The .1 on the AV system is the dedicated subwoofer (LFE channel) and require some sort of amplification (powered sub). When the system is setup correctly, all the low frequency sound from all channels are directed to the LFE channel. This setup eliminates the need for full range speakers on a typical setup. That does not mean that you cannot use full range speakers at all. By using your Jamo in conjunction with the passive subwoofer you are talking about, you are building some sort of a full range front speaker system except they are on separate enclosures. The Jamo will produce the high and the sub, the low. It might sound good or bad and only you can tell which one. Also, depending on your crossover setting you have selected on your receiver and speaker size (Large/Small), you might not hear anything coming out of your old sub. You should try it both ways, with the old sub and without it. The new powered sub might be all you need.
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Need Help!! Speaker Setup!!! Please???
Let me start off by saying many many thanks in advance to anyone here who can help straighten me out on my new audio setup. I've been given several different suggestions by a few people, and I'm trying to figure out what to do.
Here's the deal. I just replaced a 12 year old receiver with a Panasonic SA-XR25. I'm trying to hook it up to my existing speakers which are Jamo (also about 12 years old).
The thing that I'm having trouble with is that the subwoofer I have is passive. It is a pretty high end sub though (I think) It's an SW500 Watt sub - but it's non-powered.
I don't understand too much about this stuff, so I'm appealing here for someone to help a poor ignorant slob such as myself. I've been told by one person that I need a powered sub to have a true 6.1 setup and the passive one I have won't be of much use. I see that CC is having a great sale this week on the Sony SA WM250 100 Watt powered sub and I was going to buy it (I know that others may say to get a better powered sub - but this is all my budget will allow), but I'm trying to figure out if I should.
One person said that my best bet is to buy the powered sub AND to still use the one I have. They said to hook up the rear and center speakers directly to the receiver and then run the "front" speaker wires into the passive sub first (into the amplifier in connections) and then run wires from the "main sattelite" connection on the sub out to the two front speakers in my system. Then they said to connect the powered sub directly to the receiver and I would have the best setup that way.
Is that correct? Is it beneficial (worth it?) to get the new powered sub. Is is beneficial to use both the passive and powered subwoofer in my system?
Again, MANY MANY thanks to anyone here who can help. I want to take advange of that Sony sub today at the good price as there are only a few in stock at the store near my house - so time is of relative essence.
Here's the deal. I just replaced a 12 year old receiver with a Panasonic SA-XR25. I'm trying to hook it up to my existing speakers which are Jamo (also about 12 years old).
The thing that I'm having trouble with is that the subwoofer I have is passive. It is a pretty high end sub though (I think) It's an SW500 Watt sub - but it's non-powered.
I don't understand too much about this stuff, so I'm appealing here for someone to help a poor ignorant slob such as myself. I've been told by one person that I need a powered sub to have a true 6.1 setup and the passive one I have won't be of much use. I see that CC is having a great sale this week on the Sony SA WM250 100 Watt powered sub and I was going to buy it (I know that others may say to get a better powered sub - but this is all my budget will allow), but I'm trying to figure out if I should.
One person said that my best bet is to buy the powered sub AND to still use the one I have. They said to hook up the rear and center speakers directly to the receiver and then run the "front" speaker wires into the passive sub first (into the amplifier in connections) and then run wires from the "main sattelite" connection on the sub out to the two front speakers in my system. Then they said to connect the powered sub directly to the receiver and I would have the best setup that way.
Is that correct? Is it beneficial (worth it?) to get the new powered sub. Is is beneficial to use both the passive and powered subwoofer in my system?
Again, MANY MANY thanks to anyone here who can help. I want to take advange of that Sony sub today at the good price as there are only a few in stock at the store near my house - so time is of relative essence.
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I would stay away from the cheap Sony subwoofer. Not enough power, won't go down very low, and probably sounds boomy to boot.
If your current non-powered subwoofer produces good sound, you could connect the subwoofer (pre)out on your receiver to an amplifier or even an old receiver and then use that to provide the power for the sub.
If your current non-powered subwoofer produces good sound, you could connect the subwoofer (pre)out on your receiver to an amplifier or even an old receiver and then use that to provide the power for the sub.
