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Discussion Starter #1
so as a total audio-idiot, i have 3 questions about the maggies.


1a) first off, referring to Guy's post about the receiver supporting the speakers, is it a problem if these are my receiving specs (it's an old not-so-great onkyo)


Power Output* (8 ohm, 20 Hz-20 kHz, FTC) -

Front L/R 65 W/Ch

Center 65 W

Surround L/R 65 W/Ch

Surround Back 65 W


I see 2 problems here. 1) the ohm rating and 2) the wattage. i was going to hold off on purchasing a new receiver but i'm thinking that i should upgrade before using the speakers.


1b) the onkyo site mentions dynamic power for the fronts at 3, 4 or 8 ohms. does this match the ohms support that the MMG-W's need?


2) what is the proper break-in for these anyway? i called and asked magnepan directly and they did not have any recommendations.


thanks in advance!


Gabe
 

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You might wish to read this FAQ at their website:
http://www.magnepan.com/faq#power


But I believe you already did. There is also a page listing Power Requirements for each of their designs and they have the MMG W listed at 5 Ohms.


As I understand it, you definitely do not want to drive 4-Ohm speakers with an 8-Ohm Receiver or Amplifier. Some Amplifiers can double their output power by setting their switch to 4-Ohm -- assuming they have one. 100W becomes 200W. Most Receivers cannot, but can boost their output by 30% to 40%. My Onkyo TX-SR875 is rated as follows...

160 W at 8 Ohms

270 W at 4 Ohms

...both listed as Dynamic Power over 1 Channel.


So I should have plenty of power.

And the 4-Ohm is mandatory since there is no secondary option on the speaker, itself.


You already stated your Receiver does have this option. That's the biggest tripping point. Look at the Power Rating for the 4 Ohm setting -- it should be about 30% to 50% higher than your stated 8 Ohm output. If 8 Ohm is at 65 W, you might have 85 W for the 4 Ohm -- I think that will be fine.


Try your existing Receiver before rushing out to buy a new one. Look at the Spec Sheet online and click on the Specs tab -- does it list a dynamic output rating at 4 Ohms? If not, figure 35% higher than the 65 W rating. If you were asking "Is it enough power?", I'd ask how big the room is. The Maggies sound better with more power, so my guess is you'll want about double what you have. But your setup will certainly let you audition them.


Big issue here is how loud do you wanna go?


Typical break-in for speakers is usually suggested at around 100 to 400 hours of listening to various music types. But most people feel they can tell if they like the speakers in a far shorter time. I've seen people state adamant time periods, but breaking in any of the electronic equipment you own is probably not unusual to get the best sound. KEFs are another brand known to take a long time (from what I've read).


Another point...

A subwoofer is recommended by most Reviewers -- especially for the W model. But this depends on how much bass you like. And how big that room is. The Receiver output can be based upon the room size, somewhat, too. For example, if you never listen at really high levels, you may not want a subwoofer or more receiver power.


Nice thing is, many Reviews point out that the W makes great Fronts, Rears and Surrounds -- as in, buy two sets for a truly enveloping experience. You can even use one W for the Center, or run no Center at all (if you like that sound), because the Maggies are unique in how they create a front soundstage. I have not read too many reviews on inexpensive or small speakers that stated "these speakers "disappeared" and I could hardly tell they were there." I read just exactly the opposite on the Maggies -- including the MMG W. And especially their MMG C. That curved front is there for a reason.


I'm not an expert, nor even a fan, yet. But you really have to look very hard to find negative comments on the Magnepan designs. And believe me -- I've looked. The decision for me came down to floorspace. I was willing to spend far more, but not if it meant taking up too much real estate. The price didn't hurt, but it wasn't the driving issue.


Most other wall-mounted designs I read about basically said "OK. You can mount these on the wall -- but I wouldn't want to because it greatly affects the listening enjoyment in a negative way." One review on the MMG said "You wouldn't expect standing up and walking past a wall-mounted speaker -- especially a planar design -- to still sound good. After all, there's nothing behind them. But that design is the point -- sound emanates everywhere, from front and back -- so moving across the soundstage doesn't destroy the effect. Unlike boxed enclosures."
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yup, I have a 503. I was going to upgrade it and wasn't sure if I needed to do that sooner than I thought. From Guy's post (more on that in a minute) it sounds like it will do for now and then I'll go from there, when I would technically know more about what i'm working with here.


Do you use your 503 to run your maggies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci /forum/post/14337862


Gabe, which model do you have? The ratings look about the same as my 503.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Damn, Guy! Thanks for the post. That was really informative. Clearly I have a long way to go before really understanding how to set up my system.


