[aerobson]

Ok, here's the story. I have had my Sony 65" RPTV (KP65WS500) for about 13 months now. I started to get the dreaded Sony flicker a few weeks ago. I did some research and found it was a known problem and not really a big deal to get fixed. I called the service center and had the service guy out. He checked it out and agreed that the CRT's needed to be replaced. About 10 days later my CRT's arrived and I had the service guy come back to install the new tubes. He brought another tech with him because he said it was a 4 hour job with two people. After looking at the TV again, it was deteremined that it was the red CRT that needed to be replaced. They said they only liked to replace the flickering CRT, not necessarily all of them. After a little questioning from me, they started the job. It took 10min for them to replace the CRT. They calibrated the set through the service menu. The flicker stopped, but I noticed a "red shadow" on the left-hand side of the TV. The techs couldn't really see it, but they messed with the convergence for a while longer then left. The red permeated the left side of the TV and I decided I couldn't live with it. I called the service center and had the tech come back out today. He came back and looked at the TV for a while. Finally, after I convinced him it was not just me, he checked the convergence again. It was off a little. After re-doing the convergence, the red on the left-hand side was a little better, but still visible. He finally took the front off the TV and started to adjust the gain and focus knobs of the red CRT. After some fiddling he got the picture a litle better. He tried to tell me the problem wasn't there any longer and that there is always a little difference in the color across the screen of an RPTV. He left and I decided the picture was a little better. This evening I sat down and watched a movie. I noticed in some frames that are completely black (cut-aways) that there are red lines across the screen evenly spaced about 3" apart and slightly curved towards the middle of the screen. The black also has a slightly reddish tint.


Sorry for the long description, but I figure I may as well cover the whole story. Now, my question is this, would changing just the red CRT cause some of these issues? I am convinced that the red CRT is brighter than the 13 month old green and blue CRTs. The tech said it should not be an issue. He said there is not really a brightness difference between older and newer CRTs. I have no experience with these things. If there are any experienced repair techs or ISF calibrators, I'd appreciate your opinions. I don't think I'm going to be able to live with the set as it is now. The picture is not bad, but I'm a perfectionist and don't really like having things that aren't perfect, especially $3,000 things. Should I have the guys come back again and insist they replace the green and blue CRTs? Would a professional calibration correct some of these things? I'd hate to pay someone hundreds of dollars when the service calls are still covered by my extended warranty. Your thoughts are welcomed. Thanks.

 

[jsaliga]

I would insist they replace all three tubes. Depending on how you use your set and how many hours are on the tubes you could have some phosphor wear on your blue and green tubes. With a new red tube and worn green and blue achieving good colorimetry could be a problem. Did the tech set the G2 on the red tube after installing it? He probably should have checked G2 on the tubes that were not replaced as well. This should require the use of a voltmeter.


I'd get them back out to replace the green and blue tubes, redo the G2 adjustments, and do a complete geometry and convergence setup for you.


--Jerome

 

[rexbo]

No the changing of one crt in itself did not cause the issue.


Your just seeing the red crt "retrace" lines... The new red crt was not adjusted properly, but its easy to fix


Quote...


"This evening I sat down and watched a movie. I noticed in some frames that are completely black (cut-aways) that there are red lines across the screen evenly spaced about 3" apart and slightly curved towards the middle of the screen. The black also has a slightly reddish tint."


The tech left your red G2 screen voltage adjustment to high !!!!!


"He finally took the front off the TV and started to adjust the gain and focus knobs of the red CRT"


You need to access the red "gain" control as you call it and turn it very slowly counterclockwise/left until those dissappear (but no further). This tunning needs to be performed in a dark room with the tv on a blank input (viewing what should be a perfectly black screen).


Make sure your on the set of controls labled "screen" not "Focus" and also make sure your on the red control not blue/green (look for small "r").


Remember turn it only enough to make the red retrace line dissappear


PS: you could call the tech back of course if your not comforatable with the procedure


Good luck and keep us posted

 

[aerobson]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not uncomfortable making the changes myself, but I don't really have any experience with these changes. I was watching the tech while he was making some initial adjustments to see what was involved. It doesn't look too difficult.


A couple of questions...


Is the G2 screen voltage the same as the "gain?"


If I dial down the red G2 screen voltage, will that make the "red shadow" (that's the best description I can think of) come back?


jsaliga-The 2 techs that made the initial CRT change never made any measurements with a voltmeter. You say that the blue and green CRTs could have some phosphor wear, but rexbo says it shouldn't be an issue. I'm just looking to get the TV back to how it was before the flickering started. Should I start by adjusting the red G2 and see where that gets me? I guess that's where I'll start. I'll report back if I have other problems.

 

[jsaliga]

We're talking about different issues. My comment regarding phosphor wear has more to do with achieving proper color balance. If you have an easily visible wear pattern on your green and blue tubes then it is better to replace the tubes as a set so the phosphors wear together as a set. If these wear patterns are not visible then it really doesn't matter.


Seeing retrace lines is indicative of the G2 (master brightness) being not properly adjusted for that tube. Each set has it's own procedure for adjusting G2, and can usually be found in the service manual. Most of my experience is with CRT front projectors, but CRT RPTVs have essentially the same requirement.


--Jerome

 

[rexbo]

"Is the G2 screen voltage the same as the "gain?""


Yes. problably guessing thats what the tech meant


"If I dial down the red G2 screen voltage, will that make the "red shadow" (that's the best description I can think of) come back?"


