (Noting, however, that there probably aren't a dozen movies that have any real output that low). Now if I had a larger space to fill and could afford it, I'd just buy a few (or more) of each (Terraform and SubMersives) and be done with it



MarkS is the king of "woof"!
 

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Well, if you want the best, there is no substitute for custom DIY subwoofers. Also, one should consider a total of 2 or 4 subwoofers in total based on Floyd tooles and others research.


1)

One should consider 2 or 4 of the new Thomas Danley subs, clearly "THE" price/performance leader. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1189404


2) The other choice would be: 2 or 4 Terraform XL's by Mark Seaton


3) Certainly, if you truly want the best of the best, IMO, it is my upcoming Quasar Array subwoofers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175273


They utilize the new, just released TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" driver which has no equal, not even close. I could not make the Quasar Array Subwoofers with any other driver. The Quasar Array drivers are simply the best possible sealed (dual opposed) subwoofer humanly possible. The only catch is that they require lots of power. Hence, I purchased (2) Lab Gruppen 220V FP+ 14000 amplifiers (flat to 1.5 Hz) to power (4) Quasar Array subwoofers. A custom XLR Marchand Bassis is utilized which can push the Quasar Array subs flat to 5 Hz...


I would be willing to build these for people, but they are expensive. I employ a CNC machine shop and a stone fabricating shop... obviously very labor intensive, but it is cost no object...
 
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