I, too, bought these speakers based on the rave reviews and the footprint. I'll take your advice and use my current receiver, and then upgrade when I have an idea of where I want to take these things.


Either way, I have a feeling I just opened the door to yet another expensive hobby.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Owen /forum/post/14338528


You might wish to read this FAQ at their website:
http://www.magnepan.com/faq#power


But I believe you already did. There is also a page listing Power Requirements for each of their designs and they have the MMG W listed at 5 Ohms.


As I understand it, you definitely do not want to drive 4-Ohm speakers with an 8-Ohm Receiver or Amplifier. Some Amplifiers can double their output power by setting their switch to 4-Ohm -- assuming they have one. 100W becomes 200W. Most Receivers cannot, but can boost their output by 30% to 40%. My Onkyo TX-SR875 is rated as follows...

160 W at 8 Ohms

270 W at 4 Ohms

...both listed as Dynamic Power over 1 Channel.


So I should have plenty of power.

And the 4-Ohm is mandatory since there is no secondary option on the speaker, itself.


You already stated your Receiver does have this option. That's the biggest tripping point. Look at the Power Rating for the 4 Ohm setting -- it should be about 30% to 50% higher than your stated 8 Ohm output. If 8 Ohm is at 65 W, you might have 85 W for the 4 Ohm -- I think that will be fine.


Try your existing Receiver before rushing out to buy a new one. Look at the Spec Sheet online and click on the Specs tab -- does it list a dynamic output rating at 4 Ohms? If not, figure 35% higher than the 65 W rating. If you were asking "Is it enough power?", I'd ask how big the room is. The Maggies sound better with more power, so my guess is you'll want about double what you have. But your setup will certainly let you audition them.


Big issue here is how loud do you wanna go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Owen /forum/post/14338528


A subwoofer is recommended by most Reviewers -- especially for the W model. But this depends on how much bass you like. And how big that room is. The Receiver output can be based upon the room size, somewhat, too. For example, if you never listen at really high levels, you may not want a subwoofer or more receiver power.

The other *huge* question is: "Are you using Bass Management?" If you use BM to siphon off the high-power consuming bass and shuttle it to the subwoofer, you free up a lot of potential amplifier headroom for the speakers. Still, 65 watts, or even 85 watts into 4 Ohms is not a lot of amp headroom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Owen /forum/post/14338528


Nice thing is, many Reviews point out that the W makes great Fronts, Rears and Surrounds -- as in, buy two sets for a truly enveloping experience. You can even use one W for the Center, or run no Center at all (if you like that sound), because the Maggies are unique in how they create a front soundstage. I have not read too many reviews on inexpensive or small speakers that stated "these speakers "disappeared" and I could hardly tell they were there." I read just exactly the opposite on the Maggies -- including the MMG W. And especially their MMG C. That curved front is there for a reason.


I'm not an expert, nor even a fan, yet. But you really have to look very hard to find negative comments on the Magnepan designs. And believe me -- I've looked. The decision for me came down to floorspace. I was willing to spend far more, but not if it meant taking up too much real estate. The price didn't hurt, but it wasn't the driving issue.


Most other wall-mounted designs I read about basically said "OK. You can mount these on the wall -- but I wouldn't want to because it greatly affects the listening enjoyment in a negative way." One review on the MMG said "You wouldn't expect standing up and walking past a wall-mounted speaker -- especially a planar design -- to still sound good. After all, there's nothing behind them. But that design is the point -- sound emanates everywhere, from front and back -- so moving across the soundstage doesn't destroy the effect. Unlike boxed enclosures."

The *key* question is: "Do you want your speakers to disappear or do you want them to be "point sources" that project precise imaging? I can tell you that sound recording engineers absolutely do *not* use bipolar/multi-polar speakers in the recording process. They use mono-polar "point-sources" as their references. If your goal is to reproduce the recording engineer's experience, then point source, (monopoles) is your best bet to do it.


Of course, if your goal is to reproduce something that is *pleasing* to you, irrespective of it's accuracy to the original, then the Maggie's, or any other multi-polar speaker is just fine. Many people find their presentation "pleasing". Just don't expect it to be an "accurate" representation of the original sound.


Craig
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeC /forum/post/14339375


yup, I have a 503. I was going to upgrade it and wasn't sure if I needed to do that sooner than I thought. From Guy's post (more on that in a minute) it sounds like it will do for now and then I'll go from there, when I would technically know more about what i'm working with here.


