[cwilson]

I have a Kenwood 5900M changer feeding a Denon 4803 receiver. For DVD-Audio I'm of course using the 6-channels outputs and inputs. I'm not sure about the crossover point of the Kenwood but I believe it may be 100 Hz because the manual instructs you to set the main speakers to large if they are capable of handling signals below 100 Hz.


My question is how best to set up my system. The Kenwood allows you to set each speaker to large or normal and the subwoofer to on or off (for 6 channel output). My speakers are Revels so are obviously capable of going below 100 Hz but I suspect it would be best to set them to normal (small).


My Denon receiver is set up with a crossover at 80 Hz, speakers set to small.


What do you recommend?


Craig

 

[BGLeduc]

The Denon probably does not do BM on the 6 CH analog in, so you want to set that in the player.


Even if your mains go down to 40 or 50 Hz or so, you normally want to set the speakers to small/sub on.


There are no absolutes on this, but that typically works well for most users.


Here is a link to a FAQ that covers player set-up issues http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...22#post1800722


Side note: If the Denon does have BM for the 6 CH in, then you will set the player to all large/sub on.


BGL

 

[cwilson]

BGL:


The Denon 4802 has bass management in that crossover frequency can be set to 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120. But whether this applies to the 6 channel analogs, I don't know. The manual, which is not very good, says that when you set playback to the external input (EXT IN) mode for DVD-A, the input signals are output directly to the front, center, and surrounds (and the pre-out jacks) without passing through the surround circuitry, and the signal input to the subwoofer jack is output to the output subwoofer jack. From that it sounds like there is no bass management for the 6 channel but it's never quite spelled out. Any thoughts? I'll try contacting Denon but without much confidence I'll get a definitive answer.


Craig

 

[nle]

Well, not sure if this is applicable, but I have a denon 3803, and it has settings for speakers (ie large, small etc) but they didn't apply to analog inputs. My denon 1600 also had (albeit crappy) settings for speaker settings as well) but again, when listening to DVD-A (especially metallica) there was little or no bass coming out of my subwoofer and it's as if they were trying to send the full range through all of my speakers. I finally cracked and bought the Outlaw ICBM a few weeks ago, and I couldn't be happier. I haven't regretted the purchase. After setting the appropriate crossovers, the music sounds better, and my subwoofer is now bearing the brunt of the lower frequencies. Hope this helps.

 

[BGLeduc]

Quote:

From that it sounds like there is no bass management for the 6 channel but it's never quite spelled out. Any thoughts?

I would agree. Thats pretty common, as there are very few receivers to do BM on the 6 CH inputs. I think several HKs do, but those are the only ones that come to mind.


So, set your player to have all speakers small, sub on. Since you have a Denon, you are in luck, because IIRC, there is a switchable boost for the .1/sub input. Assuming the Kenwood has the common problem of low .1/sub channel (mentioned in the FAQ) you want to set that to +10, then balance all channels with test tones (Avia, VE, or others).


You should then be good to go.


BGL

 

[cwilson]

BGL:


I'm not sure that my Denon has a switchable boost to the .1 input although it may be there and just not found yet. There's a way to set the level for each speaker but I'd prefer leaving things as they are set since there are a lot of movies and music that are not DVD-A.


The Kenwood changer also has a way to set the output of each channel (from -12 to 0) so I'll probably keep the subwoofer at 0 and drop the others to -10. Does that sound reasonable?


Craig

 

[BGLeduc]

Quote:

The Kenwood changer also has a way to set the output of each channel (from -12 to 0) so I'll probably keep the subwoofer at 0 and drop the others to -10. Does that sound reasonable?

That should work. I know some Denon's have it ( I helped a friend set up a low end model; 1603 maybe???) that had it.


I guess I have put the cart before the horse somewhat. I would leave everything at 0 in the player, and run some test tones. You may already be OK. If not a 0/-10 approach is OK.


I think some users of the Pioneer 563 are doing +6/-4. As long as you get equal levels on ALL channels, your good to go.


BGL

 

[cwilson]

BG:


One last question. Is there a DVD-A test disk or another way of figuring out the levels? I have both AVIA and DVE both I don't thing either of them sends out 5.1 via the 6 channel audio jacks. There's a test level procedure built into the Kenwood but the subwoofer channel is hardly audible when I do that.


Craig

 

[BGLeduc]

You can use either disc, since I would expect that the Kenwood also has a built in DD and DTS decoder. Most of the uni players I know of also support DD and DTS via the 6 CH outs.


At least in my experience, the low .1/sub channel level effects ALL formats, so a DD or DTS test should work.


If that is not the case, I can highly recommend the Chesky Ultimate DVD. It has DVD-A and DD test tracks, some really handy like sub woofer phase.


Side note: The sub channel test tones on DVE are faulty, I would stick with Avia.


Funny the internal sub tones are low on the Kenwood. My Pio 45a has that issue, as does the Pio 563. Must be some common DNA in there.


BGL

 

[JorgeLopez11]

cwilson, If I may...


I don't own a 4802, but I hope this 3803 stuff helps you (besides BGLeduc kind help):


Neither the 4802 nor the 3803 has BM for 5.1 analog inputs (you can recognize them as EXT IN).


In the particular case of 3803, you can adjust the subwoofer gain up to +15db for EXT IN. I think this may be true for 4802 as well.


This helps boosting bass level as sometimes required for DVD-A or SAC input signals. Remember that in this case you are not using the receiver's DSP processing capabilities, so there's no need to adjust your crossover settings, which would only work with digital input signals coming from the DVD player (LPCM, DTS or DD signals).


So you should adjust BM options in your Kenwood DVD player as BGLeduc already recommended (small speakers, for instance).


Try the 4802 setup menu and see if you can find the "EXT IN subwoofer level". This may make the difference!!


In any case, you can also try configuring your Kenwood subwoofer option at 0 dB and all other speakers at -10. I think any of this two options should work.


Good luck!

 

[cwilson]

I found a speaker level test section on one of my DVD-A's - the first Big Phat Band - and the subwoofer was again hardly audible. So I set the speakers to small (normal) and the subwoofer level 10 dB higher than the others and I like the sound. Not very precise but I'm happy with it now.


Thank you both for your help. I think I have a much better understanding of the concepts now.


Craig

 

[BGLeduc]

cwilson,


You have done what many uni-player owners have had to do, so no need to worry about this being imprecise. Its required to address a shortcoming in many players.


Side note: Good call with your Bigg Phat Band DVD-A. Was it Swinging for the Fences or XXL? FWIW, BFB SFtF was the 1st DVD-A I bought, even before I had a DVD-A capable player.


These two discs are be far, the best recorded music I own. If I want to show off what my rig can do, these are the titles to do it. If you only have one, I highly recommend the other. Stunning sonics, IMHO.


BGL

 

[cwilson]

BGL:


I do have both disks and couldn't agree more that those are the most exciting DVD-A disks anyone can own. In fact it was listening to Swinging for the Fences at CES three or four years ago that put me in a fever to get a multichannel system. Didn't hurt that I'm a jazz and big band nut.


Craig

 

[BGLeduc]

Quote:

Didn't hurt that I'm a jazz and big band nut.

LOL!


I like many genres of music, but my all time favorite band is Black Sabbath. And I still LOVE BFB!


BGL

 

[JorgeLopez11]

BGL,


What a coincidence! I am also a big Black Sabbath's fan and before buying my new Denon 2900 player, I auditioned it playing Black Sabbath's "NIB" and "National Acrobat".


Nevertheless I have never heard BFB, but from your comments I'll go get those two discs.


Thank you and Cwilson for the tip