Teddy,
Does your passive subwoofer have speaker connections on it; for example, to connect two speakers to?
Sanjay
Does your passive subwoofer have speaker connections on it; for example, to connect two speakers to?
Sanjay
Quote:
Thanks to all for the responses. You have all been very helpful. I guess I'm still not sure though if I need to buy a powered subwoofer or not. I guess I can test the sound without it, but I'm thinking I'd have better sound with a powered sub.
As for your quesion, sdurani, yes, the passive sub has speaker connections on it. It has "amplifier input" to and also has two different connections for speakers ("main speakers" or something like that and "satellite speakers")
| Originally posted by sdurani Teddy, Does your passive subwoofer have speaker connections on it; for example, to connect two speakers to? Sanjay |
As for your quesion, sdurani, yes, the passive sub has speaker connections on it. It has "amplifier input" to and also has two different connections for speakers ("main speakers" or something like that and "satellite speakers")
Quote:
What you really want to do is make your current sub a "powered" sub. Find an amplifier for it. Connect the amp to the subwoofer output of the receiver and then connect it to the passive sub. This ensures that all the summed low frequencies of all the channels are played by the sub.
Doing it the way that was suggested will only get the bass from the L/R channels to be output by the sub. This works well for stereo, but misses the mark for 5.1 surround. The bass in the Center and SS channels will be lost, (or at least only played by the CC and SS speaker, which presumably don't have much low frequency extension).
Here is a link to an amp for less than $200 that should work:
Parts Express/AudioSource Amp
If you use it in bridged mono mode, it puts out 200 watts per channel. Good luck.
Craig
| Originally posted by TeddyLeg Let me start off by saying many many thanks in advance to anyone here who can help straighten me out on my new audio setup. I've been given several different suggestions by a few people, and I'm trying to figure out what to do. Here's the deal. I just replaced a 12 year old receiver with a Panasonic SA-XR25. I'm trying to hook it up to my existing speakers which are Jamo (also about 12 years old). The thing that I'm having trouble with is that the subwoofer I have is passive. It is a pretty high end sub though (I think) It's an SW500 Watt sub - but it's non-powered. I don't understand too much about this stuff, so I'm appealing here for someone to help a poor ignorant slob such as myself. I've been told by one person that I need a powered sub to have a true 6.1 setup and the passive one I have won't be of much use. I see that CC is having a great sale this week on the Sony SA WM250 100 Watt powered sub and I was going to buy it (I know that others may say to get a better powered sub - but this is all my budget will allow), but I'm trying to figure out if I should. One person said that my best bet is to buy the powered sub AND to still use the one I have. They said to hook up the rear and center speakers directly to the receiver and then run the "front" speaker wires into the passive sub first (into the amplifier in connections) and then run wires from the "main sattelite" connection on the sub out to the two front speakers in my system. Then they said to connect the powered sub directly to the receiver and I would have the best setup that way. Is that correct? Is it beneficial (worth it?) to get the new powered sub. Is is beneficial to use both the passive and powered subwoofer in my system? Again, MANY MANY thanks to anyone here who can help. I want to take advange of that Sony sub today at the good price as there are only a few in stock at the store near my house - so time is of relative essence. |
Doing it the way that was suggested will only get the bass from the L/R channels to be output by the sub. This works well for stereo, but misses the mark for 5.1 surround. The bass in the Center and SS channels will be lost, (or at least only played by the CC and SS speaker, which presumably don't have much low frequency extension).
Here is a link to an amp for less than $200 that should work:
Parts Express/AudioSource Amp
If you use it in bridged mono mode, it puts out 200 watts per channel. Good luck.
Craig
Quote:
Until you try some of the creative suggestions in this thread, here's a simple way of connecting the subwoofer in the mean time.
Go into the SETUP menu of your receiver and select Speaker Size. Set the centre and surrounds to SMALL. Set the Filter Frequency to its lowest setting (100). Set the front speakers to LARGE. Set subwoofer to NONE. This will re-route the bass from the centre and all surround speakers to your front speakers. It will also makes sure that the .1/LFE channel (when present) will be routed to the front speakers (since you set the sub to NONE). So, none of the bass is lost; it's all sent to your front speakers.