No, just the oppisite it will make the red lines and red shadow disappear


"The 2 techs that made the initial CRT change never made any measurements with a voltmeter"


A voltmeter (although prefered for seting G2 level) is not required, the Sony service menu states to adjust G2 downward until retrace lines are gone then stop


"Should I start by adjusting the red G2 and see where that gets me?"


Yes, that will solve your problem....

 

[aerobson]

OK, here's an update. I took off the front panel of my TV and made the adjustments to the red G2 screen voltage. The red retrace lines are now gone and the blacks look black again, so that issue is solved.


I still have the red permeating the left 1/3 of the screen. When I'm watching a movie (or any source) I see an area on the left hand side that is a little more red than the rest of the screen. Sky blue shots look a little purple, faces look a little more red, and whites have a pink tint. Is it possible that I got a bad red CRT? I understand that there will be a little variation in colors across the screen, but it was never this bad in the first 13 months I owned the TV. As I stated in my initial post, I've already had a tech out once to try to troubleshoot the issue. He was not too helpful. He's been to my house 3 times total now. He's a nice guy, but nice isn't fixing my TV the way I think it should. I'd hate to call again for the same issue just to have the same tech come out and tell me my screen looks normal again. Is there some way to check the CRTs to see if the red is bad or if the blue and green should be replaced due to phosphor burn? The tech that has worked on my TV has never measured anything. Is there something that is measureable that might show where the problem is?


Thanks again for the help.

 

[rexbo]

"I understand that there will be a little variation in colors across the screen, but it was never this bad in the first 13 months I owned the TV."


I thiink you basically answered your own question. The red crt being on that side will cause that side to be "more red" than anywhere else. All RPTV's suffer from this to a certain extent.


If yours is worse than before the crt swap the alignment of the crt/lenses assembly may be off. Its also pssible that your greyscale is off at the higher light levels. Do you have access to "AVIA" or "Video Essentials" it would be intresting to see if your lighter greys-whites have a red tint to them. You may need to adjust the red cut/drives (maybe just maybe)


Its also possible that "lense stripping" could help you a great deal. Do a search here on that and take a look. With the back panel off your set you could easily experiment with a sheet of plack construstion paper. The basic idea is to block of the path of some of the red light/beam from dispersing to the side.

 

[aerobson]

Looks like I may try the lense stripping that you suggested, rexbo. After a little research here on AVS, it doesn't look like it is too difficult. Let me see if I can summarize the process. Anyone familiar with this process, please tell me if I'm wrong or if there is something I should do differently.


Since I'm seeing too much red on the left, I'm going to strip the red lense on the side closest to the green CRT. I saw suggestions for opaque tape, but also see that black electrical tape works well too. Looks like 1/2" of tape on the lense should be enough to correct my problem. I'm guessing I should be careful not to get any adhesive on the lense itself, so I'll probably double up the tape so the sticky sides are together in the area that covers the lense.


I'm also leaning towards finding an ISF calibrator in my area. Anyone have any suggestions about where to find someone in the SE MI area?

 

[aerobson]

Thanks for the help, rexbo and jsaliga. I tried the lense stripping that rexbo suggested and it worked great. I first tried plain black electrical tape, but I found the next day that the tape had sagged over the lense causing a big dark area on the screen. As a more permanent fix, I fabricated a custom cover out of cardboard and electrical tape. It took a little longer to do right, but in the end, the custom curved piece I created worked great. No more red push. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Razzle-D]

aerobson, I too have a Sony 65" that developed the problem. As it was told to me, ALL THREE CRT GUNS should be replaced per Sony's instructions. This was done for me, and the problem is totally gone.


Now, were the guns shipped to you or to your service people? If they were shipped to them, I find it convenient that they only want to replace one of the guns. What will they do with the extra two? Mmmmmm.


13 months on a set of guns is a decent amount of time, assuming it gets used daily (mine doesn't). I would demand that all three are replaced and THEN go through any additional troubleshooting (red push, etc.).

 

[jsaliga]

I'm not sure I agree that 13 months on a set of tubes is decent. If the set is properly adjusted and the tubes are not run hot, then a set of tubes should last somewhere between 6,000 and 8,000 hours. If you ran the set for 6 hours per day, every day of the week, then you would log about 2,100 hours per year on the tubes.


Of course, if you run your set in torch mode you'll get considerably less than that.


--Jerome

 

[aerobson]

The tubes were sent to me. I had all three, but the techs didn't feel it needed it. They took the blue and green tubes and told me they sent them back to the manufacturer (yeah, right). To fix the flickering problem, all I needed was the red CRT. The red push developed afterwards. I am like you Razzle-D and thought the blue and green should be changed at the same time. The techs feelings were the more you change in a decent set-up, the more oportunity there is to throw something else out of whack. I agreed with them that my picture was pretty good, so they just did the one tube. I'm guessing I've got about 1000 hours on my old tubes. I use the set quite heavily on weekends, but I can go days without watching anything downstairs. I think the lense stripping I did myself is a good enough fix. I did plenty of research before doing it. It looks like lense stripping is something that is regularly done during the course of a professional calibration, so I decided it was something I could try. Now that I have done it, I am happy with the results. I'd prefer 3 new tubes, but at the picture settings I use (very dim, completely dark viewing environment) I think the picture is now perfect. I know it could be better with a professional calibration, but I don't have the funds at the moment. I have the 4 year extended warranty so I feel comfortable that any future problems can still be addressed should they arise.

 

[rexbo]

Happy to hear that it worked out for ya!