Do you use your 503 to run your maggies?

I'm waiting on them. I'll try the 503 but pretty sure I'll want more juice. Also trying to figure out what to do for low end. I have a pretty nice IB setup for my HT rig and while the maggies will be in the same room until the home office is ready, they will be 2 different systems.


I'm thinking I might build 2 smallish boxes and put a single 10" in each, get one of the PE 70 watt plate amps and call it a day. I'm planning an IB once I get moved into the home office, but, that's a year down the road.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/14340180


Of course, if your goal is to reproduce something that is *pleasing* to you, irrespective of it's accuracy to the original, then the Maggie's, or any other multi-polar speaker is just fine. Many people find their presentation "pleasing". Just don't expect it to be an "accurate" representation of the original sound.


Craig

Well, all I can say is a heard a pair of the early (full sized) Maggies back around 1978ish and I haven't yet heard a more accurate "presentation" of individual instruments. For instance, a flute sounded like a flute was being played live in the room ... it was quite spooky and almost impossible to describe.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged /forum/post/14340975


Well, all I can say is a heard a pair of the early (full sized) Maggies back around 1978ish and I haven't yet heard a more accurate "presentation" of individual instruments. For instance, a flute sounded like a flute was being played live in the room ... it was quite spooky and almost impossible to describe.

That's commonly referred to as Maggie Magic...it's very seductive
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeC /forum/post/14339393


Either way, I have a feeling I just opened the door to yet another expensive hobby.

That reminds me of another thread I started ages ago...

"The Danger of Running Out of Things to Replace".


Wait until you start pricing...

Subwoofers

Universal Remotes

Consoles

Amps

Pre-Amps

New Receivers

Switchers

Rears

Surrounds

Stands for everything

Cables

Cabling Supports

Equalizers

... you can get really carried away!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci /forum/post/14342180


Do those of you with the MMG W feel you are getting Maggie Magic

Probably not in the way you mean. I haven't received mine, yet.


I'm just looking for a wall-mounted speaker I can live with. I'd rather have two chairs on the floor that guests can sit in than speakers that require two or three feet of distance from the wall (meaning, most all of the bigger Magnepans, yes?).


If Magnepan would give us some clue of how to set things up, it would help. But they basically say "Here are our speakers -- good luck!" No opinions on Receivers, none on Amplifiers, none to speak of on positioning.
 

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Did you get the $20 optional mounting rig? I guess it's so you can find the best placement without drilling a bunch of holes in the walls.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Owen /forum/post/14352877


If Magnepan would give us some clue of how to set things up, it would help. But they basically say "Here are our speakers -- good luck!" No opinions on Receivers, none on Amplifiers, none to speak of on positioning.

If I recall correctly the Maggies are pretty benign as far as amp requirements go. I would think that the MMG-W's with their single planar driver would present an almost purely resistive load. Just make sure that the amp supports 4 Ohm loads well and has enough power to hit your desired SPLs and you're good to go.


The manuals seem to have as much or more positioning info as any other speaker.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci /forum/post/14353644


Did you get the $20 optional mounting rig? I guess it's so you can find the best placement without drilling a bunch of holes in the walls.

I did. But the pricing they quote is a bit of a surprise.

$18 for the Temporary Mount Kit.

$24 to ship them. IN ADDITION to the $24 fee for shipping the Maggies.

And the box is barely 18" long x 4" x 4".

Seems a steep price.


That puts your investment in trying these at about...

$30 if you return them

$18 for an unreturnable Kit.

$24 for shipping the Maggies.

$24 for shipping the Kit.

And your return Shipping -- let's assume $39 at a minimum.

$126 if you return them -- for trying $325 speakers.


Yowza!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Owen /forum/post/14379857


I did. But the pricing they quote is a bit of a surprise.

$18 for the Temporary Mount Kit.

$24 to ship them. IN ADDITION to the $24 fee for shipping the Maggies.

And the box is barely 18" long x 4" x 4".

Seems a steep price.


That puts your investment in trying these at about...

$30 if you return them

$18 for an unreturnable Kit.

$24 for shipping the Maggies.

$24 for shipping the Kit.

And your return Shipping -- let's assume $39 at a minimum.

$126 if you return them -- for trying $325 speakers.


Yowza!!

Please ignore my post...

I re-checked their Invoice.

They only charged $24 Total Shipping -- but listed it twice on their Invoice.


My mistake. I don't want to be unfair to Magnepan. It was $18 standard shipping on the speakers, plus $6 on the install kit. And they expedited the delivery for free because they lost my first order.
 
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