Your front speakers most likely can't handle all that bass without the help of a subwoofer. Run the front Left & Right speaker wires from your receiver to your passive subwoofer. You'll see the appropriately labeled speaker inputs on your sub. Connect the speaker outputs on your subwoofer to their respective left & right speakers. Now you have a sub/sat (subwoofer/satellite) system for your front left & right channels. The subwoofer will reproduce the lowest frequencies and pass the higher frequencies on to the two speakers. Even though it's three pieces, think of it as having two large front speakers (except their low frequency driver is in a separate cabinet).
Don't forget to calibrate levels and set speaker distances.
Best,
Sanjay
| Originally posted by TeddyLeg yes, the passive sub has speaker connections on it. It has "amplifier input" to and also has two different connections for speakers ("main speakers" or something like that and "satellite speakers") |
Go into the SETUP menu of your receiver and select Speaker Size. Set the centre and surrounds to SMALL. Set the Filter Frequency to its lowest setting (100). Set the front speakers to LARGE. Set subwoofer to NONE. This will re-route the bass from the centre and all surround speakers to your front speakers. It will also makes sure that the .1/LFE channel (when present) will be routed to the front speakers (since you set the sub to NONE). So, none of the bass is lost; it's all sent to your front speakers.
Your front speakers most likely can't handle all that bass without the help of a subwoofer. Run the front Left & Right speaker wires from your receiver to your passive subwoofer. You'll see the appropriately labeled speaker inputs on your sub. Connect the speaker outputs on your subwoofer to their respective left & right speakers. Now you have a sub/sat (subwoofer/satellite) system for your front left & right channels. The subwoofer will reproduce the lowest frequencies and pass the higher frequencies on to the two speakers. Even though it's three pieces, think of it as having two large front speakers (except their low frequency driver is in a separate cabinet).
Don't forget to calibrate levels and set speaker distances.
Best,
Sanjay
Quote:
Yeah, that'll work just fine -- until you turn the volume up. Driving a sub AND a set of speakers from a receiver's speaker outputs could be asking the receiver's amp's to do more than they were designed for.
Using the LFE channel and adding a subwoofer amp increases total system output. It also frees the "mains" amps from the low frequency responsibilities. The LF consumes MUCH more power than the mid's or high's. Eliminating the LF signal to the mains amps allows them to open up and do a much better job of driving the L/C/R and SS channels.
A dedicated subwoofer amplifier brings a lot more to the table than does directing the LF signal to the L/R speakers and asking the receiver to amplify those signals.
Craig
| Originally posted by sdurani Until you try some of the creative suggestions in this thread, here's a simple way of connecting the subwoofer in the mean time. Go into the SETUP menu of your receiver and select Speaker Size. Set the centre and surrounds to SMALL. Set the Filter Frequency to its lowest setting (100). Set the front speakers to LARGE. Set subwoofer to NONE. This will re-route the bass from the centre and all surround speakers to your front speakers. It will also makes sure that the .1/LFE channel (when present) will be routed to the front speakers (since you set the sub to NONE). So, none of the bass is lost; it's all sent to your front speakers. Your front speakers most likely can't handle all that bass without the help of a subwoofer. Run the front Left & Right speaker wires from your receiver to your passive subwoofer. You'll see the appropriately labeled speaker inputs on your sub. Connect the speaker outputs on your subwoofer to their respective left & right speakers. Now you have a sub/sat (subwoofer/satellite) system for your front left & right channels. The subwoofer will reproduce the lowest frequencies and pass the higher frequencies on to the two speakers. Even though it's three pieces, think of it as having two large front speakers (except their low frequency driver is in a separate cabinet). Don't forget to calibrate levels and set speaker distances. Best, Sanjay |
Using the LFE channel and adding a subwoofer amp increases total system output. It also frees the "mains" amps from the low frequency responsibilities. The LF consumes MUCH more power than the mid's or high's. Eliminating the LF signal to the mains amps allows them to open up and do a much better job of driving the L/C/R and SS channels.
A dedicated subwoofer amplifier brings a lot more to the table than does directing the LF signal to the L/R speakers and asking the receiver to amplify those signals.
Craig
Quote:
What specifically will happen when the volume is turned up?
Thanx,
Sanjay
| Originally posted by craig john Yeah, that'll work just fine -- until you turn the volume up. |
Thanx,
Sanjay
I'm having trouble grasping the significance of the sub's model (SW500 Watt sub) but it's not powered... is the 500W the power handling capability?
Do as a few others have suggested and get a power amp (monoblock, or even use an old receiver) and take advantage of your high end sub!
Don't cheap out on that Sony... just say no.
Do as a few others have suggested and get a power amp (monoblock, or even use an old receiver) and take advantage of your high end sub!
Don't cheap out on that Sony... just say no.
Quote:
Sanjay,
The solution you suggest WILL work. However, attempting to drive a passive subwoofer AND the full range speakers with a 100 wpc receiver will tax the amplifier unnecessarily. It takes a lot of amplifier power to move a subwoofer driver. When you try to drive the sub to the levels it has the potential to put out, the amplifier will run out of power before the sub will. When the amp runs out of power, it will distort.
I don't know how efficient the OP's 12 y/o Jamo's speakers are, nor how effcient his sub is. If they are extremely efficient, (i.e., >95 dB, 1 watt, 1 meter) your solution may be all he needs. If they are less than that, I suspect he'll run out of amplifier power before he gets to "loud enough" levels.
I would encourage the OP to try Sanjay's solution. If it works well enough, that's fine. If he finds he wants more output and/or less distortion, then an outboard sub amp is the way to go.
Craig
| Originally posted by sdurani What specifically will happen when the volume is turned up? Thanx, Sanjay |
The solution you suggest WILL work. However, attempting to drive a passive subwoofer AND the full range speakers with a 100 wpc receiver will tax the amplifier unnecessarily. It takes a lot of amplifier power to move a subwoofer driver. When you try to drive the sub to the levels it has the potential to put out, the amplifier will run out of power before the sub will. When the amp runs out of power, it will distort.
I don't know how efficient the OP's 12 y/o Jamo's speakers are, nor how effcient his sub is. If they are extremely efficient, (i.e., >95 dB, 1 watt, 1 meter) your solution may be all he needs. If they are less than that, I suspect he'll run out of amplifier power before he gets to "loud enough" levels.
I would encourage the OP to try Sanjay's solution. If it works well enough, that's fine. If he finds he wants more output and/or less distortion, then an outboard sub amp is the way to go.
Craig
Thanks guys. Sounds like most of you think getting another amplifier to drive the passive sub is the best way to go.
How about this one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=356256
It's a little less expensive than the other one listed and I think it would give me 100 Watts bridged. I usually don't play my system very loud as I am in an apartment building.
Let me know what you think? Do you all agree than this is a better solution than buying a powered sub?
How about this one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=356256
It's a little less expensive than the other one listed and I think it would give me 100 Watts bridged. I usually don't play my system very loud as I am in an apartment building.
Let me know what you think? Do you all agree than this is a better solution than buying a powered sub?
Craig,
Quote:
That was my point. Without knowing the efficiency of his sub & speakers, I don't think there is any good reason to not try a traditional sub/sat set-up. His passive sub was obviously designed specifically for that purpose, since it has the requisite connections to be hooked up that way.
Besides, the intent of my suggestion was to have his system up and running so he can start enjoying it right now. The sub/sat hookup will suffice until he can try some of the other things mentioned in this thread (buy a separate amp, buy a powered sub, etc). Note the first line of my original post.
Best,
Sanjay
Quote:
| I don't know how efficient the OP's 12 y/o Jamo's speakers are, nor how effcient his sub is. If they are extremely efficient, (i.e., >95 dB, 1 watt, 1 meter) your solution may be all he needs. |
Besides, the intent of my suggestion was to have his system up and running so he can start enjoying it right now. The sub/sat hookup will suffice until he can try some of the other things mentioned in this thread (buy a separate amp, buy a powered sub, etc). Note the first line of my original post.
Best,
Sanjay
Quote:
Thanks Sanjay, I should be able to set up the system tomorrow night and test the response, but one more question. If I do decide to save up for a better powered sub, it is worthwhile to use the passive sub in conjunction with the powered one?
If so, is this how I'd set it up?
-Run the single sub wire directly from the reciever to the powered sub.
-Run regular speaker wire out of the two "front" speaker connections on the receiver into the "amplifier input" portion of the passive sub.
-Run regular speaker wire out of the of the "main satellite" portion of the passive sub and connect that directly into the two front speakers.
Sorry that I'm such a novice, but is that correct?
Also, please let me know if such a setup makes any sense if I do end up buying a powered sub.
And again, thanks very much for the help.
| Originally posted by sdurani Craig, That was my point. Without knowing the efficiency of his sub & speakers, I don't think there is any good reason to not try a traditional sub/sat set-up. His passive sub was obviously designed specifically for that purpose, since it has the requisite connections to be hooked up that way. Besides, the intent of my suggestion was to have his system up and running so he can start enjoying it right now. The sub/sat hookup will suffice until he can try some of the other things mentioned in this thread (buy a separate amp, buy a powered sub, etc). Note the first line of my original post. Best, Sanjay |
If so, is this how I'd set it up?
-Run the single sub wire directly from the reciever to the powered sub.
-Run regular speaker wire out of the two "front" speaker connections on the receiver into the "amplifier input" portion of the passive sub.
-Run regular speaker wire out of the of the "main satellite" portion of the passive sub and connect that directly into the two front speakers.
Sorry that I'm such a novice, but is that correct?
Also, please let me know if such a setup makes any sense if I do end up buying a powered sub.
And again, thanks very much for the help.
Quote:
Depends on multiple factors. IF, as Craig points out, the passive sub strains your receiver's amps, then you may want to use it temporarily until you get the powered one. If it doesn't, then you can use both.
Quote:
Exactly. It will be the equivalent of having a set-up with large front speakers plus a subwoofer.
BTW, if you get a really good powered sub and discover that it sounds much better than the passive one, then get the passive one out of your system and only use the powered one to reproduce the bass.
Like I said, there are multiple factors involved in deciding whether to use both subs or only one: can the receiver handle the passive sub; is there a big difference in sound quality; with your front speakers set to LARGE will any bass go to the powered sub; etc.
Best,
Sanjay
| Originally posted by TeddyLeg If I do decide to save up for a better powered sub, it is worthwhile to use the passive sub in conjunction with the powered one? |
Quote:
| If so, is this how I'd set it up? -Run the single sub wire directly from the reciever to the powered sub. -Run regular speaker wire out of the two "front" speaker connections on the receiver into the "amplifier input" portion of the passive sub. -Run regular speaker wire out of the of the "main satellite" portion of the passive sub and connect that directly into the two front speakers. |
BTW, if you get a really good powered sub and discover that it sounds much better than the passive one, then get the passive one out of your system and only use the powered one to reproduce the bass.
Like I said, there are multiple factors involved in deciding whether to use both subs or only one: can the receiver handle the passive sub; is there a big difference in sound quality; with your front speakers set to LARGE will any bass go to the powered sub; etc.
Best,
Sanjay
Quote:
Excellent. I'm actually beginning to understand so you have done a great job!! I'm (admittedly) not too bright about this stuff, and your thoughtfulness in taking time to answer my naive questions is appreciated.
I will do as you suggested and see how the different set-ups sound. Thanks again.
| Originally posted by sdurani Depends on multiple factors. IF, as Craig points out, the passive sub strains your receiver's amps, then you may want to use it temporarily until you get the powered one. If it doesn't, then you can use both. Exactly. It will be the equivalent of having a set-up with large front speakers plus a subwoofer. BTW, if you get a really good powered sub and discover that it sounds much better than the passive one, then get the passive one out of your system and only use the powered one to reproduce the bass. Like I said, there are multiple factors involved in deciding whether to use both subs or only one: can the receiver handle the passive sub; is there a big difference in sound quality; with your front speakers set to LARGE will any bass go to the powered sub; etc. Best, Sanjay |
I will do as you suggested and see how the different set-ups sound. Thanks again.
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